Nitro Survey

[akilbar]

We bought a whole barrel ( 55 gallons ) from Redmax. With shipping and all it came out to about 16.00/gallon. We broke the barrel down into 5 gallon jugs for easier storage. It is 50% nitro with 18% oil and I run it in 45 and 90's. We add some nitro to get it up to 60% and down to 15% oil in the 21's.

Works for us.

 

[Preston_Hall]

I really should actually, we have about 20 gallons of nitro left from our topfuel dragbike days....wonder if its still good?
anybody feel like sharing there fuel mixing specs?

~James

Nitro never goes bad. Only the methanol.

Mixtures? Well you will get a million answers on that. But stick with 12-15% oil and whatever nitro % you want.

 

[Preston_Hall]

Brad,

Could you explain why you would decrease the oil content?

After just doing some calculations and thinking about fuel mixes I can see why the higher the nitro content the less % oil you need as nitro is not the combusted propulsion liquid and the methanol is.

It seems that you would always need the same oil percentage. To aide in the oxidation of the nitro due to decreased methanol you would have to increase temperatures or compression. It seems. :unsure:

Or.......................you could use the not-so-mentioned oxidizing additive. Ah, let's see who wins the prize behind door #1. This additive is very explosive at most ambient temperatures and you need only a couple ounces per gallon.

 

[Preston_Hall]

And don't bother 80% nitro 5% oil in you .12's. :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[topfuel443]

Preston and anyone else.... I unerstand how to mix the fuels, but what oil brands and quantities are what im looking for. I ve heard of running Klotz and others, but what type specifically. Klotz makes alot of different oils....

~James

 

[Preston_Hall]

Been here before. I'll get shot for this, but castor is old school and not an advanced lubricant. It won't hurt anything other than TOP performance.

Good Oil

You can look on the Red Max sight for why castor isn't the way to go. Don had a link to this a while back and is much more knowledgable about it.

 

[topfuel443]

akilbar.... are you saying after breaking down a 55 gallon drum of nitro it cost 16 dollars per gall of 100% nitro? thats about 880.00 for a drum. thats extremely cheap. we paid 1000.00 for the last drum of VP 100 nitro, and we got it at wholesale due to our sponsorship. was it VP fuel?

or are you saying after mixing the nitro with oil and alchohol, its costing about 16 bucks a gallon for mixed fuel?

just curious, James

 

[Preston_Hall]

akilbar.... are you saying after breaking down a 55 gallon drum of nitro it cost 16 dollars per gall of 100% nitro? thats about 880.00 for a drum. thats extremely cheap. we paid 1000.00 for the last drum of VP 100 nitro, and we got it at wholesale due to our sponsorship. was it VP fuel?
or are you saying after mixing the nitro with oil and alchohol, its costing about 16 bucks a gallon for mixed fuel?

just curious, James

That's about what it costs us.

 

[ClayGlover]

Or.......................you could use the not-so-mentioned oxidizing additive. Ah, let's see who wins the prize behind door #1. This additive is very explosive at most ambient temperatures and you need only a couple ounces per gallon.

Have you tried the propylene oxide Preston? I presume that's what you're referring to? :blink:

Maybe like a 1% mixture or something?

 

[Preston_Hall]

Or.......................you could use the not-so-mentioned oxidizing additive. Ah, let's see who wins the prize behind door #1. This additive is very explosive at most ambient temperatures and you need only a couple ounces per gallon.

Have you tried the propylene oxide Preston? I presume that's what you're referring to? :blink:

Maybe like a 1% mixture or something?

Hmmmmmmmmmm.

 

[Preston_Hall]

If you would like to figure the end cost per gallon or how much fuel you can make from "x" amount of nitro and how much oil and meth you will need then use this spredsheet. You will need Excel and ONLY fill in the colored cells.

Fuel Calculator

 

[ClayGlover]

hmmm, prope = wwwaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA BANG :lol:

 

[Russell Bear]

50% Nitro

18% Oil

Use on 21's to 67's

Ernie LaFleur mix.....

 

[Don Ferrette]

Been here before. I'll get shot for this, but castor is old school and not an advanced lubricant. It won't hurt anything other than TOP performance.
Good Oil

You can look on the Red Max sight for why castor isn't the way to go. Don had a link to this a while back and is much more knowledgable about it.

In my opinion Preston is correct, castor is an OLD school band aid approach from back when model engine oils were not that good. The significant advances of the synthetics in recent years makes them FAR superior rendering castor a waste of time, money & performance. The higher exhaust temps from burning castor can also lead to premature exhaust coupler failure. Here's the link to the castor article-

http://members.aol.com/FHSoil/Castor.html

The Cool Power 2 cycle Kart Racing oil is great stuff, we've not experiences ANY oil related failures since switching to it & that's running 12% & 15% mixes. B)

 

[mark voorhies]

Run in Nova Rossi .21 motors with 70% with no problem. 16% syn. oil. 2% castor.

 

[TimD]

The old castor oil argument raises it's head once again :lol: :lol: :lol:

My mix for the K motors 67 - 90 (less taper angle than italian engines) is 50% nitro, 15% klotz techniplate, 5% degummed castor oil. The castor improves the seal and reduces the chances of a stuck piston with these motors.

My 21 novarossi runs 60%nitro, 10% klotz, 2% castor. Haven't played with fuel in these engines too much - but if you play around with Thunder Tiger 21's, they love castor oil for some reason - probably crankshaft sealing :unsure:

Tim.

 

[BradV]

Brad,
Could you explain why you would decrease the oil content?

After just doing some calculations and thinking about fuel mixes I can see why the higher the nitro content the less % oil you need as nitro is not the combusted propulsion liquid and the methanol is.

It seems that you would always need the same oil percentage. To aide in the oxidation of the nitro due to decreased methanol you would have to increase temperatures or compression. It seems. :unsure:

Or.......................you could use the not-so-mentioned oxidizing additive. Ah, let's see who wins the prize behind door #1. This additive is very explosive at most ambient temperatures and you need only a couple ounces per gallon.

Yes it is just that I can see chemically and mathematically why less % of oil would be needed with the higher nitro percentages.

The richer needle setting that we all run on higher percentages of nitro is because there is less methanol in the fuel compared to oil and this compensates.

So the way I'm seeing it now I will make a couple of custom blends. At 40% nitro levels I will stick with 18% oil and at 50% nitro I will go to 15% oil.

Just on the hunt now for some really good synthetic oil available in Australia..

 

[EatMyShortsRacing]

Well the best synthetic available in Australia is NEO!!!! (that is if you like brown stains on your boat) Most likely equivelant to UC LB625

Cool power is real good if you like rebuilding engines

Klotz is fair... Castrol M seems ok for castor... BP Castor smells funny therefore there is something funny in it....

My fuel blends have been 40%-60% (more standardising on the 60% now) with 15% oil. Has been 50/50 NEO / Castor but I am considering going a futher 50/50 on the castor replacing it with Klotz.... so that would be 50% NEO, 25%Klotz and 25% Castor....

I am concerned about some of the claims these oil and fuel manufacturers make as only tests and testamonials that directly pertain to model boating should be taken into consideration.

For instance.... In Australia almost every boater that has tried cool power has ended up with blown engines... myself included. Dont take the risk here!!!

Cool power may work in planes and cars.... just not boats!!!

I have blown one engine since switching to NEO and that was on a run without NEO in the fuel (and incredibly lean - user error). I have friends who have had good success with Klotz and I am moving that way to replace some of the castor.

EDL was also a good alternative but I am not sure of its availability in Australia.

Safe blend in my opinion is 15-20% oil 50/50 with castor and either Klotz or NEO...

EMS Racing the guy with the stained boats - why did I paint them white???

 

[Don Ferrette]

"For instance.... In Australia almost every boater that has tried cool power has ended up with blown engines... myself included. Dont take the risk here!!!"

Well I'd sure like to know what you guys are doing wrong or what motors your blowing up. The 2 cycle Kart racing oil has been perfect for us, NO engine failures. it's also REAL easy to blame the oil when an engine fails. A better oil will allow more power & more RPM perhaps reaching the mechanical limits on a particular engine. (like the Picco's & OPS motors failed instantly at a certain RPM level) How is it we can run 12% (or less) of this very oil at record trials & not lose a single motor??? Can't think of a more stressful way to run an engine than record trials.

 

[dave roach]

Every one is wright about castor oil it does"nt burn and it leaves brown stuff on top of your piston and head button. one thing you are missing by not running castor is that you can remove some of the taper in the liner and castor oil will end crease the compressing.I have mix my own fuel for 10 years with KLOTZ=KL100 and have never had a engine or bearing problem.I do"nt care about stright way speed I went the engine to live when your on a budaget engine are not cheap.