FE 1/8th scale make it a legal class or not

[Randy Naylor]

which part my brain or 1/16 and 1/10th.. lol

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The part that said NO

 

[brooks93]

Kelly can handle a bit of prodding

sure glad that wasn't probing.. LMAO

 

[Kevin Whitehead]

If 1/16th and 1/10th would be so popular, then prove it.

Start another thread on 1/16th and another on 1/10th and let's see what kind of popular support they would have.

1/8th Has proven it is popular. No doubt.

The idea that racers racing in N2 Sport, O Sport, or Q Sport hydro would want to go Scale is only a theory.

I think that small boats like those are too small of a working surface to do the fine artwork that is the lure of the 1/8 Scale Unlimited.

Besides, the performance of 1/16th size hydros (built to scale specifications) will absolutely suck under real race conditions.

KW

 

[Randy Naylor]

If 1/16th and 1/10th would be so popular, then prove it.
Start another thread on 1/16th and another on 1/10th and let's see what kind of popular support they would have. 

1/8th Has proven it is popular. No doubt.

The idea that racers racing in N2 Sport, O Sport, or Q Sport hydro would want to go Scale is only a theory.

I think that small boats like those are too small of a working surface to do the fine artwork that is the lure of the 1/8 Scale Unlimited.

Besides, the performance of 1/16th size hydros (built to scale specifications) will absolutely suck under real race conditions.

KW

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You have made some good points. But compair E 1/8 to E 1/10 and you are way off base E 1/10 all ready has a big following. And 1/16 Scale was around long befor you or I ran RC boats. Back then the 1/16 scale boats were little rockets.

I think that O.P.Q and S Sport Hydro should not become scale but should stay Sport classes.

I do not think I saw you runnig a 1/8 scale at the nats?

 

[Al Waters]

Don,

as I was reading all of the posts I was thinking of you and the Winston Eagle. Good thing you brought it up to everyone.

Which shows everyone. Not only is there Roger, but there is Don and many others who can help people with paint codes. It’s not that difficult.

I have the Hawaii Kai. Its pink to most people. Not really. Its Tropical Rose and Coral Mist. The U-8 is impossible to get in a vinyl graphic. So what do you do? You ask around. Roger had all of that info and made life easy for me.

Need to make all those pipes for the Allison and Rolls? There are some slick and easy ways.

The $5.00 you see for the MHR was there from back in the days when there was no Internet and a hard copy was mailed to you. Today, download and print from the NAMBA web site.

Kelly,

my suggestion would be to stay away from people locking in a boat. Many will sit on the shelf and never run. Odds of boats being duplicated will be rare. People don’t like having the same boat as the next guy. You are taking on an accounting nightmare.

Use that time and write FE Scale articles for the Prowash. You will reach out to more people.

On the photos of authenticity. The rule reads ,,,,,,, Photographs of the boat are an acceptable form of documentation.

That means that they are not required to build the boat but it helps if whoever is in charge of authenticating the boat has something to look at if he does not know what the boat looks like. The more proof the better. Only in concourse is a pic required.

............. Anyone familiar with the U-4. The boat that has no name that was blue and gold. I have seen 6 different paint jobs of that boat and they all matched the photo. And they were all painted wrong. Got the codes from Newton and now they will all be correct to race.

One other thing on boat choice............ here you go Don............

The Captrans boat with the engine cover was as it was on the trailer. The motor exposed was how it ran. Notice I said ran and not raced and I didn’t say qualify. That is important.

Remember the Elam Canard that crashed. It did not qualify nor race. But it is in the roster and can be built.

Now that there is such an interest in Scale boats, I have a suggestion.......... go to the NAMBA web site and read a few of the articles I have written in the Propwash. It discusses a lot of what we are talking about. It wasn’t of interest to you then...... but it will be now.

May 2004 page 2 and page 11

If you find these interesting,,,,,,,,,,,, you may want to read the other Propwash articles.

Al Waters

NAMBA Vice President

NAMBA Scale Unlimited Chairman

 

[Kevin Whitehead]

I do not think I saw you runnig a 1/8 scale at the nats?

And your point is?

KW

 

[brooks93]

E 1/10 and you are way off base E 1/10 all ready has a big following

In Namba?
Randy I wouldn't play that card. You know the I ran one and you didn't card.. It not right and not like you.. if you didn't see in one of Kevins post he is or will be building one.

Just because someone didn't run one doesn't make there opinion any less important or give the guys that did run a 1/8th scale the final word. We are better people then that.

I agree with what Kevin said about starting another thread.. if the supports there write it up.. I don't have the knowledge of all the class's to do it.. The only reason I am doing the 1/8th scale is because I don't have to reinvent the wheel just remove a little and add a litte.. thats the reason behind this thread to see what people want added for 1/8th and removed from 1/8th to make it FE.

seriously start another thread for n2, o, p, q, s scale hydro and see what people think. You might be on to something

 

[Randy Naylor]

I do not think I saw you runnig a 1/8 scale at the nats?

And your point is?

KW

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No point, I was asking a question. Kelly tells me you are building one and that answers my question. I might have read it before but not sure.

 

[Randy Naylor]

E 1/10 and you are way off base E 1/10 all ready has a big following

In Namba?

What does that matter, it is all about electric scale hydros running in the North America

Randy I wouldn't play that card. You know the I ran one and you didn't card.. It not right and not like you.. if you didn't see in one of Kevins post he is or will be building one.

Man you guys are touchy. Chill, I do not own a deck of cards. I do have respect for Kevin he has made some good points.

Just because someone didn't run one doesn't make there opinion any less important

No problem with that, we agree.

or give the guys that did run a 1/8th scale the final word.

He may not have the final word but a bigger intrest sence he has invested time and money.

We are better people then that.

That is not in question

I agree with what Kevin said about starting another thread.. if the supports there write it up.. I don't have the knowledge of all the class's to do it.. The only reason I am doing the 1/8th scale is because I don't have to reinvent the wheel just remove a little and add a litte.. thats the reason behind this thread to see what people want added for 1/8th and removed from 1/8th to make it FE.
seriously start another thread for n2, o, p, q, s scale hydro and see what people think. You might be on to something

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As I have stated before I do not want to change O, P, Q and S Sport Hydro in to Scale, Far from it. Scale is scale and Sport is Sport both need to be just that. I want to colaborate with you all to create a new well rounded FE scale set of classes that will be good for FE and help FE and Namba grow. I do not have any exact 1/16 or 1/10 scale boats in my stable, so it is for many people to come together. I guess that I see it as more than the little thing you see. I do not know it all, but have been around for a while and have seen APBA to NAMBA classes evolve. Do not take this wrong but if you do not want my help I will bug out. It is to me the right place the right time to make Scale and Sport what they should be not some hybred sport scale FE thing.

 

[K.R.Joye]

O'k guys i really don't understand why Rule #8 can't be excluded as done for the last 2 FE1/8 Mi Cup races. Any Nitro boats converted to electric would still be legal (without #8)so i don't see your point.

If the originators of FE 1/8 (MMEU) decide to submit a 1/8 NAMBA rules proposal thats how it would go....

The rule was created to keep the Nitro boats from over elongating the strut, if that be the case the boat won't look scale therefore making it a standout for possible disqualification. The rule is redundant and doesn't need to be there. If you want to open the doors to the Newbees and Nitro guys less is better. (This is precisely the reason why Gas is catching on so fast classes are more general and the rules are more simplified)KISS principle my 2 cents

BTW nobody has commented on the NAMBA CONCOURS rules. Do i take it that theres no objection and keep them in tact?

Kevin i can appreciate your comments being you are a hydro guy and possible future 1/8 owner.What we i don't want to see is a FE 1/8 group that thinks their S#iT doesn't stink. Its just another proposed class guys that could involve a little more cash outlay (like T Offshore) lets not get snouuty about it.

 

[brooks93]

The rule was created to keep the Nitro boats from over elongating the strut, if that be the case the boat won't look scale therefore making it a standout for possible disqualification. The rule is redundant and doesn't need to be there. If you want to open the doors to the Newbees and Nitro guys less is better.

I don't see how its redundent

"8. The number of props and rudders shall coincide with that of the original full sized unlimited

hydroplane.

9. Outdrive units and outdrive engine(s) are prohibited unless the full sized boat after which the

boat is being modeled had an outdrive or outdrive engine(s), in which case the model must

be configured like the full sized boat."

It doesn't say anything about how a strut should look or how scale it would need to be.. Only talks about the ones hanging off of the transom.

I would say leave it.. Whats it going to hurt.. A newbie isn't going to know any better and a nitro guy will be used to it already.

Ken where is your drive dog on your boat? I never really looked at it that close

 

[brooks93]

The rule was created to keep the Nitro boats from over elongating the strut, if that be the case the boat won't look scale therefore making it a standout for possible disqualification

I don't think that woudl be the reason for a DQ.

if it was all of us are DQ'd.. unless you run a straight shaft through a fixed strut and spin a 440/3 since thats probably about the scale size of the prop

 

[K.R.Joye]

I don't see how its redundent

"8. The number of props and rudders shall coincide with that of the original full sized unlimited

hydroplane.

9. Outdrive units and outdrive engine(s) are prohibited unless the full sized boat after which the

boat is being modeled had an outdrive or outdrive engine(s), in which case the model must

be configured like the full sized boat."

It doesn't say anything about how a strut should look or how scale it would need to be.. Only talks about the ones hanging off of the transom.

I would say leave it.. Whats it going to hurt.. A newbie isn't going to know any better and a nitro guy will be used to it already.

Ken where is your drive dog on your boat? I never really looked at it that close

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Well your going to be looking a lot at my transom at CAFE CUP once i get the driveline durability problem worked out that took me out of the NATS competition. LOL

Seriously the Miller and the PICO(Norms boat i'm doing) should fall within NAMBAs guidelines while the Squire is one drive dog longer. Theres no noticeable difference in performance unless you transom mount. C. Fine had setup problems when he changed from transom to thru bottom to be legal for MC6.

 

[Randy Naylor]

Ken, It appears that there is (To Some) more to scale than we (or I am) are use to. Once again I woke up thinking about what was said yesterday. We all have different opinions on what scale is. It is sorta confusing and makes me feel like I have got it all wrong. On one hand I like scale boats but do not care for some finer points, Like can of paint that I have payed for, know how to use, whare to get it and most of all works for me.

I have had mixed opinions on the drive dog rule many different times. When we were first talking about 1/8 scale and getting the nitro boys to convert It made sence to do it the same way as they do. My boat is set up with the drive dog correct for nitro. It has been a slight pain, each time I paint the boat it is in the way and hard to tape, I had problems with leaking. Now it only leaks when the boat sits still in the water.

Is it things that we just have to get use to?

 

[K.R.Joye]

I have had mixed opinions on the drive dog rule many different times. When we were first talking about 1/8 scale and getting the nitro boys to convert It made sence to do it the same way as they do. My boat is set up with the drive dog correct for nitro.

Is it things that we just have to get use to?

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You could be right Randy, just had a conversation with Kelly on the drive dog. It seams drive dogs come in all sorts of different sizes and lengths(custom) depending on the type and manufacturer. Were thinking of specifiying a max dimension aft of the transom to the prop instead. That would sort out confusion of that mistery distance. What do you guys think?

Ken Joye

 

[Randy Naylor]

I wish I could find my rule book so I could read the whole scale devision and have a little more undrestanding.

 

[Paul Pachmayer]

Hey Guys,

Require a driver and a couple of racers have some minor work to do. I don't get it. Why go through the trouble of modeling an Unlimited so closely, only to take the easy way out on that one detail?

Kevin, I had planned on building the entire cockpit including a full bodied driver for the Atlas. (I had all the parts) The problem I ran into was it couldn't be done because the batteries and mototr sat under the driver area leaving no room. I elected to use just a drivers head because in all the pics I've seen of the real boat running that was all you saw, the drivers head.

If the originators of FE 1/8 (MMEU) decide to submit a 1/8 NAMBA rules proposal thats how it would go....

Ummm, I think there where 3 guys that "originated" or more to the point commited to build 1/8th scale boats. Dennis, Chris and myself. MMEU agreed to put it on the sceadule but I wouldn't say they where the originators.

Theres no noticeable difference in performance unless you transom mount.

Ken, I don't think it's about performance, it's about the "look". I agree with you that struts under the boat or on the transom really dont make a difference in the speed department.

C. Fine had setup problems when he changed from transom to thru bottom to be legal for MC6.

The problems weren't because of the strut location though. He never got the boat on the water before the Nats. There where other problems with the boat too but it wasn't strut related.

Here's my position and it will not change. Run the class per NAMBA Nitro 1/8th scale rules except for the power parameters. I will vote no to ANY other changes.

I will build my boats to IMPBA specs, they say the drive dog can't extend past the transom. I wan't my boats to comply with both Orgs, this way given the opportunity I can race either/or.

Paul.

 

[K.R.Joye]

If the originators of FE 1/8 (MMEU) decide to submit a 1/8 NAMBA rules proposal thats how it would go....

Ummm, I think there where 3 guys that "originated" or more to the point commited to build 1/8th scale boats. Dennis, Chris and myself. MMEU agreed to put it on the sceadule but I wouldn't say they where the originators.

I HAD ONE OF THE FIRST 1/8s RTR AND TESTING WHILE MOST WERE STILL BUILDING. O'K I'M NOT IN THE FDM `INSIDE CIRCLE' THAT MUST BE WHAT YOU MENT. I BELIEVE STEVE VASDEKIS WAS THE ONE TO GET THE 1/8 IDEA IN MOTION

Here's my position and it will not change. Run the class per NAMBA Nitro 1/8th scale rules except for the power parameters. I will vote no to ANY other changes.

I will build my boats to IMPBA specs, they say the drive dog can't extend past the transom. I wan't my boats to comply with both Orgs, this way given the opportunity I can race either/or.

IMPBA? (Why Bother) PLEASE EMAIL ME YOUR ARM SO I CAN START TWISTING. LOL. I'D HATE TO HAVE TO CANCEL OUT OUR VOTES.

KEN

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[AlanN]

Reagarding 1/16 leave it sport hydro.

1/8's being scale is what I believe to be the important issue.

The N O P and Q/S classes are sport for now and I would like to keep it that way...less bickering and more time to spend on the detail of one class.

 

[Dennis Whitt]

I HAD ONE OF THE FIRST 1/8s RTR AND TESTING WHILE MOST WERE STILL BUILDING. O'K I'M NOT IN THE FDM `INSIDE CIRCLE' THAT MUST BE WHAT YOU MENT. I BELIEVE STEVE VASDEKIS WAS THE ONE TO GET THE 1/8 IDEA IN MOTION

Yes Ken you did and I am glad yoy jumped in with both feet now owning 2 teams.

Steve did post on Rumrunner the 8th idea after my call to him.anyways I resent that you feel that there exist this dark brotherhood of the Fines.Its nonsense.I have always been very forthcomming with any imfo I have regarding set ups and combos.MMEU comes B4 Fine design.I remember tapping everyone in our club on the shoulder and asking if they needed anything since i had brushless sets I wasnt using.If there is indeed a circle that is what it is about.That being said.

The existing 8th scale rules have been succesfull and I dont intend to change anything....period.