Where in the hell is the OFF TOPIC THREAD on the forum?

[KenOlvis]

Divided we will fail
It's time to unite
True leadership is a must.

 

[Steve White]

As expected, the Biden economy is sputtering into stagflation...

https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/jobs-nonfarm-payroll-report-september-2021
Cue up the MSM and their endless array of rhetoric and excuses to cover his tracks.

What was once blame Bush is now blame Trump.

 

[Hydro Junkie]

What's even worse is Biden was actually almost "gleeful" at a recent press conference that people are being fired from their jobs due to not being immunized against Covid, regardless of the reasons why. I guess that's why he's opened the southern border, to get workers to fill the job vacancies created by firing those that can't or don't want to get the vaccine

 

[kyleboyer]

Kyle,

Seeing as the entire theory is based upon the assertion that the workers were somehow usurped of a means of production that they had installed themselves, which is factually and demonstrably false, literally anything that follows is equally false. One cannot calculate the legs of a oblique triangle after you have falsely stated that one angle is square. You can crunch all the numbers you like. They will all be wrong. To answer your question, refer to my earlier reference to that beloved cartoon: "All that you see." As I stated, it is the workers who have chosen capitalism. Democratically. And Marx abjectly defies this reality, despite having been wholly proven wrong from day one. Literally, every tenet of socialism has been completely and empirically debunked for more than a century.

Factually false. Prior to Marx, "property" was typically used in reference to land only, seeing as there was damned little "capital" that wasn't the land on which a labor was being exerted. It wasn't until Marx fabricated the distinction, purely for the purpose of the ruse, that there was any distinction. To 'splain it bluntly..... If you've put labor to it, either directly or indirectly, it is property you own and control. If not, it is not. Period. I don't know how to dumb it down any further.

Nope. You don't get to put words in or take words out of my mouth. I said what I meant. You have the right to food, drink shelter, etc, meaning you cannot be denied access to them, but you do not have the right to compel another's labor to provide them to you. If, in your fantastic world (meaning the stuff of fantasy), no natural resource was held control over, and, say, trees and stone were readily available for the harvesting, you would have the right to harvest them yourself, and do with them as you see fit. But you would not have the right to compel somebody else to harvest them for you without due compensation. The establishment of property rights, in regards to commercial production, has thoroughly proven itself beneficial to a civil society. We can readily see this in action if we look at a graph showing the transition from overwhelming majority agricultural to overwhelming majority industrial, in terms of labor hours contributed to the societal effort. People were no longer yoked to the immediate need to produce enough food to survive, but, rather, were freed up to start producing other commodities. Adam Smith and John Locke did make a note of this is their examination of property rights, and they have both since been roundly validated. No. You can't simply take what you want. But you are welcome to gain access through contribution to the societal effort. You know... Cut down your trees and exchange them for somebody else's stone. Or get paid to cut down somebody else's trees and exchange the currency you earned for somebody else's stone. Refer to the last statement of my previous paragraph for clarity. In all cases, without exception, access to resources requires far less labor on the part of the consumer than if they had ready access to them at their sources for the taking. In most cases, it is the labor that was required to bring a resource to your availability that you are exchanging your labor for (There is SOME truth to LTV, even if the main thrust is utterly false). Despite the typical decrying by the socialists, the closure of the commons made way for leisure and abundance, as a societal whole, not burden and scarcity. This is an historically, inarguably validated FACT.

Continued.....

I would have to write a book, to correct all the things you get wrong here, but we all know you don't read books....maybe a couple "google searches" and your'e an expert, right? So I am really wasting my time here.

A preamble if you will: Private property is for control: “By the law of nature, all men are free,” Private property is a construct of "positive law" (law enacted by human authority) “the sacred rights of liberty and of property come in conflict with each other, positive law, eclipsed natural law and the rights of individuals. ”-Chief Justice John Marshall 1825. If people were made property by positive law, then [the property owner] could expect the federal government and the Constitution to protect that property. Congress, with the Fugitive Slave Act of 1850, codified this understanding of property rights. The Supreme Court in the 1857 Dred Scott decision fully embraced slavery as a national institution. They, the oligarchical capitalist class aka, the property owner, doesn't need to keep you in shackles or whip you, to control you, they just keep you in debt*, with no rights to scarcity, unless you own it. That's been the strategy for a few thousand years now.

"Seeing as the entire theory is based upon the assertion that the workers were somehow usurped of a means of production that they had installed themselves....">>>This is not Marx's base theory, "Das Kapital" is a study of industrial production and how the advances in automation leads to exponential production gains. And that these gains, should lead to a reduction in labor hours required, giving people more leisure time. However he also points out correctly, that it is "financial capital"* (as opposed to industrial capital) that increases the cost of living, and this financial capital, is paid for off the backs of the workers, the ones who produce the goods and services, which translates into making the worker work longer hours, despite the gains in production. This is his basic premise.

" workers were somehow usurped of a means of production that they had installed themselves...">>>>This is a fact, there are countless accounts of this predating "biblical times" KJV Luke 19:21 "For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow".

"Factually false. Prior to Marx, "property" was typically used in reference to land only, seeing as there was damned little "capital"....">>>>Factually false eh? You're a hoot man. Land is where all the necessities of life reside. Land is where resources like gold, ore, wood, etc, (capital) are, the things that make the means of production possible. Private property is the (private) ownership of scarcity and the means of production. And this concept predates Marx. You can find it in the bible, philosophers like Socrates and or Aristotle talk about it being detrimental to society. Or here; an excerpt from Father lactanius (250-325 AD) what private property is for: "In order to enslave the many, the greedy began to appropriate and accumulate the necessities of life and to keep them tightly closed up"........"In the name of justice they made unfair and unjust laws, to sanction their thefts and avarice, against the power of the multitude....."

"To 'splain it bluntly..... If you've put labor to it, either directly or indirectly, it is property you own and control....">>>>This is what Marx claimed to be true, also. But He also explained how in reality this doesn't happen, what ever the worker produces, with his labor, belongs to the private property owner.

"As I stated, it is the workers who have chosen capitalism. Democratically...."Capitalism is a definition, it was not and is not chosen "democratically" by the workers, it is forced upon them by the property owner, since only property owners have rights to what they own which is the "necessities for life". And they back up this "right" with mercenaries and laws. No different really than feudalism. Consumerism is not a democratic vote for capitalism, since to vote against capitalism in that fashion, would require starvation, which highlights that capitalism is maintained by extortion.

"I said what I meant. You have the right to food, drink shelter, etc, meaning you cannot be denied access to them, ....">>>Where in the constitution does it say you have a "right" to food, drink shelter, etc, ??

"but you do not have the right to compel another's labor to provide them to you....">>>>Owning the "necessities of life" privately, and/or controlling what one needs to "access"(money), necessities of life, is in fact compelling one to labor. Internalize this.

"establishment of property rights, in regards to commercial production, has thoroughly proven itself beneficial to a civil society....">>>This is a true statement, in the context of industrial production, However what is implied, is that private property, was required to do so, which is false.

 

[Steve White]

What's even worse is Biden was actually almost "gleeful" at a recent press conference that people are being fired from their jobs due to not being immunized against Covid, regardless of the reasons why. I guess that's why he's opened the southern border, to get workers to fill the job vacancies created by firing those that can't or don't want to get the vaccine

Nah, opening the southern border to all comers had nothing to do with employment or workers - DEMOCRATIC VOTERS.

 

[Steve White]

I would have to write a book, to correct all the things you get wrong here, but we all know you don't read books....maybe a couple "google searches" and your'e an expert, right? So I am really wasting my time here.

A preamble if you will: Private property is for control: “By the law of nature, all men are free,” Private property is a construct of "positive law" (law enacted by human authority) “the sacred rights of liberty and of property come in conflict with each other, positive law, eclipsed natural law and the rights of individuals. ”-Chief Justice John Marshall 1825. If people were made property by positive law, then [the property owner] could expect the federal government and the Constitution to protect that property. Congress, with the Fugitive Slave Act of 1850, codified this understanding of property rights. The Supreme Court in the 1857 Dred Scott decision fully embraced slavery as a national institution. They, the oligarchical capitalist class aka, the property owner, doesn't need to keep you in shackles or whip you, to control you, they just keep you in debt*, with no rights to scarcity, unless you own it. That's been the strategy for a few thousand years now.

"Seeing as the entire theory is based upon the assertion that the workers were somehow usurped of a means of production that they had installed themselves....">>>This is not Marx's base theory, "Das Kapital" is a study of industrial production and how the advances in automation leads to exponential production gains. And that these gains, should lead to a reduction in labor hours required, giving people more leisure time. However he also points out correctly, that it is "financial capital"* (as opposed to industrial capital) that increases the cost of living, and this financial capital, is paid for off the backs of the workers, the ones who produce the goods and services, which translates into making the worker work longer hours, despite the gains in production. This is his basic premise.

" workers were somehow usurped of a means of production that they had installed themselves...">>>>This is a fact, there are countless accounts of this predating "biblical times" KJV Luke 19:21 "For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow".

"Factually false. Prior to Marx, "property" was typically used in reference to land only, seeing as there was damned little "capital"....">>>>Factually false eh? You're a hoot man. Land is where all the necessities of life reside. Land is where resources like gold, ore, wood, etc, (capital) are, the things that make the means of production possible. Private property is the (private) ownership of scarcity and the means of production. And this concept predates Marx. You can find it in the bible, philosophers like Socrates and or Aristotle talk about it being detrimental to society. Or here; an excerpt from Father lactanius (250-325 AD) what private property is for: "In order to enslave the many, the greedy began to appropriate and accumulate the necessities of life and to keep them tightly closed up"........"In the name of justice they made unfair and unjust laws, to sanction their thefts and avarice, against the power of the multitude....."

"To 'splain it bluntly..... If you've put labor to it, either directly or indirectly, it is property you own and control....">>>>This is what Marx claimed to be true, also. But He also explained how in reality this doesn't happen, what ever the worker produces, with his labor, belongs to the private property owner.

"As I stated, it is the workers who have chosen capitalism. Democratically...."Capitalism is a definition, it was not and is not chosen "democratically" by the workers, it is forced upon them by the property owner, since only property owners have rights to what they own which is the "necessities for life". And they back up this "right" with mercenaries and laws. No different really than feudalism. Consumerism is not a democratic vote for capitalism, since to vote against capitalism in that fashion, would require starvation, which highlights that capitalism is maintained by extortion.

"I said what I meant. You have the right to food, drink shelter, etc, meaning you cannot be denied access to them, ....">>>Where in the constitution does it say you have a "right" to food, drink shelter, etc, ??

"but you do not have the right to compel another's labor to provide them to you....">>>>Owning the "necessities of life" privately, and/or controlling what one needs to "access"(money), necessities of life, is in fact compelling one to labor. Internalize this.

"establishment of property rights, in regards to commercial production, has thoroughly proven itself beneficial to a civil society....">>>This is a true statement, in the context of industrial production, However what is implied, is that private property, was required to do so, which is false.

Good grief.

That comes under the section of "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”.

Thanks for the enlightenment - I never realized that BS could be stacked that high - just add a good solid pseudo intellectual binder and viola!

Nicely crafted spin job sir.

 

[Hydro Junkie]

Nah, opening the southern border to all comers had nothing to do with employment or workers - DEMOCRATIC VOTERS.

Trust me, I know. I was being sarcastic with my previous post just to see if anyone would jump down my throat about it. Results of my experiment were:
NOPE

 

[kyleboyer]

Good grief.

That comes under the section of "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”.

Thanks for the enlightenment - I never realized that BS could be stacked that high - just add a good solid pseudo intellectual binder and viola!

Nicely crafted spin job sir.

...."That comes under the section of "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that ....">>>>uh, except you forgot that these are tenets of natural law, and private property rights is based on positive law....

 

[Steve White]

...."That comes under the section of "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that ....">>>>uh, except you forgot that these are tenets of natural law, and private property rights is based on positive law....

No.....actually you forgot. Attempts to spin things waaaaaaaaaayyyyy off topic are futile.

Joe Biden is a useless slobbering *****.

 

[Steve White]

^^^ Here, I'll save you some time.

 

[kyleboyer]

No.....actually you forgot. Attempts to spin things waaaaaaaaaayyyyy off topic are futile.

Joe Biden is a useless slobbering *****.

View attachment 296405

"No.....actually you forgot. ....">>>>What is it I forgot? Positive law eclipses natural law. Internalize it.

"Attempts to spin things waaaaaaaaaayyyyy off topic are futile....">>>>Is it off topic, or is it that you don't understand how the system works, and therefore you believe the symptoms are the problem? When in fact it is the system fundamentals, that are the problem.

 

[Steve White]

"No.....actually you forgot. ....">>>>What is it I forgot? Positive law eclipses natural law. Internalize it.

"Attempts to spin things waaaaaaaaaayyyyy off topic are futile....">>>>Is it off topic, or is it that you don't understand how the system works, and therefore you believe the symptoms are the problem? When in fact it is the system fundamentals, that are the problem.

Here it is in visual format - as a mathematical expression - perhaps this will help you understand the basic concept.



BTW - Joe Biden is still a useless slobbering *****.

Have a great day sir!

 

[Don Ferrette]

Let's keep the meme's to a minimum fellas and if you must post as thumbnail, they chew up bandwidth we need to save for actual boating stuff.

 

[kyleboyer]

As expected, the Biden economy is sputtering into stagflation...

https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/jobs-nonfarm-payroll-report-september-2021
Cue up the MSM and their endless array of rhetoric and excuses to cover his tracks.

What was once blame Bush is now blame Trump.

"As expected, the Biden economy is sputtering into stagflation...">>>>Sure. But the Biden economy, is the same as the Trump economy, the same as the Obama economy, the same as the Bush economy, etc etc....because our economy hasn't "changed" since it was fundamentally changed in 1981, from that of Keynesian economics to Reaganomics (aka Neo-liberalism). That's right Stevie boy, we've been in Reaganomics for 40 years, that's something your favorite propaganda media outlet doesn't tell you. And it's all about Financialization of the economy, which sucks wealth out of the economy, which causes asset inflation, and debt inflation, which requires money to be pumped into the banking system (QE), and into the economy, to keep the bubble from popping...for Biden to stop this ( do do it right ), and to protect main street, he would need to nationalize banks and make those banks forgive all debts on the working class.....to stop the pending crash that will be on par with the "Great Depression".

 

[HTV Boats]

Here's what your boy, slobbering ***** Joe Biden is attempting - with his son Hunter on point.

Now Afghanistan makes sense - Biden handed the lithium deposits to the Taliban and China.

https://understandingdeeppolitics.o...eposits-after-us-withdrawal-from-afghanistan/
All the while making the US fully dependent upon China for Lithium batteries to power the new electric cars.

Google top 10 lithium mines and Australia and South America show up. Do some fact checking it's not hard.

 

[Steve White]

Google top 10 lithium mines and Australia and South America show up. Do some fact checking it's not hard.

Try deposits - the Chinese haven't moved in yet to help them setup the mining operations - natural resources.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/18/business/afghanistan-lithium-rare-earths-mining/index.html

 

[Steve White]

"As expected, the Biden economy is sputtering into stagflation...">>>>Sure. But the Biden economy, is the same as the Trump economy, the same as the Obama economy, the same as the Bush economy, etc etc....because our economy hasn't "changed" since it was fundamentally changed in 1981, from that of Keynesian economics to Reaganomics (aka Neo-liberalism). That's right Stevie boy, we've been in Reaganomics for 40 years, that's something your favorite propaganda media outlet doesn't tell you. And it's all about Financialization of the economy, which sucks wealth out of the economy, which causes asset inflation, and debt inflation, which requires money to be pumped into the banking system (QE), and into the economy, to keep the bubble from popping...for Biden to stop this ( do do it right ), and to protect main street, he would need to nationalize banks and make those banks forgive all debts on the working class.....to stop the pending crash that will be on par with the "Great Depression".

Kyle, let's not denigrate this direction either "Stevie boy" - I see your passion in this. No name calling of one another and try and stay on topic bro. If I slipped up in the heat of argument I apologize in advance and will edit posts to clean it up.

Joe Biden is a worthless turd.

Have a great day sir!

 

[Wasted wages]

Wait a minute, I thought "Joe Biden is a useless slobbering *****."

 

[Steve White]

Wait a minute, I thought "Joe Biden is a useless slobbering *****."

He Flip-Flops from useless slobbering ***** to worthless turd - typical flip-flopping democrat politician.

 

[Hydro Junkie]

Wait a minute, I thought "Joe Biden is a useless slobbering *****."

He is a useless slobbering *****. Hell, he can't even read a teleprompter anymore if that says anything.

"As expected, the Biden economy is sputtering into stagflation...">>>>Sure. But the Biden economy, is the same as the Trump economy, the same as the Obama economy, the same as the Bush economy, etc etc....because our economy hasn't "changed" since it was fundamentally changed in 1981, from that of Keynesian economics to Reaganomics (aka Neo-liberalism). That's right Stevie boy, we've been in Reaganomics for 40 years, that's something your favorite propaganda media outlet doesn't tell you. And it's all about Financialization of the economy, which sucks wealth out of the economy, which causes asset inflation, and debt inflation, which requires money to be pumped into the banking system (QE), and into the economy, to keep the bubble from popping...for Biden to stop this ( do do it right ), and to protect main street, he would need to nationalize banks and make those banks forgive all debts on the working class.....to stop the pending crash that will be on par with the "Great Depression".

NOT TRUE!!!!!!
We have never had shortages of products getting to the stores, at least not in my lifetime,(other than gas during the oil embargo from the early 1970s but that was a different problem) due to workers not working. That is a government created problem that has been extended and exacerbated by the Democratic majority in Congress. There was no reason to keep paying employed/employable people to stay home as long as they did unless it was the intension of the Democrats to create further problems that they would then blame on the Trump administration, even though just about every major problem/fiasco has been due to one of the following:

• the Democrats trying to make the population dependent on the government
• Brain-dead, bought and paid for Biden doing what the "Squad" and the rest of his handlers tell him to do
• Brain-dead, bought and paid for Biden trying to appease his allies in China, Ukraine, Russia and everywhere else after being bought off through the unskilled, drug guzzling Hunter

You can spin this any way you want but, no matter how you spin it, it still comes down to a mess created by and for the Democrats. If we want to see the economy rebound, and it will, "inept" Biden and the Democrats need to:

1. Make people go back to work instead of paying them to stay home
2. Complete the Keystone pipeline
3. Secure the southern border
4. START OBEYING AND ENFORCING THE LAWS AS THEY SWORE TO DO WHEN THEY TOOK THE OATH OF OFFICE!!!!!