FE 1/8th scale make it a legal class or not

[Paul Pachmayer]

Hey Guys,

but I don't think that Pauls boat would comply entirely with those rules but I think his hull is good enough to be able to run. As Kelly stated that would be an example of the bare min.

Hey now, I think I did a little better than bare minimum. I painted my hull with rattle cans, it's as close as I could get it with what's out there. I wouldn't expect every guy that wanted to build an 1/8th scale to have access to a body shop or pony up 350 to 600 bills for a paint job. Being off a shade or two, so what, close enough. I really need exhaust stacks on my boat, I "could" buy them OR make a set that aren't exactly scale but would get the idea across. Again, close enough.

Like what's been said before, give it your best effort and it should fly.

Paul.

 

[brooks93]

Paul not dogging your 1/8th just saying that is the min that is required.

add exhaust and now your a above min.. LOL

 

[Paul Pachmayer]

Hi Garry,

The 10th scale thing you guys are doing is cool but I like the bigger boats with massive HP. My personal goal is mid 60s out of my Atlas, I don't think I'd get the same thrill out of running the boat like you guys are doing in RCU.

Paul.

 

[Paul Pachmayer]

Hey Kelly,

Paul not dogging your 1/8th just saying that is the min that is required.

I know that. That's why I put the smiley after the sentance. Now crawl back in your hole before I fire you, lol.

Paul.

 

[brooks93]

ok I am sorry.. your 1/8th is a great sport boat.. or I mean.. :unsure: it marked the start line and turn 3 better then any boat I have seen

 

[Paul Pachmayer]

Hey Kelly,

[SIZE=30pt]BITE ME!!!![/SIZE]lol

Paul.

 

[Al Waters]

Well, you have your extremes in opinions. Kelly at one end and Paul at the other end. Now you need someone in between....... Like a Ken or Terry.

Scale is not for the faint at heart. Its for someone who has 12 FE boats and money to burn or someone willing to race 4 of those 12 boats and sell the others. Its work and its a lot of time. If you are taking the point of view of do we have to do this, or do we have to do that to the boat, or is it going to cost this, you shouldnt be getting into the class. You have to start out strict and then as time goes by, if you lighten up a bit, that will be okay. If you start out lightening up a bit, you will eventually have the sport class. Do it correctly right out of the box. If it takes off, it takes off. If it doesnt it doesnt. Its about integrity of the looks of the hull. Duplicating the real thing. That is the attention getter.

Paul mentioned that his boat looks correct from 10 feet. Where did 10 feet come from? Concourse is 6 feet. To measure a boat for compliance is right on top the boat. (Paul, you are fun to bust chops with. You da man)

If people are concerned about the look of a boat and how maticulate it needs to be, the paint codes, decals, etc., why not then build an easy boat.

Here is a test.

How many of you know what the St. Regis, Miss Houston (red and blue version), Miss Burien, Discount Golf, U-4 (no name), Evans Marina, Miss U.S., 1986 U-100 Boat, and Hawaii Kai look like? These are very simple looking Scale boats.

Not all boats have to look like the Elam, or Camel Smokin Joe.

Paul is correct that he has seen boats that were questionable and allowed to run. I have seen them also.

Your question to answer be will be do you want another FE big boat class, or do you want to make it special. Its a tough call because your boats will come from a vast area.

Kelly has already shown the first signs of the direction you want scale to go by saying that Paul's Atlas met the minumum.

Ken asked about the Proboat Bud and LLamar. They are 1/8th in length but the look is out of whack because it is designed to house a gas motor. I think the cowl is off also due to the exhaust. ....and sport boats in nitro can not have riding shoes but if they came on a real boat, they must be on the scale boat.

Some people are getting mixed up beteen scale and sport. All scale boats are sport boats but not all sport boats are scale boats. For example. The Circus canard can run in scale and sport (nitro). Take away the paint scheme, and the boat can not run in either class. The hull does not meet the sport hull specs.

............................... isnt this fun.................

Al Waters

NAMBA Vice President

NAMBA Scale Unlimited Chairman

 

[Don Ferrette]

Scale is not for the faint at heart. Its for someone who has 12 FE boats and money to burn or someone willing to race 4 of those 12 boats and sell the others. Its work and its a lot of time. If you are taking the point of view of do we have to do this, or do we have to do that to the boat, or is it going to cost this, you shouldnt be getting into the class. You have to start out strict and then as time goes by, if you lighten up a bit, that will be okay. If you start out lightening up a bit, you will eventually have the sport class. Do it correctly right out of the box. If it takes off, it takes off. If it doesnt it doesnt. Its about ntegrity of the looks of the hull. Duplicating the real thing. That is the attention getter....Al Waters

NAMBA Vice President

NAMBA Scale Unlimited Chairman

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Exactly, couldn't have said it better myself. The beauty of 1/8th scale is accurately duplicating the real thing. When spectators come to the races it's the scale boats they ooh & ahh over. Keep the rules tight or it will just be a sport class like Al said.

 

[Dennis Whitt]

May I ? pauly Mon,Dont be so hard on your self .When you and I started this thing we were more just looking for some good lookin 32 cell hydros.Who'd a thought it would go this far.I absolutly agree with Al and Don.We should maintane the highest standards for this class and maintain the traditions that have been held by nitro 8th.The intent of this class is to emulate full scale unlimited hydro racing period.

If your not ready to make that kind of commitment go race Q/S sport hydro or what ever they are calling it these days LOL !!!

I still think having a minimum weight is a good idea.Real hydros have a large varience in lengths witch transmits to big weight advantages or disadvantages i.e.a newer version of a decked out turbine boat is gonna weigh more than a much shorter version of a round nose or pickle fork with no tale feathers.

Maybe a minimum weight is the answer.Guys ?Any thoughts.

 

[Al Waters]

I have never thought about minimum weight. Now a days, the lighter the boat, the tougher it is to keep it on the water in race conditions. Plus the hull does not last as long in terms of holding its shape.

More weight and some people may have a difficult time getting their boats to run if they dont understand props or batteries.

We have talked a lot about this subject and some very good ideas have come because of it. Kelly's suggestion of taking the existing scale unlimited rules and changing the power requirements seems like the simplest way to go.

Then as time goes by or if you can forsee the hangups, refine the rules to adapt more to FE. Number of heats to qualify, etc.

It will still come down to whoever the point man (people) is (are) in FE Scale determining how compliant a hull will be.

Troy does it at RCU and we have a three person committee who does it where we run. And I do it for the nitro nationals.

Anybody ready to take on the heat?

Al Waters

NAMBA Vice President

NAMBA Scale Unlimited Chairman

 

[brooks93]

Al and Don.. very good point.. I would like to follow the nitro rules to a T except for power and number of heats. other then that everything is the same. That way if anyone has a question the nitro and FE guys should have the same answer

I don't see a need for min weight.. if its to lite you will have a very hard time keeping it on the water.. and you will have a weaker hull that will deform under load. Don't know about you but, I am not risking that much money in time and equipment to save a couple of oz's.

Tight is right.. like Al said we can relax a bit after everyone gets on the same page

 

[K.R.Joye]

Al and Don.. very good point.. I would like to follow the nitro rules to a T except for power and number of heats.  other then that everything is the same.  Tight is right.. like Al said we can relax a bit after everyone gets on the same page

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T-POWER

I'm in total agreement with T Power requirements

DRIVE DOG RULE?

One more item everyone keeps forgeting is the NAMBA Nitro drive dog rule. The Mi Cup rules eliminated the drive rule but have strictly enforced the thru bottom strut mounting concept. (Unless the original hull design ditates another type of outdrive or strut mounting)

Lets face it with thru bottom struts your limited to the length the shaft can extend out making the drive dog rule irrelevent. The MC6 Mi Cup rules have been voted on and posted before the NATS.

I would think the MC6 1/8 Scale Rules(modified NAMBA Nitro) would be a good starting point for discussion. In addition MMEU is the only club that has successfully run FE 1/8 for the last 2 seasons. I would think MMEU should be directly involved in formulating a NAMBA FE 1/8 Rule set. Kellys doing a great job stepping up to the plate but we need a core group of 1/8 Scale racers to help him get this stuff hammered out properly.

MIN WEIGHT RULE?

I'll admit a having a Min weight rule would afffect my setup on the Squire. With the lower HP Brushed setup i'm successfully running light-weight is a key advantage. If i had to add weight my setup it would be less competitive. A Min weight requirement rule would pretty much force everyone into i higher dollar BL setup limiting everyone to 1 or 2 Motor/ESC choices. I think this would be counter productive for Nitro crossover Racers and NewBees to FE 1/8 in general.

MC6 1/8 Scale Rules

All Per NAMBA 1/8 Scale with the following exceptions

Rule #1-4 untouched

Rule #5 untouched with the exception Drivers or Cockpits should minimumly appear per latest NAMBA FE Offshore driver and appearence stds.(single driver)

Rule #7 DELETE (tuned Pipe conceal)

Rule #8 DELETE (drive dog rule)

Because of MC6 timing and manpower limitations we didn't get into the MASTER HULL Roster and CONCOURS JUDGING formalities. However MMEU felt these 2 areas are worth looking at and adopting. BTW Eddie H. has been doing a great job on RR handling the Hull Roster for FE. Of course this process would be as little more envolved if the NAMBA ROSTER Rule is adopted. A NAMBA adopted standardized 1/8th Judging sheet would take care of CONCOURS. I would be willing to help with both of these items.

KRJoye(my 10.5 cents)

 

[Paul Pachmayer]

Hey Guys,

Al,

  Well, you have your extremes in opinions. Kelly at one end and Paul at the other end. Now you need someone in between

Actually, we are on the same page although at times it may not seem like it.

Paul mentioned that his boat looks correct from 10 feet. Where did 10 feet come from? Concourse is 6 feet.

I pulled that one from my....well, you know where. lol I had no clue 1/8th was from 6 feet, with that in mind, my boat looks great from 6 feet! hehe :lol:

and Hawaii Kai look like? These are very simple looking Scale boats.

The Kai! Don't know if I'd put that one in the easy arena. That has some wacky paint codes. The Atlas was a bit of a PITA to paint but I did get all the stripes and graphic ares the right size.

  May I ? pauly Mon,Dont be so hard on your self .

I'm not really, I like my boat as is. (other than exhaust details) When I have a pic of the real deal next to my boat she looks right. I would vote no on a minimum weight rule.

I say stick with the nitro 1/8th scale rules with the addition of T power for FE.

Paul.

 

[K.R.Joye]

I went to the MADISON Movie premere in Mi yesturday. Excellent movie BTW hard to find a dry eye in the place great ending!

The original KAI was there on display ALs corrrect not a hard one to do paint wise but what do you do for the bare aluminum bottom?

The local Nitro Club had some pristine 1/8th scale shovels on display, what and eye opener. Great examples of how the detail can be taken to Nth degree. We have a few FEs that would come close but i still don't think were quite to that level yet. Not to say we(FE) have to go there but for CONCOURS one upping can get extreme.

 

[Kevin Whitehead]

BTW Eddie H. has been doing a great job on RR handling the Hull Roster for FE. Of course this process would be as little more envolved if the NAMBA ROSTER Rule is adopted.

In what way? The work is already done. The only time more work is needed on the Scale Unlimiteds Master Hull Roster, is if an Unlimited, either from the past (that was left out of the roster) or a new one entering competition in the future, needs to be added.

If the Scale Unlimited guys are keeping the roster up-to-date already, just use it for reference. That is so long as they don't mind.

I get the impression that some folks think the Scale Unlimited guys register specific hulls to individuals, so that duplicates are not built. I don't think that's true.

There is nothing in the Scale Unlimiteds portion of the rulebook that prevents a racer from running whichever boat he or she likes, no matter how many others have the same model.

KW

 

[AlanN]

I really like the guidance from Al and agree with Kelly/Paul/Ken/Kevin.

I'll just sit back and read and learn.

 

[Al Waters]

Looks like we are really coming together (I hope that I can say we meaning including me).

Here is something that I think will help out some.

1.RCU in Washington has a lot of members and allow only one boat of that year to be registered. They have draws for registration and you must build that boat within a certain time, pay to retain the registration, and race the boat a minimum number of times to keep the registration. That system works very well for them.

2. In my area, we do not have the popularity that RCU does so we do not follow as strict a plan.

3. We both use almost the exact same Master Hull Roster. Differences are minimal. They have been really helpful to me over the years in staying on top of all of the changing names of the boats.

4. If you go to the NAMBA web site and open the MHR, you will see a Contacts page, and a measuring guideline page followed by a listing of all of the boats that can be made.

5. If you go to my districts web site ( www.namba19.com ), and go to the rules page, you see the NAMBA Scale Unlimited rules followed by our particular districts scale rules not to be confused with others districts scale rules followed by our Unlimited Lights rules. (Please dont ask about Lights yet).

These district scale rules may or may not be of help to you. Food for thought. Here is one we adopted from RCU. The boat that gets taken out as a result of a called DQ gets fourth place points. Its not in the NAMBA rules but we, and RCU use it.

Next.........................

Al Waters

NAMBA Vice President

NAMBA Scale Unlimited Chairman

 

[Dennis Whitt]

Hey Kevin,The reason that we started a hull reg.was as a courtacy to help guys decide what to build.Nobody wants to show up to a race with two of the same boats.It doesnt meen that you would get thrown in the water fot not adhering to it.All that we care is that you build her pretty and show up to the race to have fun.

 

[Al Waters]

Hey Kelly,

Your DVD is in the mail..........let me know what you think......... feel free to burn and distribute as you wish.

Al Waters

NAMBA Vice President

NAMBA Scale Unlimited Chairman

 

[brooks93]

Thanks Al.. I will let you know