Nitro Survey

[dave roach]

I think there is a missing picture here they aren"t telling you the hole store. I did some checking on this cool power lube and it not what it made out to be for small engines that running 25,000 and up it is not a good lube for what we are using it for.They are add something besides the cool power for there uses.

My 0.02 cents

 

[Preston_Hall]

I think there is a missing picture here they aren"t telling you the hole store. I did some checking on this cool power lube and it not what it made out to be for small engines that running 25,000 and up it is not a good lube for what we are using it for.They are add something besides the cool power for there uses.
My 0.02 cents

Totally wrong.

Andy first turned Kentley on to it and then myself, Don, John, Oscar, and a few others have been racing and setting records with the same stuff.

 

[Dale0]

What Oil are you guys talking about?

 

[K-ZAM]

I think there is a missing picture here they aren"t telling you the hole store. I did some checking on this cool power lube and it not what it made out to be for small engines that running 25,000 and up it is not a good lube for what we are using it for.They are add something besides the cool power for there uses.
My 0.02 cents

All my engines turn 24,999 or less.

I like morgans oil, however the best oil that i have ever used is

Premium 500. It's has two draw backs availabilty and it stains everything.

When I get ready to start my enging the parking lot clears out.

Preston sorry about that stain on your tailgate and Oscar I told you

you should have bought a black trailer.

Kentley

 

[Preston_Hall]

Where do you get Premium 500. I have heard of Premium 96. Is that the same? Does John Finch use it?

 

[dave roach]

I beleave you can get it at the airport.

mobil jet II is a good oil.

 

[Don Ferrette]

Where do you get Premium 500. Does John Finch use it?

Nope. Cool Power blue Kart oil.

 

[Terry Keeley]

I to used to believe castor was the only way to go and for years ran 18% oil, half Klotz synthetic and half castor. I used to de-carbon my motors regularily. I also had problems with the castor staying in solution over 70% nitro and in cool weather.

About 7 or 8 years ago Andy put me on to the Premium 500 Go-Kart oil which looks, smells, and stains just like O'Donnell and I've ran 12% since with no problems whatsoever. I even ran some 80-10-10 for SAW (10% oil, 10% prop) without trouble.

Last fall I decided to find a replacement for the Premium 500 due the staining and availability issues and came upon another high end kart oil that doesn't stain and works well so far at 12%. I've been asked not to mention the manufacturer's name so I won't.

I now beleive any good quality modern synthetic will work well for us at 12%, leaving the motors cleaner and in better shape than ever before. I'm sold!

 

[Terry Keeley]

ps:

I run 60% nitro, 12% oil and 3% po in everything from 21's to 90's all year round. h34r:

 

[Buckshot]

I thought po was illiegal?

-BUCK-

 

[Don Ferrette]

I thought po was illiegal?
-BUCK-

Nope but hydrazine & tetra nitromethane is...........

 

[EatMyShortsRacing]

I thought po was illiegal?
-BUCK-

Nope but hydrazine & tetra nitromethane is...........

Hmmmm maybe it was the 22% tetra in the fuel that blew those engines????? (J/K)

*ducks for cover*

I still wouldnt mind finding out if the NEO, LB625 and Premium 500 is all the same stuff.... NEO costs me a fortune here and I cant get LB625 from UC unless I order a pallette of the stuff... cant see myself burning that much oil since I use about 5 litres a year maximum....

Also I am not sure of the advantages vs risks of running lower on oil.... on one hand the lube in Gas boats seems to be ok up to around 20k rpm and that is around 5% oil in the fuel??? I would have thought that reasonable synthetics these days should be able to get close to that figure at the higher RPM???

I have been convinced that a good synthetic should be able to protect an engine at 5% but so far have only been game enough to try one oil at that concentration and I am not even sure what it was now. I was told it was 'booster f1' and (rumour has it) CMB tracked this stuff down about ten years ago. I tried it and it seemed ok but the engines had to be set up differently to run right.

I have always found that the more synthetic in the mix (read less castor) the higher compression I have been able to run.

 

[TimD]

Other points to consider in this agument that have not come up yet.

Fuel viscosity based on type and percentage of oil, Whether the oil burns in the cylinder or not, whether the oils is drawn toward heat or repels it, what the piston temperature gets to as a result of the different oils (I believe there is a direct relationship with EGT and pipe temp and this).

Anyone ever done a Kavan prop test on 21's with different fuel mixes? I have. Gave some interesting results but they aren't really indicative of boat use as the prop is cooling the engine. I will say this - no performance gain at all from less oil in the tests I did, in fact on more than 1 engine 25% oil perfomed better than 12%.

Tim.

 

[EatMyShortsRacing]

Tim,

remembering the oil content will add to the compression..... I am not surprised. BUT.... have the ideal compression set for the different fuels... there may be another story to be told

EMS Racing So I forgot my usual tag lines for a while...

 

[Don Ferrette]

Anyone ever done a Kavan prop test on 21's with different fuel mixes? I have. Gave some interesting results but they aren't really indicative of boat use as the prop is cooling the engine. I will say this - no performance gain at all from less oil in the tests I did, in fact on more than 1 engine 25% oil perfomed better than 12%.
Tim.

Well for the record I had basically a 3mph gain ( 2.9mph on radar, no other changes) on my MAC21 going from 16% to 12% with crisper throttle response and what seemed to be an audible increase in RPM. Maybe it just sounded better when I realized it was faster after seeing the gun.

 

[TimD]

I almost forgot.

One of the guys who I race with who is undoubtedly one of the best rigger racers in this country. Multiple nationals winner and Middleton trophy winner as well as getting fastest race times at major race meetings. He recently tried a batch of Cool Power using the same % as he had used with Klotz in a CMB90Evo2 with an ABC liner and on the first run the piston stuck above the exhaust port BIG time. He believes it is the fuel that caused it and Gave that fuel away and went back to Klotz. Maybe coincedental that it happened at the same time he changed oil, maybe not.

Another friend of mine was sticking pistons in his K90's. Changed oil % and added some castor and problem went away for good. Actually gained some perfomance too. K motors run a lot less taper and this is an important factor to the way they perform. Al Hobbs suggests castor in them for a reason.

I'm sure no-one will call either of those motor's below standard - they have both performed at the highest levels possible for several years.

The guy who I learned alot from regarding engines also swears by castor oil. He has built numerous pylon, c/l speed world championship winning engines over the years and did the whole synth. oil thing for a while but went back to using some castor for reliability and tunability.

 

[TimD]

Tim,
remembering the oil content will add to the compression..... I am not surprised. BUT.... have the ideal compression set for the different fuels... there may be another story to be told

Craig,

There is another aspect and it relates to the BTu of the fuel mix. The type of oil affects it. Compression is not the only factor with detonation.

Tim.

 

[TimD]

Well for the record I had basically a 3mph gain ( 2.9mph on radar, no other changes) on my MAC21 going from 16% to 12% with crisper throttle response and what seemed to be an audible increase in RPM. Maybe it just sounded better when I realized it was faster after seeing the gun.

Don,

I don't disagree with you but there could be another explanation for that, and I believe the clue is in your comment about the audible increase in RPM. My guess is the drop in oil content was changing the EGT slightly and making the pipe act like it was at a different length. (The pipe is what we are talking about with peak rpm's).

With the bench tests we did we tried different pipe lengths to compensate for this.

Don't get me wrong - I am willing to learn from others and potentially make a change. I can't afford to torch engines for a 5% gain so I need to be convinced that the motors are up to it.

I run currently;

Novarossi 21 L/S.

K67, K82, K90. (the distributor suggests 20% oil, including castor).

Tim.

 

[Don Ferrette]

"I don't disagree with you but there could be another explanation for that, and I believe the clue is in your comment about the audible increase in RPM. My guess is the drop in oil content was changing the EGT slightly and making the pipe act like it was at a different length. (The pipe is what we are talking about with peak rpm's).

With the bench tests we did we tried different pipe lengths to compensate for this."

Why would the EGT would change, if your needle's right you're not burning the oil. Oh yeah & head temp checks were all about the same.

Let me put it like this- ran with 16%, then went to 12% & went 2.9mph faster. Went right back to 16% next run & lost that 2.9. Next run was on 12% & gain was back. I'm growing tired of flogging this horse so for those who are content to not "step outside the box" so be it. I live outside the box so I am willing to take the chances to achieve the gains. As my good friend Terry (Keeley) puts it so well-

If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got...

 

[izitbrokeyet?]

Probably worth mentioning at this point that 21’s are much more tolerant to heat than larger motors. Small motors are WAY more efficient in transfer of heat to the atmosphere than a larger motors because of several factors like surface area/ BTU, less frictional surface, tighter clearance for increased heat transfer and some other reasons. I’m not surprised at all to see that the 21 likes the lower oil content…..especially in a well made motor.