Electric Rules

[Mikemalloy]

Let me rephrase my wording, yes a boat is inspected/ teched when its a new build or new registered boat in the club. After that we don’t need to tech a boat at every club race because everyone in our club follows the rules...bahahahahaha...bahahahahahaha hope you sides feel better..

Mike Hughes I’m sure if you are able to read the FE rules you will not have any issues with being able to tech a boat it’s black and white.

 

[Don Ferrette]

Let me rephrase my wording, yes a boat is inspected/ teched when its a new build or new registered boat in the club. After that we don’t need to tech a boat at every club race because everyone in our club follows the rules...bahahahahaha...bahahahahahaha hope you sides feel better..

Mike Hughes I’m sure if you are able to read the FE rules you will not have any issues with being able to tech a boat it’s black and white.

Yup and everyone always behaves at the club races and follows the rules or they won't be allowed to pet the magic unicorn at the end of the day.

:lol:

:lol:

Seriously though instead of blowing Mike (and the rest of us) off exactly how does one tech this "black and white" rule at a Nationals or Time Trials.

So please tell exactly how Mike is supposed to tech pond side during a National event where the very integrity of said event is on the line........

- true motor kv

- true battery C rating

- true mah rating

Take your time..... we'll wait.

 

[Grimracer]

The only way to have a chance of controlling this is using a current limiter like the F class pylon racers.. until something like that is put in place.. this is a lost cause.

there will always be something new..

there will always be somebody playing in the grey areas of the rules

there will always be something changing in the org (I want to run this class, not that one)

Good luck all.. I hope ya all get it figured out..

Grim

 

[Darin Jordan]

So please tell exactly how Mike is supposed to tech pond side during a National event where the very integrity of said event is on the line........

- true motor kv

- true battery C rating

- true mah rating

Take your time..... we'll wait.

EXACTLY, Don. MIke's comment was spoken by someone who clearly has NEVER HAD TO tech an FE setup!!

But, why listen to the FE guys in this regard? What the hell could we possible know or have learned over the years. (re: P-LTD rules nightmare)...

 

[Darin Jordan]

And Darin, I don’t ever remember seeing you run FE 1/8 Scale anywhere so why do you even care?

Hmmm... what was the voting, like 300-something to 100-something against?

Seems that there are quite a few NAMBA members who voted FOR this that don't race FE 1/8th Scale. Does it matter to you there??

Bill, the integrity of the rulebook and of these events warrants proper rules and procedures, as does our INSURANCE status.

If you want to have "good-ol-boy" racing, then do that at a club level. You could have avoided this whole mess. I'm speaking from FIRST HAND experience, as we should have left P-LTD this way.

And, you are contradicting yourself, by the way, when you say "if you cheat you're disqualified", but then trying to discount the ability to actually tech? HOW do you know someone is cheating?

Sorry, guys. This was PISS POORLY implemented and not well though out, and has so much gray in it that you'll never have a viable class.

But you are right... why should I care. Don't and won't have a dog in this hunt, so why should it matter, right?

 

[LohringMiller]

I'm definitely not an electric expert, but I have taken some physics and math courses that definitely apply, .I was interested in starting a discussion on finding rules for electric classes. I'm glad we did get some electric experts to weigh in. At my club the P limited classes with their old rules were a great success. I was looking for other approaches as some seem to be exploring. Tech is always going to be an issue. Darin's motor testing shows the issues with manfacturer's specs.

Lohring Miller

 

[DPeterson]

OMG! LOL!

On and on it goes. Now some of you know what it feels like to have BS rules dictated to you. How's it feel?

Then there's a few self pro-claimed FE experts complaining about lack of tech-ability. But yet they have their names attached to some BS P-Limited records. The Irony.

Your all so focused on trying to grow electric membership, but have done nothing but drive away a quite a bunch of veteran racers. How's it working for ya?

Thank you all for re-confirming my exit from electric. Doug

 

[T.S.Davis]

We don't miss ya Doug. You were an IMPBA club. Why didn't you propose your vision of limited to them? Easier to just bitch about it.

If you read the thread I said we blew it on limited. Not good enough for you? Should I throw myself down a well? This new set makes the same foolish mistakes we made with limited.

 

[Doug Smock]

Should I throw myself down a well?

Not till after the FE Nats / Michigan Cup please sir. The MMEU needs ya.

 

[T.S.Davis]

I'm usually pretty good about admitting it when I screw it up. Did.

Right after the nats I'll find a well Doug. Maybe by that mansion on the hill. Hoffa and I can hang out.

 

[Doug Smock]

I'll talk it over with the guys Terry.

 

[Don Ferrette]

Doug,

I see where you're going with this and, all in all, I like the thought. The only issue I have is that you've linked the IMPBA Constitution, something that isn't applicable to anyone that is a NAMBA member.

Since I didn't have time to address this one this morning I will now...........

Mark, the point Doug was making by linking the IMPBA rules is to show how your BOD needs to have some teeth. Right it seems you all have the same problem we faced a while back in that your BOD has no way to stop a proposal no matter how flawed it may be. We faced a similar situation with a rule proposal that was so screwed up it was ridiculous yet it still went out to the membership for vote. After dealing with that fiasco and the subsequent fallout from it that problem was addressed, I know because I wrote the fix for it that now appears in our rulebook as follows-

Rule Proposal under General Rules of Competition, Contest & Racing Rules,

Technical Standards, and Classes

Option #1-

All rule proposals supported by a majority of the Executive Board, will automatically undergo a trial period for one year (except as noted in section 1,C). After one year, the proposal will be distributed to IMPBA membership with a ballot that will require a head count for and against the proposal. Ballots shall be returned to the respective District Director or the IMPBA secretary within the time stipulated. The final vote of the Executive Board will be posted online and become effective as of the beginning of the next racing season. Results will also be published in the next Roostertail newsletter.

Option #2-

Board members vote by majority to turn down a submitted proposal. This option terminates the proposal.

Option #3-

All rule proposals not supported and not terminated under option #2 by the Board, will be distributed to IMPBA membership in December for vote by a ballot that will require a head count for or against the proposal. The membership vote will determine the implementation of said proposal and, if passed, will be effective as of the beginning of the next racing season. Results will also be published in the next Roostertail newsletter. All Racing Rule proposals reviewed by the Board will be published in the Roostertail for at least one full quarter before being voted on by the membership in December with the exception of one year trials.

Option #4-

Board members vote by majority to indefinitely table a submitted proposal. This option allows a proposal to be revisited at a later time determined at Boards discretion. A majority vote of the board required to re-visit proposal.

Honestly had this rule proposal been presented to the IMPBA in all likeyhood it would have gone right to the FE Director first for initial thoughts and feedback before it went out to the BOD for review and discussion at next meeting. And know this - in no way is this meant to bash NAMBA nor it's members many who are respected friends of mine but rather to help strengthen your organization. As it has become brutally apparent, this new rule you all made is a train wreck, just like what we went through. Let it be a lesson to serve to help strengthen the BOD for the good of it's members as a whole.

 

[Bill Brandt]

Doug,

I see where you're going with this and, all in all, I like the thought. The only issue I have is that you've linked the IMPBA Constitution, something that isn't applicable to anyone that is a NAMBA member.

Since I didn't have time to address this one this morning I will now...........
Mark, the point Doug was making by linking the IMPBA rules is to show how your BOD needs to have some teeth. Right it seems you all have the same problem we faced a while back in that your BOD has no way to stop a proposal no matter how flawed it may be. We faced a similar situation with a rule proposal that was so screwed up it was ridiculous yet it still went out to the membership for vote. After dealing with that fiasco and the subsequent fallout from it that problem was addressed, I know because I wrote the fix for it that now appears in our rulebook as follows-

Rule Proposal under General Rules of Competition, Contest & Racing Rules,

Technical Standards, and Classes

Option #1-

All rule proposals supported by a majority of the Executive Board, will automatically undergo a trial period for one year (except as noted in section 1,C). After one year, the proposal will be distributed to IMPBA membership with a ballot that will require a head count for and against the proposal. Ballots shall be returned to the respective District Director or the IMPBA secretary within the time stipulated. The final vote of the Executive Board will be posted online and become effective as of the beginning of the next racing season. Results will also be published in the next Roostertail newsletter.

Option #2-

Board members vote by majority to turn down a submitted proposal. This option terminates the proposal.

Option #3-

All rule proposals not supported and not terminated under option #2 by the Board, will be distributed to IMPBA membership in December for vote by a ballot that will require a head count for or against the proposal. The membership vote will determine the implementation of said proposal and, if passed, will be effective as of the beginning of the next racing season. Results will also be published in the next Roostertail newsletter. All Racing Rule proposals reviewed by the Board will be published in the Roostertail for at least one full quarter before being voted on by the membership in December with the exception of one year trials.

Option #4-

Board members vote by majority to indefinitely table a submitted proposal. This option allows a proposal to be revisited at a later time determined at Boards discretion. A majority vote of the board required to re-visit proposal.

Honestly had this rule proposal been presented to the IMPBA in all likeyhood it would have gone right to the FE Director first for initial thoughts and feedback before it went out to the BOD for review and discussion at next meeting. And know this - in no way is this meant to bash NAMBA nor it's members many who are respected friends of mine but rather to help strengthen your organization. As it has become brutally apparent, this new rule you all made is a train wreck, just like what we went through. Let it be a lesson to serve to help strengthen the BOD for the good of it's members as a whole.

If IMPBA members accept this level of oversight then that’s great. I akin that kind of authority, without an avenue to override by member vote, as “absolute power corrupts absolutely.”

In a 4 to 1 vote margin it’s obvious some change was in order.

 

[Don Ferrette]

If IMPBA members accept this level of oversight then that’s great. I akin that kind of authority, without an avenue to override by member vote, as “absolute power corrupts absolutely.”
In a 4 to 1 vote margin it’s obvious some change was in order.

LMAO!! Other than the ability to kill a poorly conceived rule (such as what you just passed) the IMPBA members decide. You're right absolute power corrupts absolutely and you absolutely knew your BOD had no teeth to stop this train wreck.

4 to 1 vote margin.... yeah so you have 300 or so FE 1/8 scales? (wasn't it posted there was like 300 for, 100 against?) You busted Darin's balls because even though he's been an FE guy far longer than you he's not a scale guy - "I don’t ever remember seeing you run FE 1/8 Scale anywhere so why do you even care?" but it's ok that a bunch of non FE scale people voted on this? Being a hypocrite much?? Guess it wasn't too hard convincing non FE members to vote for something they knew nothing about..........

STILL WAITING for one of you to answer how you're going to accurately tech this rule pond side at a Nats or Record Trials where the very integrity of those events hangs in the balance of being able to do so.

Ya know some well known racers, FE racers, have been asking straight up questions and sharing obvious concerns looking for answers, well we see how that worked out. I think it's time to let the dogs out on this one and let it run it's course since you and a couple others on here supporting this keep dodging legitimate, serious questions and concerns even from long time well respected NAMBA members. You might seriously consider a future as a politician..........

 

[Bill Brandt]

If IMPBA members accept this level of oversight then that’s great. I akin that kind of authority, without an avenue to override by member vote, as “absolute power corrupts absolutely.”

In a 4 to 1 vote margin it’s obvious some change was in order.

LMAO!! Other than the ability to kill a poorly conceived rule (such as what you just passed) the IMPBA members decide. You're right absolute power corrupts absolutely and you absolutely knew your BOD had no teeth to stop this train wreck.
4 to 1 vote margin.... yeah so you have 300 or so FE 1/8 scales? (wasn't it posted there was like 300 for, 100 against?) You busted Darin's balls because even though he's been an FE guy far longer than you he's not a scale guy - "I don’t ever remember seeing you run FE 1/8 Scale anywhere so why do you even care?" but it's ok that a bunch of non FE scale people voted on this? Being a hypocrite much?? Guess it wasn't too hard convincing non FE members to vote for something they knew nothing about..........

STILL WAITING for one of you to answer how you're going to accurately tech this rule pond side at a Nats or Record Trials where the very integrity of those events hangs in the balance of being able to do so.

Ya know some well known racers, FE racers, have been asking straight up questions and sharing obvious concerns looking for answers, well we see how that worked out. I think it's time to let the dogs out on this one and let it run it's course since you and a couple others on here supporting this keep dodging legitimate, serious questions and concerns even from long time well respected NAMBA members. You might seriously consider a future as a politician..........

At 70 years old I won’t follow Trump into politics. I think I’ve been quite civil as opposed to the screamers here. The rule is the rule. If it requires teching well let’s leave that to the experts. Busting Darin’s balls? Certainly not my intent. Let’s just leave it Don that you’re the final authority on all things RC. I’m just a racer trying to enjoy. I can’t compete with you here or you’ll ban me so i’ll Behave myself and i’ll Shut up.

 

[Doug Smock]

Well isn't this special. We have a vendor shove a flawed rule set up the memberships azz and he's going to preach to us about corruption. It has never been clearer that the NAMBA rule amendment process is in dire need of some oversite.

 

[Don Ferrette]

If IMPBA members accept this level of oversight then that’s great. I akin that kind of authority, without an avenue to override by member vote, as “absolute power corrupts absolutely.”

In a 4 to 1 vote margin it’s obvious some change was in order.

LMAO!! Other than the ability to kill a poorly conceived rule (such as what you just passed) the IMPBA members decide. You're right absolute power corrupts absolutely and you absolutely knew your BOD had no teeth to stop this train wreck.
4 to 1 vote margin.... yeah so you have 300 or so FE 1/8 scales? (wasn't it posted there was like 300 for, 100 against?) You busted Darin's balls because even though he's been an FE guy far longer than you he's not a scale guy - "I don’t ever remember seeing you run FE 1/8 Scale anywhere so why do you even care?" but it's ok that a bunch of non FE scale people voted on this? Being a hypocrite much?? Guess it wasn't too hard convincing non FE members to vote for something they knew nothing about..........

STILL WAITING for one of you to answer how you're going to accurately tech this rule pond side at a Nats or Record Trials where the very integrity of those events hangs in the balance of being able to do so.

Ya know some well known racers, FE racers, have been asking straight up questions and sharing obvious concerns looking for answers, well we see how that worked out. I think it's time to let the dogs out on this one and let it run it's course since you and a couple others on here supporting this keep dodging legitimate, serious questions and concerns even from long time well respected NAMBA members. You might seriously consider a future as a politician..........

At 70 years old I won’t follow Trump into politics. I think I’ve been quite civil as opposed to the screamers here. The rule is the rule. If it requires teching well let’s leave that to the experts. Busting Darin’s balls? Certainly not my intent. Let’s just leave it Don that you’re the final authority on all things RC. I’m just a racer trying to enjoy. I can’t compete with you here or you’ll ban me so i’ll Behave myself and i’ll Shut up.

Ok maybe a comedian then? Ban you, now that's funny right there. I admire your consistency though, STILL dodging legitimate questions and concerns. He's a novel idea- just start answering the concerns of your fellow racers instead of this cop out reply.......

 

[Bill Brandt]

Theres been 6 or 8 folks here voicing concerns. I agree that in concert with John Bordens group in Texas I submitted our clubs rule for approval by the Namba membership. I dont know how they teched the rule before so I did not concern myself with that issue. Im sure racers smarter than me can make suggestions.

I have no idea what or if there was a problem with P limited so I wasnt familiar with a comparison problem.

I expect if racers are dissatisfied with the rule there will be changes in the future.

I would like all to please remember though that the rule proposed could not be modified at submission because we had to represent this was what we had been racing for at least one year.

There are those that say that the majority of yes votes came from folks that dont race 1/8 Scale FE. That is likely true however the people that reached out to me were saying thank you to finally have some idea of what to buy, put together and be competitive.

I have been accused of not answering the questions posed by dissenting posters. I dont necessarily have the answers. I earlier said I would stop posting on the thread. I was then accused of avoidance.

I cannot win this debate. I can not overcome dissenting posters. The only thing left is to become aggressive if I continue. Thats not who I am. To all Ive insulted, Im sorry.

I have nothing more to say.

 

[T.S.Davis]

You proposed a rule set you don't understand and sold it to members that didn't understand it either.

The guys smarter than you, the guys that wrote the rest of the electric sections are telling you verification of compliance can't be done at races. Wait.....not fair. The rule only requires it be labeled correctly. Anybody can read the C rate on the sticker. It's verification that the label is correct that is near impossible.

NAMBA guys......you need to take notice. The motivation for this proposal is/was "tell me exactly what to buy". By this thinking, all the classes should change to this. For P mono you by motor X from the book. For Q Offshore you by motor Y from the book. For T mono you buy motor Z from the book.

This thing is a disaster. There is no solve the way NAMBA is structured so you guys are stuck with it.

I've recieved multiple text from guys that are very concerned. Not over "scale". Numbers are still small regardless of the rule. The concern is over the relative ease with which this turd got through. The fear is what might be next. Maybe a Rev limiter? Who knows. Does not bode well for NAMBA.

 

[John Borden]

As I have stated I did support the new rule.

With the rule I was able to buy what was on the list and go race and not be a FE expert.

In D7 the rule work as we can help each other. I have taking my lumps last year. Had a fire [emoji91] ball at the Nats. But all was my doing not the rule.

Regrouped over the winter and this year much better.

Not know what motor batters ..... to us with the old rule was open to all if you do not know what is good or bad you might spend more the needed to get up to speed in FE.

We could look at the bright side this is the most we have talked about FE Scale in a long time. Now all the are talk bring out your boat to the next race and make the class and grow.

As John stated he has one of each. Offer the class at you next race so John and all the other can race build the class.

But bashing each other will not make the class grow.

Some of you might now me I been doing Scale long time.

I have run IMPBA, NAMBA and APBA. Yes I am old or stared when I was 9 all the same.

I love Scale this rule got 1/8 Scale back in D7 been dead for years.

We made more head way in 1 year then 4 year with Gas Scale. It a Scale. My son races it. It big take up lot of room in the trailer just so he can race a boat.

FE are small can go in the back of you car. Maybe let you son race the FE Scale and you run the Nitro Scale. That would build up the Scale class.

So over all I would like to see the class grow. Has it been growing not in my area.

We all can keep going back and forth until. But will that bring the FE Scale to the pond the weekend.

So I have a idea. Post this weekend of all the FE scales at the pond. Show support for the class. Build the class In Your are.

If you would like to talk Scale how to make the class grow I would be happy to talk to each of you.

PS if you know me you know I love to talk. Just ask for my number.

Hope to see the FE at the pond this weekend. Post up the video and photo love to see all the boat.

We love are Scale if we did not we would not be ready all of this.

Thanks see you at the pond.

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