Is Nitro dead?

[waltr]

How about picking me up a few Octura props. Whooops, you can't.

did I mis something . Is there a prop shortage ? Bought 2 last week ago or so from <a href="http://www.rocketcityracing.com/" target="_blank">http://www.rocketcityracing.com/</a> . Someone please ......... explain

No shortage that I've seen either. I just picked up a few new Octuras myself, and don't forget, Andy is now making props also.

He's already made more props than one can imagine and lots more to come.

If you want to see Nitro grow, take a newbie or 2 under your wing and teach him the ropes at your local pond. It'll make their 1st experience with Nitro a bunch easier and that way, they won't be discouraged right from the start and never come back.

Most RTR instructions are lacking info for the 1st time boater and some help would go a long..... way.

 

[hydro]

If Andy comes out with a line of engines priced in the $250 to $350 range that run strong on low to no nitro and makes parts for the existing Mac's ... Glow plug boating will be hot again all over. Even the Gas guys will come back in a big way, because now glow engines are now reasonable and fuel cost is now more inline with a gallon of gas/synthetic oil and you get more mileage out of a gallon. I am ready to buy three engines when they are available !! and I know you are too. But there's NO way I am going to bow to 60.00 plus dollar fuel and 600.00 dollar engines ...... no matter how much I like the hobby.

IF Nitro fuel stays high in cost and theirs is only One high price Italian engine manufacture to buy for the big engines and once all the parts stashes that the boaters have been hoarding, runs out for the older obsolete engines ... it's a Goner... to all but the diehards with deep pockets.

Now I am done with this thread and going back to build my New scratch built Gas rigger with a $225.00 zenoah ( I will mod myself) that runs all day on 5 dollars of fuel ..... I leave the 60 dollars fuel and 550.00 plus dollar CMB's to you ... email me when I can pick up my three reasonably price Glow engines .. LOL

John

 

[steve speas]

If Andy comes out with a line of engines priced in the $250 to $350 range that run strong on low to no nitro and makes parts for the existing Mac's ... Glow plug boating will be hot again all over. Even the Gas guys will come back in a big way, because now glow engines are now reasonable and fuel cost is now more inline with a gallon of gas/synthetic oil and you get more mileage out of a gallon. I am ready to buy three engines when they are available !! and I know you are too. But there's NO way I am going to bow to 60.00 plus dollar fuel and 600.00 dollar engines ...... no matter how much I like the hobby.
IF Nitro fuel stays high in cost and theirs is only One high price Italian engine manufacture to buy for the big engines and once all the parts stashes that the boaters have been hoarding, runs out for the older obsolete engines ... it's a Goner... to all but the diehards with deep pockets.

Now I am done with this thread and going back to build my New scratch built Gas rigger with a $225.00 zenoah ( I will mod myself) that runs all day on 5 dollars of fuel ..... I leave the 60 dollars fuel and 550.00 plus dollar CMB's to you ... email me when I can pick up my three reasonably price Glow engines .. LOL

John

good post "i have been doing this a long time" 1975!! we are model boat racers here, well i know i am.won both nationals in namba & impba. set a few records too. i can race my cat boat in 3 classes for the weekend on 1/2 gallon of gas, blow no glow plugs,never blow bearings out,never blow the motor, and have never bent the crank from ingesting water, i just want to be able to race and have some fun doing it the bottom line is, gas is where i can do it, cheaper and easier right now! thats all i still love to hear a smoken high nitro motor,i just dont want to have to do it myself B)

 

[Steve Sutton]

I am refering to boats where was I not?? Just because I toss up car manufacturers in refrence to nitro fuel dont mean squat

Again mabey I should check around and see where EVERY nitro car engine thats work a crap takes a turbo plug and even those are are 10.99 and less check with tower hobbies as low as 5.99 for a turbo plug

your prices seem to only reflect your idea of things not real world application----- seriously would love to see a 200$ brand new Sikk engine --also, I could be wrong they might be sold that cheep someplace so prove it

here ill help ya out since sikk is a name put on a motor not who manufactures it

google names for you to look up for it

sikk

Chung Yang

CY

Just being friendly and trying to help you prove me wrong

First, chill.

Second, read your first sentence.

Third, a turbo plug isn't worth it's packaging.

Fourth, go on Ebay and buy a new Sikk for under $220 from DDM who lists them on their web site for $270.

Fifth, I know Sikk is CY. So you want Butch, CC, Midwest and the others to take their names off of motors. Right.

Some races are growing with nitro but face the facts. With lack of new product being made then it is dieing. The best hope nitro has right now is CMDI racing.

Just trying to be friendly and you are wrong.

I'll now go hang out with crazy Steve Speas.

Preston,

I thought that the big guy (Steve Speas) was crazy when he told us about 12-15 years ago that gas boats would be the future of RC Model Boat racing!!! I remember telling him he was crazy and had lost his mind when he told me this at a race. Then in around 1997 the gas boat racing was really picking up and they were running a heck of a lot faster, again he told me gas boats were gonna be the way of the future. I scratched my head but still did not want to believe him. Well I have raced nitro / glow plug mono's from 20 thru 90 size motors for many years and always enjoyed the sound and sight of a good running nitro / glow plug engine. I would go threw withdraw periods during the winter months and needed my nitro fix around February and would go out and run boats as long as the pond was not frozen over. I remember doing this with John Finch, Steve Speas and Don Ferrette on several occassions. But I have to admit I have gone the way of the "Dark Side" and now strictly race Gas Mono's as the Nitro/ Glow plug "Mono" racing in our district has all but vanished. So had to "Eat Crow" and tell the Big Guy (Steve Speas) he was right when he predicted that Gas RC boat racing was gonna be the way of the future in our sport / hobby. I must admit I still enjoy watching and hearing a good running Nitro boat but I don't see any more in my future here in D12.

 

[Preston_Hall]

I can see that some just want to buck the system. Maybe dead is too strong a term at this time but very troubled would not be exagerated.

5000 plugs is not many as stated. I know a hand full of people that would buy 100 each every year.

As for props, I was thinking of Prather. Still, they are gone.

Does OPS still make engines? I see Aeromarine does not list them anymore. It doesn't really matter since nobody ran them anyway. So what happens if CMB closes the doors. Then nitro is dead. It will be only a matter of time before the stuff you own is worn out and ready for the trash.

If you can't get all the pieces to the puzzle then you are dead! Look at Ford. They can't get axles for some of their trucks and guess what? That line of trucks is dead! Of course somebody will make axles and breath some life into the lagege trucks and possibly somebody might breath a little life back into nitro.

Something will have to happen or the glow side of the sport will suffer greatly.

If John Finch, Steve Speas, Steve Sutton, and myself run gas then you know something is going on. Don Ferrette is almost on line but he is still fighting it. Now if I see Kentley Porter with a gas boat then it's done.

 

[Josh Stollfuss]

Prather props are still available, Hyperformance RC bought them out. http://hyperprod.bizhosting.com/prabx.html

I picked up a couple from them recently.

 

[Preston_Hall]

I give up. I was wrong. I gotta go anyway, my horse is drinking water.

 

[BigChuck]

What is with you people??? Are all of you sleeping at the wheel. The simple explination is?? EVOLVE.

Nitro has been the choice for how many decades. Gas is the new kid on the block. BUT.............all of this is subject to the same equation. Price ,availability,supply,information.

Nitro has its history, Gas is Just starting to make it's own. Yet if you look closley gas is suffering the same fate as nitro......................why? Price. Please explain to me why so many that just got into gas are like so many that were into nitro. SELLING OUT!!!! You read it everyday.

As for Price. For the individual that can mod a motor, price is not $225.00 Sorry dude. But your 4 or 5 hours with the dremel has a price too. Is your time only 6.25 an Hour? IF Don can recall. The guy pitted in front of him in April had more in one G260 that my 90 twin motors NEW!!!

As I said before, THE BIG PICTURE HERE!!! is the PROGRESSION of the hobby. And from were I am looking, despite of all of the NOISE ABOUT GAS......................BOATING IS LOSING GROUND!!!

 

[Don Ferrette]

If John Finch, Steve Speas, Steve Sutton, and myself run gas then you know something is going on. Don Ferrette is almost on line but he is still fighting it. Now if I see Kentley Porter with a gas boat then it's done.

Fighting it? Not hardly. I run both and messed with the gas stuff before Preston, Finch or Sutton did (26cc motors weren't even a thought yet but I had a wicked 23cc Midwest Zen). The gas stuff caters to our current society's "plug & play" mentality as once you've got everything together it requires very little effort to run ... until something goes wrong. I'll be the first to admit my gas Thunderboat is a blast and that is mostly because the motor is stock and I hope the class remains that way. Speas was right when he said that the gas stuff was going to really take off & it has. However, at the same time as we cut up the once ultra consistent gassers in the quest for more power and speed, they are becoming just as, if not more finicky than nitro. Go to any decent race & you will see equal numbers of both gas & nitro coming back in the retrieve boats. The difference I'm seeing now is less people that know how to quickly diagnose & troubleshoot a gasser when they don't act right. Far more complex fuel metering systems, water cooled exhaust necessitated by the high exhaust temps, a full blown ignition system, etc. Nitro, once you learned how to tune a needle, is almost primitive by comparison. The down side is the fuel is real expensive as are the glow plugs, and as Preston mentioned, motor choices are thin. He is totally correct when he stated that right now most of us are relying on CMB's existence. I certainly hope we see those new engines out of Live Oak & also from the Pas brothers as well (where is that project currently at?). Personally I don't see nitro going anywhere anytime soon but what I do think will happen is it will become more of a high end esoteric type of racing like the current upper tier FE boats are. For me there is simply no substitute for the sound and speed of a dialed in nitro motor (or motors ) twisting it's way up to rpm heaven, gas cannot give me that rush. But I certainly will continue with the gassers as well as on the flip side there sometimes is nothing more enjoyable than a day of "plug & play".

 

[Tom Foley]

If John Finch, Steve Speas, Steve Sutton, and myself run gas then you know something is going on. Don Ferrette is almost on line but he is still fighting it. Now if I see Kentley Porter with a gas boat then it's done.

Fighting it? Not hardly. I run both and messed with the gas stuff before Preston, Finch or Sutton did (26cc motors weren't even a thought yet but I had a wicked 23cc Midwest Zen). The gas stuff caters to our current society's "plug & play" mentality as once you've got everything together it requires very little effort to run ... until something goes wrong. I'll be the first to admit my gas Thunderboat is a blast and that is mostly because the motor is stock and I hope the class remains that way. Speas was right when he said that the gas stuff was going to really take off & it has. However, at the same time as we cut up the once ultra consistent gassers in the quest for more power and speed, they are becoming just as, if not more finicky than nitro. Go to any decent race & you will see equal numbers of both gas & nitro coming back in the retrieve boats. The difference I'm seeing now is less people that know how to quickly diagnose & troubleshoot a gasser when they don't act right. Far more complex fuel metering systems, water cooled exhaust necessitated by the high exhaust temps, a full blown ignition system, etc. Nitro, once you learned how to tune a needle, is almost primitive by comparison. The down side is the fuel is real expensive as are the glow plugs, and as Preston mentioned, motor choices are thin. He is totally correct when he stated that right now most of us are relying on CMB's existence. I certainly hope we see those new engines out of Live Oak & Ilso from the Pas brothers as well (where is that project currently at?). Personally I don't see nitro going anywhere anytime soon but what I do think will happen is it will become more of a high end esoteric type of racing like the current upper tier FE boats are. For me there is simply no substitute for the sound and speed of a dialed in nitro motor (or motors ) twisting it's way up to rpm heaven, gas cannot give me that rush. But I certainly will continue with the gassers as well as on the flip side there sometimes is nothing more enjoyable than a day of "plug & play".

I now have just as much in Gas as Nitro , the parts are cheaper , the fuel is cheaper , they are SLOWER !! But I still love both , HOWEVER !!!!!!NOTHING equals the rush of a Twin Nitro Rigger , worth every penny !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Buckshot]

.....so CMB is the only manufacture of .45 and up Glow Engines. Everyone has their panties in a wad waiting on "Live Oak" to spit out motors.

Do you guy really think that just because 1 more manufacturer comes around that things are going to get better?.......I don't think so!

IMO the CMDi motor thing, when it happens, will be very limited at best. Come on guys, One machine building ALL these high end exotic engines........How many machines do you think CMB has.....How many dose Nova have running.....Many more I'm willing to say.....Oh and those are proven machines that run reliably all the time.......

Point: Nitro will not get cheaper; Parts will be difficult to obtain from now on.

Just like Tether cars, this hobby started out as a machinist's hobby. Every modeler built and raced their own motors, hardware, and hulls; I guess all things come full circle...

Sometimes the truth hurts doesn't it? Sorry guys.

-Buck-

 

[dave roach]

It's going to take more then one machine to build engines,If it's cmb,nova rossi,k-b or the MAC.You can't get it done on one Machine for all the engines we need built.21,45,67,80,90,101,it's not going to happen.

Dave Roach

 

[optimax]

If you want to see the CMB factory here it is. Nothing more than a small mom and pop machine shop. As you can see in the pictures there is no grinding equipment so they must sub the work out (crankshafts).I saw another picture that I do not have Cmb the bought a new multi axis mill made by DMG in germany.

CMB is also moving in the gas direction with a new 26 cc motor they are testing it now.

Why is CMDI always making everything elese but engines? (Not to be smart)All we here is im working on it. I assume that the Machine purchase was for manufacturing of the Mac Motors.

As for glowplugs there must be a way of using another type of wire element that would be a lot cheaper maybe (nicrome wire).

 

[nitrotwin]

cash flow? learning curve? machine problems?

 

[Buckshot]

As you can see in the pictures there is no grinding equipment so they must sub the work out (crankshafts).

I beleive Pico or Nova dose CMB's grinding.

-Buck-

 

[optimax]

As you can see in the pictures there is no grinding equipment so they must sub the work out (crankshafts).

I beleive Pico or Nova dose CMB's grinding.

-Buck-

We have a Mori sieki same type of machine at work and we are making complex parts on it. If they can make props and headers and tuned pipes a piston and sleve should be no problem. Seems like they are avoiding the issue of making engine parts and making everything elese.

 

[Don Ferrette]

Ok that'll about do ............

For those who can't understand why there are not engines out of CMDi yet but there are parts, it's time for some simple economics 101-

1- the Mazak machine at CMDi when on line 14 months later than promised. Seems Mazak took that long to figure out what they did wrong when they first installed it.

2- the bank holding the note on the mega dollar machine doesn't give a rat's butt that the factory couldn't get it on line when promised, they want their money, period.

3- parts that can be made in house can be sold right NOW, furthering the ability to PAY for said machine & tooling.

4- programs have to be written, which also means learning how to write them. Did anyone stop and look at what was available & in what order? It started with simple stuff like drive dogs & carb arms, then pipes & now props. Part of the learning curve, the motors will happen when they happen.

5- as it was eluded earlier that stuff can't be done in house like grinding & chroming, that is correct in this instance as well. And anyone who knows anything about having grinding or chroming done can tell you that unless you walk thru the door with at least a hundred pieces those people won't give you the time of day.... or charge alot for the low piece count. It means that multiple pieces for different engines brought forth to get a decent enough price to keep the engines affordable.

I could go on but that is enough for now. So to those of you who want to complain, take a look at what is actually involved. And lastly be thankful that there are those like CMDi & the Pas bros. who are even making an effort to keep this going, they could have just as easily said no thanks .........

 

[nitrotwin]

Keep the faith! B) Has anyone heard from the Pas Bros lately? I have had some rechroming done that stuff ain't cheap!!! :angry:

cash flow? learning curve? machine problems?

 

[piper_chuck]

Since D12 has come up a number of times in this thread, it might be good to post some information about nitro participation. At the two district races we've had so far this season, we've had enough boats for multiple heats in 1/8 scale (and there are a couple more boats in the works in the district), B Tunnel, and Sport 40 hydro. All of these classes appear to be up from last year. If you're racing in D12 and want to run nitro, these are solid classes. Sport 20 tunnel had multiple heats at the PTPT race, but alas isn't offered at other district races. The hydro classes are showing solid participation, and as with 1/8 scale, there are a few additional boats being readied. And finally, don't forget that one can get their "nitro fix" in Open Cat, Open Offshore, and Open Nitro Mono.

 

[dave roach]

Don

Go back and read my post #72 It will not happen with one machine.I have been a tool maker for years and I know what it takes.Have a good day.

Dave Roach