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Great looking boat Joe, I'm looking forward to seeing your 45 and FE versions. Keep up the good work
Phantom & Phantom II
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Chris Wood
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because we are right handed.. easier to start for use. that's all
JOEBISHOP
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Hey Guys
Here is a first look at the PHANTOM II A1/2A ELITE boat. Although being essentially the same boat, the ULTRA and ELITE have distinctly different looks. The ULTRA is the best I can do with aerodynamics and hydrodynamics and still retain the look of the PHANTOM. The ELITE is the much more minimalist look and approach. I designed the ELITE to hopefully interest racers that go for the minimalist approach even though I personally like the ULTRA design.
OK, go a head and ask me "what are the fins on the ELITE's cowl for"? No they are not for looks or cosmetics. As time goes on, you will find that I do very little to enhance cosmetic appeal. I believe every shape and appendage should serve a purpose. Anyway, the fins are water deflectors to prevent water from being sprayed into the carburetor. Nothing can completely guarantee that water won't get in the card but I think the fins will definitely help.
I am going to weigh the two boats with just wood parts and sponson booms only and let you Guys know what is the weight savings gained by the minimalist design of the ELITE over the ULTRA. When you next see these two boats, they will be in color and decals, completely rigged out and finished. After photographing them, they will be carefully boxed up and sent on their way to Tennessee. Ken Olvis will test the boats, make adjustments and help me with any possible changes. Ken will campaign the two boats at races around the South Eastern part of the United States. Once I am satisfied with the boats speed, turning characteristics and handling, I will offer the kits of both boats for sell.
Hey Guys, I would really like your comments on the boats! If you like one or both of the boats, tell me what you like the most or is your favorite feature. If you don't like either one just say so but do us all a favor and don't feel compelled to be nasty about it. If you don't like the boats, tell me why or make suggestions for change. I know a lot of people is reading and following this forum but not commenting. Well, jump in and give me your two cents, LOL!
Years ago, when I first designed the PHANTOM, I didn't care who liked it! It was for me and me alone! It was my idea of the perfect outrigger hydro. It took me months of carrying a sketch pad around and constantly sketching out ideas that popped into my mind. Finally, at two o'clock in the morning, I woke up one night, grabbed my sketch pad (that was lying on my night stand) and drew the shape that would become the PHANTOM. Today, things are different, I am not a young man any more and my desire to actively race is not there. My desire to design and create is still very strong. SSOOOO with that said, I now design for you guys and your input is very valuable to me. Joe
Here is a first look at the PHANTOM II A1/2A ELITE boat. Although being essentially the same boat, the ULTRA and ELITE have distinctly different looks. The ULTRA is the best I can do with aerodynamics and hydrodynamics and still retain the look of the PHANTOM. The ELITE is the much more minimalist look and approach. I designed the ELITE to hopefully interest racers that go for the minimalist approach even though I personally like the ULTRA design.
OK, go a head and ask me "what are the fins on the ELITE's cowl for"? No they are not for looks or cosmetics. As time goes on, you will find that I do very little to enhance cosmetic appeal. I believe every shape and appendage should serve a purpose. Anyway, the fins are water deflectors to prevent water from being sprayed into the carburetor. Nothing can completely guarantee that water won't get in the card but I think the fins will definitely help.
I am going to weigh the two boats with just wood parts and sponson booms only and let you Guys know what is the weight savings gained by the minimalist design of the ELITE over the ULTRA. When you next see these two boats, they will be in color and decals, completely rigged out and finished. After photographing them, they will be carefully boxed up and sent on their way to Tennessee. Ken Olvis will test the boats, make adjustments and help me with any possible changes. Ken will campaign the two boats at races around the South Eastern part of the United States. Once I am satisfied with the boats speed, turning characteristics and handling, I will offer the kits of both boats for sell.
Hey Guys, I would really like your comments on the boats! If you like one or both of the boats, tell me what you like the most or is your favorite feature. If you don't like either one just say so but do us all a favor and don't feel compelled to be nasty about it. If you don't like the boats, tell me why or make suggestions for change. I know a lot of people is reading and following this forum but not commenting. Well, jump in and give me your two cents, LOL!
Years ago, when I first designed the PHANTOM, I didn't care who liked it! It was for me and me alone! It was my idea of the perfect outrigger hydro. It took me months of carrying a sketch pad around and constantly sketching out ideas that popped into my mind. Finally, at two o'clock in the morning, I woke up one night, grabbed my sketch pad (that was lying on my night stand) and drew the shape that would become the PHANTOM. Today, things are different, I am not a young man any more and my desire to actively race is not there. My desire to design and create is still very strong. SSOOOO with that said, I now design for you guys and your input is very valuable to me. Joe
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JOEBISHOP
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- May 27, 2015
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- 158
Just a note: You may notice that the tuned pipe on the ELITE boat is on the left side. I did this on purpose because of the conflicting opinions between different racers. I don't know which side is the best as there is good arguments for either side so I thought we would test both ways. I have a devise that I am building for both boats that should help the situation of cooling the tuned pipe too much. I will post pictures soon. Joe
JOE: You sure did a beautiful job on your designs and builds of both 1/2 A riggers . Your builds are second to none . Since you ask about comments on your builds, I thought I would mention some minor details that would improve your performance and make your rigger more user friendly to adjust and run.
1. Your tapered cowl on the ULTRA is perfect but you must remember that all rc boats will go through many rooster-tails and with a air duct in the front section of the cowl water will enter the engine well and enter the carburetor on front carb engines like the 21NOVADD. If you have a conventional engine with the carb over the flywheel the front air duct will be less significant.Air ducts on the lower sides of the cowl behind the carburetor may help solve this problem. The same situation on the
ELITE,this model in the rear of the cowl. Have the cowl passover the carburetor maybe 3/4 inch to 1 inch so water from the forward motion of the boat passes over the carb.
2. Slots in the tub were the carbon fiber rods go through would help in changing the angle of attack of the sponsons. This would help in finding the optimum setup.
3. A multi position turn fin to move forward and back to help find the sweet spot for finding the optimum position for turning.
Joe: Will you have a 1/8 solid shaft on ballbearings with a pillow block for minimal drag? Thanks for your sharing your designs and building skills,can't wait to see how they run.
JOE; Just incase you don't know there are small plastic/nylon/aluminum buttonhead and countersink screws you can use to mount your engine mounts. Thanks DAN
1. Your tapered cowl on the ULTRA is perfect but you must remember that all rc boats will go through many rooster-tails and with a air duct in the front section of the cowl water will enter the engine well and enter the carburetor on front carb engines like the 21NOVADD. If you have a conventional engine with the carb over the flywheel the front air duct will be less significant.Air ducts on the lower sides of the cowl behind the carburetor may help solve this problem. The same situation on the
ELITE,this model in the rear of the cowl. Have the cowl passover the carburetor maybe 3/4 inch to 1 inch so water from the forward motion of the boat passes over the carb.
2. Slots in the tub were the carbon fiber rods go through would help in changing the angle of attack of the sponsons. This would help in finding the optimum setup.
3. A multi position turn fin to move forward and back to help find the sweet spot for finding the optimum position for turning.
Joe: Will you have a 1/8 solid shaft on ballbearings with a pillow block for minimal drag? Thanks for your sharing your designs and building skills,can't wait to see how they run.
JOE; Just incase you don't know there are small plastic/nylon/aluminum buttonhead and countersink screws you can use to mount your engine mounts. Thanks DAN
JOEBISHOP
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- May 27, 2015
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- 158
Hey Dan, thanks for your comments and suggestions! I wish more guys would express their preferences. Let me try to answer what you have said. First everything is a give to get. You have to give up some things to gain others.
1. The cowl is, first off, designed to add to the boats stability. The front intake scoop actually goes over the carb and to the rear of it (on engines with the carb in the front). It would be great to be able to add ram air to the carb by the way of a scoop but as you can also ram water, this is just not possible. As for the ELITE cowl, I am trying to develop a cowl that will will add stability while also protecting the engine and carb from water spray. Also, the ELITE cowl was designed to stay in place while starting the motor, thus I can't extend it back too far. As for any ram air for this cowl, again I would love to find a way to do that. With the carb in open air, it will get plenty of air flow. What surprises me is that these little engines, in an R/C car, run at all, LOL! All the dirt, fumes, heat and lack of air flow.
2. Adjustable front sponsons? Wow, this has been quite a debate from the onset! I was wanting to avoid making the front sponsons adjustable on this very small boat but it seems that a lot of guys would like to see them adjustable. I will re-visit that situation and see what I can come up with. The sponsons are set at 3-1/2 degrees now but fine tuning them might be a plus.
3. I agree with you on the turn fin although you can see in the picture of the boat balancing that the turn fin is pretty close as is. Again, I will re-visit this situation and see what I can do.
The drive shaft on the ULTRA boat is a flex shaft and the drive shaft on the ELITE boat is a wire drive. The engine in the ULTRA boat is mounted flat with a "S" curve in the stuffing tube. The engine in the ELITE boat is mounted at an angle with only one slight bend in the stuffing tube. Both boats can be rigged either way. The motor mounts will be sold separately so the builder can decide which drive system he chooses to use.
As for a solid shaft, no I will not use one as it requires that the strut be set at an angle and I have designed the new PHANTOM II to use a horizontal strut. Where fasteners are concerned, I am just using what ever I have on hand to prototype the boats. In the final results, I will research lighter fasteners or should I say Ken will as he is great at sourcing (finding things).
Dan, thanks for your response, it helps me make the PHANTOM II line of outriggers better. I get a lot of suggestions and most of them are quite good but in the end result, I have to choose what I will incorporate into the boats and that is based, in part, on comments like yours. Thanks again! Joe
1. The cowl is, first off, designed to add to the boats stability. The front intake scoop actually goes over the carb and to the rear of it (on engines with the carb in the front). It would be great to be able to add ram air to the carb by the way of a scoop but as you can also ram water, this is just not possible. As for the ELITE cowl, I am trying to develop a cowl that will will add stability while also protecting the engine and carb from water spray. Also, the ELITE cowl was designed to stay in place while starting the motor, thus I can't extend it back too far. As for any ram air for this cowl, again I would love to find a way to do that. With the carb in open air, it will get plenty of air flow. What surprises me is that these little engines, in an R/C car, run at all, LOL! All the dirt, fumes, heat and lack of air flow.
2. Adjustable front sponsons? Wow, this has been quite a debate from the onset! I was wanting to avoid making the front sponsons adjustable on this very small boat but it seems that a lot of guys would like to see them adjustable. I will re-visit that situation and see what I can come up with. The sponsons are set at 3-1/2 degrees now but fine tuning them might be a plus.
3. I agree with you on the turn fin although you can see in the picture of the boat balancing that the turn fin is pretty close as is. Again, I will re-visit this situation and see what I can do.
The drive shaft on the ULTRA boat is a flex shaft and the drive shaft on the ELITE boat is a wire drive. The engine in the ULTRA boat is mounted flat with a "S" curve in the stuffing tube. The engine in the ELITE boat is mounted at an angle with only one slight bend in the stuffing tube. Both boats can be rigged either way. The motor mounts will be sold separately so the builder can decide which drive system he chooses to use.
As for a solid shaft, no I will not use one as it requires that the strut be set at an angle and I have designed the new PHANTOM II to use a horizontal strut. Where fasteners are concerned, I am just using what ever I have on hand to prototype the boats. In the final results, I will research lighter fasteners or should I say Ken will as he is great at sourcing (finding things).
Dan, thanks for your response, it helps me make the PHANTOM II line of outriggers better. I get a lot of suggestions and most of them are quite good but in the end result, I have to choose what I will incorporate into the boats and that is based, in part, on comments like yours. Thanks again! Joe
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2011
- Messages
- 2,399
beautiful looking outrigger design there............
Joe,
So when is the 12-Elite going to be tested?
It sure looks like it needs one of my Wilson 12's in one?
I have plenty of propellers to try on one.
The ABC 1615 was plenty of propeller last weekend in Saginaw.
I will pitch it up this week and see what it can really do now that
our race season is over.
Nice Job Joe,
Mark Sholund
So when is the 12-Elite going to be tested?
It sure looks like it needs one of my Wilson 12's in one?
I have plenty of propellers to try on one.
The ABC 1615 was plenty of propeller last weekend in Saginaw.
I will pitch it up this week and see what it can really do now that
our race season is over.
Nice Job Joe,
Mark Sholund
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JOEBISHOP
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- May 27, 2015
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- 158
Hi Mark
I am in the process of finishing and painting the two .12 boats. It has been a long haul but it is finally coming to a conclusion. Designing and prototyping a boat gets quite involved. The last time I did it was a long time ago, I guess I forgot just how much work it was, LOL! I am concerned about props and engines as the boats can go no faster than the engine and prop will allow. I am sure Ken will be getting with you on props. Later! Joe P.S. What exactly is a Wilson .12 engine?
I am in the process of finishing and painting the two .12 boats. It has been a long haul but it is finally coming to a conclusion. Designing and prototyping a boat gets quite involved. The last time I did it was a long time ago, I guess I forgot just how much work it was, LOL! I am concerned about props and engines as the boats can go no faster than the engine and prop will allow. I am sure Ken will be getting with you on props. Later! Joe P.S. What exactly is a Wilson .12 engine?
KenOlvis
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- Oct 10, 2014
- Messages
- 1,228
I have several props to test with some I have bought from mark that I ran on the .12 lighting.Been waiting on your
(game changer) props for the .12
Andy is sending me is CNC 3662/3 that sounds promising!!
I also have several new modified novarossi.12 just waiting to be tested
Thxs
Ken
(game changer) props for the .12
Andy is sending me is CNC 3662/3 that sounds promising!!
I also have several new modified novarossi.12 just waiting to be tested
Thxs
Ken
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Ken,
I would break-in the new motors in another boat first before you try
them in a new design? As far as the new ABC GAME CHANGER
PROPELLERS I am still testing the 1615 with 17 degrees of rake.
It ran good last weekend in Saginaw, Michigan. The cup and pitch
numbers are what I am working on in the new series. Most set ups
can only pull so much cup, pitch, and diameter. So I am trying to see
just where that fine line is between too much and not enough. I have
a couple of new 12-Hydros coming in soon from Canada, so it should
be a great testing platform for a really good set up.
We have found so far in testing that three blades are just a bit much for
Most 12-Hydro motors to pull with great RPM. Believe it or not Andy's last
Four blade 12-Hydro propeller worked better once we took away two of the
opposing blades off the hub and made it a two bladed propeller. I can share
some general diameters between 37 mm and 40 mm seems to be about the
size for our 12-Hydros. The best cup numbers so far have been in the 2.73"
to 3.46" range. If I was going to suggest a good number 38 mm and 2.90" of
cup would be a great place to start with a good Nova Rossi-12 engine.
Have fun testing.
Thanks,
Mark Sholund
I would break-in the new motors in another boat first before you try
them in a new design? As far as the new ABC GAME CHANGER
PROPELLERS I am still testing the 1615 with 17 degrees of rake.
It ran good last weekend in Saginaw, Michigan. The cup and pitch
numbers are what I am working on in the new series. Most set ups
can only pull so much cup, pitch, and diameter. So I am trying to see
just where that fine line is between too much and not enough. I have
a couple of new 12-Hydros coming in soon from Canada, so it should
be a great testing platform for a really good set up.
We have found so far in testing that three blades are just a bit much for
Most 12-Hydro motors to pull with great RPM. Believe it or not Andy's last
Four blade 12-Hydro propeller worked better once we took away two of the
opposing blades off the hub and made it a two bladed propeller. I can share
some general diameters between 37 mm and 40 mm seems to be about the
size for our 12-Hydros. The best cup numbers so far have been in the 2.73"
to 3.46" range. If I was going to suggest a good number 38 mm and 2.90" of
cup would be a great place to start with a good Nova Rossi-12 engine.
Have fun testing.
Thanks,
Mark Sholund
Last edited by a moderator:
KenOlvis
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Mark
Thank you for the game changer prop update.
I do have tested motors to try first when testing Phantom II A1/2A that I ran in the .12 lighting.
Andys prop that is on its way I have heard it is a must have prop for a .12 contender
DRV2WIN
Ken
KenOlvis
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MarkYou know the saying test retest then test again.Let me know when you have a prop you think would test well on the
Phantom II A1/2A elite
Andys prop will do better on ultra it has rear sponsons
DRV2WIN
Ken
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