Phantom & Phantom II

[Greg Bonahoom]

Mark,

How does the 1615 compare to 1515? It's hard to believe it could work any better for heat racing? That 1515 is very impressive. Super fast, launches easily, and comes on and off the throttle very quickly. I received many complimnents at Hobart the one heat it was calm enough water to even attempt to go full throttle with it.

 

[shoboat]

Greg,

It is still in testing right now. It is fast if you have a strong engine.

I reduced the diameter a little too much for our last race of the season

last weekend, but I will pitch it up and drop down the strut thru the bottom

of the ski this weekend. We are finding that the higher 17 degree rake has less

transom lift so we need to lower our struts a little more for the same angle of attack.

Mine was screaming last weekend with a minor pitch adjustment I think it will be

AWESOME !!! I just need to find out how much this motor will pull comfortably yet.

It has some new updates in it and I am just getting used to it again. The 1515 is still

a very good set up on the JAE-12 boat. Like anything new it will take a little time to

see what works the best on our little boats.

Thanks For The Note,

Mark Sholund

 

[SayMikey]

The best 12 hydro prop we have found is a Lynx cut 1440.

 

[KenOlvis]

Thank you for the info on props you found most use full.I have many to try then adjust to boat.using the data logger will take the guess work out on speed an lots of video

 

[BobHorowitz]

I would love to see a cowl design for electric power. Outstanding workmanship and design. Just mindblowers.

Regards,

Bob

 

[JOEBISHOP]

Hi Bob

LOL! Funny you mentioned the electric boat, I have been thinking about it for the last few days. Hey Bob and all you electric outrigger guys, I would like to know something. Why do some guys place the motor way back in the tub while other guys put the motor in a near normal position, as compared to a nitro boat? I assume balance plays a large roll in this but to me, having the hard curve in the flex shaft (when the motor is to the rear) would not be a good thing. Let me know guys. FYI, the PHANTOM II electric boat will only be built in one size and will be neither the ULTRA nor the ELITE. It will be, very much, a boat design all it's own while still retaining the classic PHANTOM profile. It will be especially designed for electric power and as a result of less vibration and heat, no oil and fuel, it will be built extremely light.

OK Bob, the cowl? The cowling will be a design study all it's own. Here is the criteria, an electric boat has a battery, ESC and motor that all get hot and depend of a strong flow of cooled air or water cooling. I would prefer to try to avid water cooling. This will require that I create a ram-air effect into the cowl that has the capability to deflect any water or spray that comes into the cowl scoop. OK you say, "well just how in the hell do you think you are going to do that"? Well, I will tell you. The air will come into the rear of the cowl, be turned back forward and exit near the front of the cowl. Any water that comes into the cowl scoop will be captured at the rear of the cowl and go directly to the siphon holes in the bottom of the boat. All my boats have approximately 6 holes in the bottom just ahead of the rear most bulkhead of each compartment, except for the radio compartment of course. These holes act as siphons to pull any water out of the boat that gets trapped inside. When the boat is dead in the water or comes into shore, a small amount of water will flow back into the compartments but I have found that the water that can flow into the tub is of no consequence. As soon as you pick the boat up, all the water will drain out. An additional plus for this system is that it also siphons off the excess oil in the engine compartment on nitro boats.

Now due to the possibility that the back flow of water could be detrimental to the motor and electronics, I will install two one way valves on the bottom of the electric boat just ahead of the foremost bulkhead of the radio compartment. This will allow any water that is brought into the tub, by the scoop, to be immediately captured and ejected from the boat. End result is that I get a strong airflow through the motor, ESC and battery compartment that is dry and free from water spray.

Bob, thanks for your nice comments! Joe

 

[mark ham]

when our we going to see some video of one of these actually running?

 

[JOEBISHOP]

when our we going to see some video of one of these actually running?

Just as soon as I final assemble the two boats and get them to Ken Olvis in Tennessee.

 

[Steven Bryant]

Hi Joe

I believe Ken forwarded you the picture of my Q rigger, now there is two reasons for the layout of motor (radio box) rear, battery 1 +esc (engine bay) middle, battery 2 (fuel bay) front, COG and minimum battery and motor wire lengths . Any other configuration would lead the cog in the wrong place and long wire which both are bad.

The curve I run in my flexi does not have a detrimental effect on the boat, as it has a very smooth curve which runs in a teflon liner.

Regarding air cooling this is not needed, the water cooling gives all the cooling needed to the motor and esc, having an open hull is not something I would be happy with, I would say you want to keep the hull as water tight as possible and not have any drain holes.

Cheers

 

[BobHorowitz]

HI Joe,

Maybe I'm wrong, being a new boater, but I' m assuming these boats are relatively small being 1/2A. It makes me think of the JAE Mini Sprint. Most people run these with no cooling at all.No water and no air. I just changed out my esc from a water cooled one to an air cooled one because of weight and size. My new aircooled one is 1/3 the weight of the watercooled one. As far as positioning of the motor goes, I'm just following what seems to be a good working design for a boat of this size and weight. That being said, a ram air cowl of some sort would have to help. Cooler is always better.

Regards,

Bob

 

[Steven Bryant]

HI Bob

I believe Joe is talking about the Q hydro 6 cell not the mini hydro riggers.

Steve

 

[JOEBISHOP]

Hi Guys

Sorry I didn't make myself clear but yes I am talking about the Q hydro 6 cell boats. Joe

 

[JOEBISHOP]

Hi Joe

I believe Ken forwarded you the picture of my Q rigger, now there is two reasons for the layout of motor (radio box) rear, battery 1 +esc (engine bay) middle, battery 2 (fuel bay) front, COG and minimum battery and motor wire lengths . Any other configuration would lead the cog in the wrong place and long wire which both are bad.

The curve I run in my flexi does not have a detrimental effect on the boat, as it has a very smooth curve which runs in a teflon liner.

Regarding air cooling this is not needed, the water cooling gives all the cooling needed to the motor and esc, having an open hull is not something I would be happy with, I would say you want to keep the hull as water tight as possible and not have any drain holes.

Cheers

Hi Steven

Sorry for taking so long to get back to you but I have been really busy! Thanks for the info about your electric boat. As for the holes in the bottom, I know what you are saying about keeping the tub as dry as possible. What I am planning to do is only place two holes in the tub's bottom just ahead of the radio compartment bulkhead. These holes will have rubber (one way) reed valves on each hole. As they will let water out, they will not let water back in. If this system works, I think it would be very beneficial to the large motors, big amp ESC's and 6 cell batteries while saving a lot of weight and rigging. You can water cool the ESC and the motor but the batteries will suffer without a strong airflow.

Let me ask you a question, what is the most popular class of electric outriggers? The boat I am designing will be called the LIGHTNING 6S and will be especially designed as an electric boat. Again thanks for your help! Joe

 

[Chris Wood]

Joe

have you gotten any of these boats wet yet?

 

[JOEBISHOP]

Hi Chris

I am doing the final finish and rigging on the two .12 boats and Ken will be testing them shortly. Joe

 

[KenOlvis]

Soon I will have the Phantom II A1/2A Elite an Ultra Joe has done a Great job getting these 2 boats to this point.For me its time to gear up be ready to test them out . Ill be Testing them in Oak Ridge Tn its going to be nice to see the Knoxville gang.Ill post when heading that way to test them if anybody would like to see The return of the Phantom II.

Sounds like a movie lol.Im already looking forward to the PROGRESS of the Phantom II CE an Phantom II AB Joe send me a sneek peak

DRV2WIN

Ken

 

[KenOlvis]

Update

Ultra Elite Phantom II A1/2A boats are painted. Now this week is reassembling time. Joe is Waiting on custom graphic Phantom II decals to arrive next week. Then Joe is posting Pics of finished Prototypes before shipment to me

Next up Phantom II AB (.21 size) is underway

DRV2WIN

Ken

 

[KenOlvis]

HI Joe,

Maybe I'm wrong, being a new boater, but I' m assuming these boats are relatively small being 1/2A. It makes me think of the JAE Mini Sprint. Most people run these with no cooling at all.No water and no air. I just changed out my esc from a water cooled one to an air cooled one because of weight and size. My new aircooled one is 1/3 the weight of the watercooled one. As far as positioning of the motor goes, I'm just following what seems to be a good working design for a boat of this size and weight. That being said, a ram air cowl of some sort would have to help. Cooler is always better.

Regards,

Bob

Joe an I both are looking for any advice for P also Q class FE rigger Motor/speed controller /battery set ups

pm Me your thoughts

Thxs

Ken

 

[JOEBISHOP]

Hey Guys

Well I have not posted anything in quite a while because I have been very busy finalizing the A 1/2 A boats. It is not like building a kit, you have all the design work to do on the drafting table then make cut templates, cut out all the parts, build the prototype, rig and finish it, draw all new cut templates (for the laser cutter) and last but definitely not least write and illustrate the assembly manual. Doing the assembly manual requires that you build one of the first kits to do assembly photos for the manual. I know some of you Guys are anxious to see some videos of the boats running so I thought I would tell you what has been the hold up. We are in the finishing process so it wont be long until we will post videos and shortly there after offer the kits for sale.

Something I have been working on at night is our line of electric outriggers. I originally thought about making an electric PHANTOM II outrigger but as the thought process went on I changed my mind. The electric outriggers will be a design all their own. They will be called the GOBLIN and the first one to be prototyped and produced will be the GOBLIN FE-P. This is a 4 cell, P class Fast Electric boat. The reason for the completely new design is the requirements for an electric outrigger. It will have to have the flat, ski like sponson fronts so it can pull up on plain from a dead stop. It also will be completely redesigned in the interior of the tub to suit the motor, ESC and battery.

I have also designed a very unique cowling for it that utilizes a reverse air flow system. The cowl will have a somewhat large air scoop that delivers air into the back of the cowl, reverses the airflow to the front of the cowl and exits the air out the front of the cowl by means of two air ducts. In the process of reversing the air flow, the cowl will have a scrubber system that removes any water spray that comes into the boat. This water then exits the boat by means of two automatic balers mounted at an angle just in front of the forward radio compartment bulkhead. You say, why not just water cool the motor and ESC? I will tell you why, the water cooling does nothing for the battery or batteries as far as cooling. You can use water cooling in conjunction with the reverse flow cowl making "the more cooling the better".

I am also making a cowl to modify a standard nitro PHANTOM II into an electric boat. The cowl kit will come with detailed instructions showing how to modify the boat for electric power. At this time my thoughts is to make cowls for the .12, .21 and .45 boats.

Anyway Guys, thought I would bring you up to speed on my progress. Later! Joe

 

[KenOlvis]

Hey Guys

Well I have not posted anything in quite a while because I have been very busy finalizing the A 1/2 A boats. It is not like building a kit, you have all the design work to do on the drafting table then make cut templates, cut out all the parts, build the prototype, rig and finish it, draw all new cut templates (for the laser cutter) and last but definitely not least write and illustrate the assembly manual. Doing the assembly manual requires that you build one of the first kits to do assembly photos for the manual. I know some of you Guys are anxious to see some videos of the boats running so I thought I would tell you what has been the hold up. We are in the finishing process so it wont be long until we will post videos and shortly there after offer the kits for sale.

Something I have been working on at night is our line of electric outriggers. I originally thought about making an electric PHANTOM II outrigger but as the thought process went on I changed my mind. The electric outriggers will be a design all their own. They will be called the GOBLIN and the first one to be prototyped and produced will be the GOBLIN FE-P. This is a 4 cell, P class Fast Electric boat. The reason for the completely new design is the requirements for an electric outrigger. It will have to have the flat, ski like sponson fronts so it can pull up on plain from a dead stop. It also will be completely redesigned in the interior of the tub to suit the motor, ESC and battery.

I have also designed a very unique cowling for it that utilizes a reverse air flow system. The cowl will have a somewhat large air scoop that delivers air into the back of the cowl, reverses the airflow to the front of the cowl and exits the air out the front of the cowl by means of two air ducts. In the process of reversing the air flow, the cowl will have a scrubber system that removes any water spray that comes into the boat. This water then exits the boat by means of two automatic balers mounted at an angle just in front of the forward radio compartment bulkhead. You say, why not just water cool the motor and ESC? I will tell you why, the water cooling does nothing for the battery or batteries as far as cooling. You can use water cooling in conjunction with the reverse flow cowl making "the more cooling the better".

I am also making a cowl to modify a standard nitro PHANTOM II into an electric boat. The cowl kit will come with detailed instructions showing how to modify the boat for electric power. At this time my thoughts is to make cowls for the .12, .21 and .45 boats.

Anyway Guys, thought I would bring you up to speed on my progress. Later! Joe

updates to Phantom II stay tuned to this post.

Follow the GOBLIN FE-P go to this link http://www.intlwaters.com/index.php?showtopic=67637