Is the OB class doomed?

[Mark Poole ModVP]

The idea of an open outboard class (nitro) where all engine sizes are in the same race is kinda cool. In the past in open tunnel class I have not seen problems with the water being too rough from the larger nitro boats. That problem comes when you run the big gas tunnels with nitro.
What got me thinking about hull size grouping was the availability of other brands of engines that could be converted to outboard. Bob Kensill showed up a the the internats one year with a .28 car engine on his 20 tunnel and other racers noticed it before the race began. Bob told the CD that the engine had a .21 sleeve and it would pass inspection.
Let's face it, it will be hard to get more people into outboards when the only bolt on ready engine is $500 plus. I really don't understand why K&B will not bring back the 3.5 SX for around $350-$400. They would sell.

See, this is where the hull size grouping would free up and allow some different and odd size engines. There is NO engine restriction or inspection (Only the F class cap). You would choose what you think is your best combo to use in the 30 inch class, the 31 to 36 class and over 36 class. I think this would make some 'light bulbs' come on and you would see some interesting boats put together. We can talk up lots of ideas but ultimately we have to go the pond and try them.

 

[Davidkrienke]

I personally believe we just have way to many options in all three disciplines and it's completely watered down all but the strongest of classes.
Joining the two organizations may help as well, there's just not that many people serious about racing.

Kids now days just don't care about hobbies. They just want the a/c the soda pop and a computer game /phone. It is up to the parents to get them sidetracked from these things and open their eyes to having fun without digital media 24/7.Model rocketry used to be a good way to get them started but that is harder and harder to find unless you have a hobby town close.

 

[Carl Van Houten]

I will put this out there for y'all to think about. The facts are, the current direction for outboards is FE. Yep I said it...There are some hard core nitro heads that had rather take a cain pole whipping from girl than to switch to FE. I used to be that type of outboard guy but let's face it, you can buy the motors off the shelf. So we have a fix for that.

Now what type hull will you put your Ultra high RPM (some are turning 70k) heat sensitive little FE outboard power plant on? Here are your choices:
1) Mono
2) Tunnel Hull
3) Hydro

The mono just doesn't pair well with the outboard so that's out. The tunnel hull is better but laying a pair of snow skis down in the water in the turns makes for a tricky heat sensitive setup but it does work and nobody wants an outboard hydro. I'm not sure why but these boats have never been popular BUT if you want to run outboards and you can buy FE motors and everything you need to run them then why would you not put your outboard on the hull that will provide you with the least slip ratio? AND what comes along with that is reduced HEAT. In the FE game, HEAT is the enemy.


The perfect boat for the FE outboard is the Outboard Hydro.

 

[Grimracer]

My grandson is into Legos.. AT LEAST he is reading instructions and using his hands.. (he is signed up for his first CAD classes in school next year.)

His dad has none of these interests and its up to my Grandson to take this done.

COME ON JAKIN.. GET IT DONE.. (he is 12). Gramps will be there for you when and if you want more. (doing what I can!)

He is not allowed a Phone and Video games are SAT ONLY.. IF.. he gets his chores done... (Huge Props for that!)

Grim

 

[Grimracer]

I will put this out there for y'all to think about. The facts are, the current direction for outboards is FE. Yep I said it...There are some hard core nitro heads that had rather take a cain pole whipping from girl than to switch to FE. I used to be that type of outboard guy but let's face it, you can buy the motors off the shelf. So we have a fix for that.

Now what type hull will you put your Ultra high RPM (some are turning 70k) heat sensitive little FE outboard power plant on? Here are your choices:
1) Mono
2) Tunnel Hull
3) Hydro

The mono just doesn't pair well with the outboard so that's out. The tunnel hull is better but laying a pair of snow skis down in the water in the turns makes for a tricky heat sensitive setup but it does work and nobody wants an outboard hydro. I'm not sure why but these boats have never been popular BUT if you want to run outboards and you can buy FE motors and everything you need to run them then why would you not put your outboard on the hull that will provide you with the least slip ratio? AND what comes along with that is reduced HEAT. In the FE game, HEAT is the enemy.


The perfect boat for the FE outboard is the Outboard Hydro.

Hi Carl,

If piston engines go away how does that help anybody?

I have raced both FE and Nitro boats and really like clock time much better with a piston engine.

Me..
I ENJOY piston engines.. I like the CHALLANGES they provide and TEACHING people to learn them as that's fun too.. I like racing them and the challenges they demand on the race course. (ANYBODY can ask me ANYTHING about what's going on in a heat and if I can, I am happy to help them get faster too..)

I prefer PISTON ENGINES! If somebody wants to use electric power.. AWESOME.. me.. I... LIKE.. PISTON.... ENGINES.....

Why call people like me out on that...

Its not that i cant switch.. (my contest scale helis are electric).. BUT I PREFER PISTON ENGINES IN RC BOATING!

Grim

 

[Tim Kish]

Both of my kids raced when they were young, and loved it.
As they got older, friends and other interests became more important.
I still ask them every time I go testing to join me hoping one day they will!

 

[Tim Kish]

Hi Carl,

If piston engines go away how does that help anybody?

I have raced both FE and Nitro boats and really like cock time much better with a piston engine.

Me..
I ENJOY piston engines.. I like the CHALLANGES they provide and TEACHING people to learn them as that's fun too.. Like like racing them and the challenges they demand on the race course. (ANYBODY can ask me ANYTHING about what's going on in a heat and if I can, I am happy to help them get faster too..)

I prefer PISTON ENGINES! If somebody wants to use electric power.. AWESOME.. me.. I... LIKE.. PISTON.... ENGINES.....

Why call people like me out on that...

Its not that i cant switch.. (my contest scale helis are electric).. BUT I PREFER PISTON ENGINES IN RC BOATING!

Grim

So do I, especially Nitro!

 

[Davidkrienke]

Nitro gives you so much more bang for the buck as far as run time and smells fabulous. I still find myself saying man I love that smell when I get a whiff of the oil smoke coming off the water .

 

[Carl Van Houten]

Nobody is going to keep anybody from running piston engines. Run them. Enjoy them. I'm all for it, I love nitro too. I ran nothing but nitro outboard tunnels for 40 years. I loved them and still do. I have had to adapt to the new direction of outboards. I would love to get a notice that Nova Rossi had engines back on the shelf or K&B but the truth is you can't expect to tell these new guys that are wanting to run outboards that he/she will have to hob-knob old engines off of ebay to set up and outboard.

I understand your loyalty to piston engines but its time to make a move and get the numbers back up. There is no reason we can't have both either. I predict that you will see piston engines show up for a few years down the road but if someone doesn't come along and produce some engines soon...well, is it going to be nitro or nothing? Let's be more accepting of other options. I once said I would never run and electric boat but I'm eating those words now. FE is exciting! These new motors turn 70,000 RPM's ! It's NUTS!

It may not be for everybody but times have changed. I am going to say that if it were not for FE outboards would not be looking to good right now. Keep running what you want. If it gas if its nitro if its FE. I want to be open minded and I want to help. That's all.

The boat I have designed to help (at least I hope it helps generate some interest) will be sold at my cost. I don't want to make a penny. Instead I hope to see a class blow up and everybody want to run one.

Brian's idea about making a sheet up that gives the new guy (like me) the information needed to build the right setup to compete. In FE I am a new guy and I need answers because thank goodness there are lots of choices in FE and I don't want to let the smoke out of anything because nobody told me something important.

This is going to be fun for the ones who are interested. I hope that there are more old guys out there who are at least willing to try this.

I have attached a snapshot of my new Sun Downer II FE-Nitro prototype. This model can be built FE or Nitro with what comes in the kit. I will be making these available at my cost in a laser-cut wooden model. I already have five people ready to build and test them. I am trying to create options for yall. This boat will most likely easily race in the 70's. The model will be simple to build, cheap, and there will be options that you can choose to set it up with. ITS NOT JUST FOR FE.

Hopefully this will be a fun alternative for outboard guys.

 

[Davidkrienke]

Nobody is going to keep anybody from running piston engines. Run them. Enjoy them. I'm all for it, I love nitro too. I ran nothing but nitro outboard tunnels for 40 years. I loved them and still do. I have had to adapt to the new direction of outboards. I would love to get a notice that Nova Rossi had engines back on the shelf or K&B but the truth is you can't expect to tell these new guys that are wanting to run outboards that he/she will have to hob-knob old engines off of ebay to set up and outboard.

I understand your loyalty to piston engines but its time to make a move and get the numbers back up. There is no reason we can't have both either. I predict that you will see piston engines show up for a few years down the road but if someone doesn't come along and produce some engines soon...well, is it going to be nitro or nothing? Let's be more accepting of other options. I once said I would never run and electric boat but I'm eating those words now. FE is exciting! These new motors turn 70,000 RPM's ! It's NUTS!

It may not be for everybody but times have changed. I am going to say that if it were not for FE outboards would not be looking to good right now. Keep running what you want. If it gas if its nitro if its FE. I want to be open minded and I want to help. That's all.

The boat I have designed to help (at least I hope it helps generate some interest) will be sold at my cost. I don't want to make a penny. Instead I hope to see a class blow up and everybody want to run one.

Brian's idea about making a sheet up that gives the new guy (like me) the information needed to build the right setup to compete. In FE I am a new guy and I need answers because thank goodness there are lots of choices in FE and I don't want to let the smoke out of anything because nobody told me something important.

This is going to be fun for the ones who are interested. I hope that there are more old guys out there who are at least willing to try this.

That is so true getting into Fe . We have sure smoked some stuff mainly cheap flycolor esc's and not using a inline amp meter to check amp draw before running them hard is a must as well. I agree too that the rpm that you are able to get from the Fe motors is just insane and makes getting a 100mph both a easy task as long as your pocket book is fat enough. Gas engines is a way cheaper option in the long run for fuel costs. I think that is why a lot of nitro boaters you see switching over. You are right though just getting out there talking to people and enjoying the day is the one of the great reasons to do this .Bring anything that floats I say and just enjoy yourself.

 

[Mark Poole ModVP]

Has anyone rigged up an FE OB rigger and zipped it around the course for 8 laps? There is some drag when you pivot it around the turns on that big turn fin. I would agree that a rigger would have more speed potential without blowing over. FE OB MONO? That would be a who can get to the finish class!

It will most likely be a FE OB that gets to 100 mph first.

 

[Grimracer]

With FE racing you will ALWAYS be chasing the technology at an accelerated rate compared to Nitro.

I remember the first time i put on that FAST PROP I HAD CUSTOM DONE on my nitro tunnel... I was like.. OBOY.. here we go......

Bolt her on and apply the starter and she fired up.. I was floating on air as I was heading to the waters edge to see the looks on my buddy's faces as I SCORCED the lake with this bad boy!

With all my excitement I launch the boat.... and.. it died.. ya all know why.. me to in that moment it was just "to much prop"

Then..

I remember the first time i put on that FAST PROP I HAD CUSTOM DONE on my FE tunnel... I was like.. OBOY.. here we go......

Bolt her on and plug in the battery.. I was floating on air as I was heading to the waters edge to see the looks on my buddy's faces as I SCORCED the lake with this bad boy!

With all my excitement I launch the boat.... and.. it took off like a shot.. a minuet later the whole dam thing was letting the smoke out ya all know why.. me to in that moment it was just "to much prop"

The difference.. about 2 hundred bucks...

Grim

 

[Carl Van Houten]

With FE racing you will ALWAYS be chasing the technology at an accelerated rate compared to Nitro.

I remember the first time i put on that FAST PROP I HAD CUSTOM DONE on my nitro tunnel... I was like.. OBOY.. here we go......

Bolt her on and apply the starter and she fired up.. I was floating on air as I was heading to the waters edge to see the looks on my buddy's faces as I SCORCED the lake with this bad boy!

With all my excitement I launch the boat.... and.. it died.. ya all know why.. me to in that moment it was just "to much prop"

Then..

I remember the first time i put on that FAST PROP I HAD CUSTOM DONE on my FE tunnel... I was like.. OBOY.. here we go......

Bolt her on and plug in the battery.. I was floating on air as I was heading to the waters edge to see the looks on my buddy's faces as I SCORCED the lake with this bad boy!

With all my excitement I launch the boat.... and.. it took off like a shot.. a minuet later the whole dam thing was letting the smoke out ya all know why.. me to in that moment it was just "to much prop"

The difference.. about 2 hundred bucks...

Grim

There is ways to prevent that from ever happening. The gurus have all that figured out. No Smoke!

 

[Grimracer]

DO TELL.. slipper Clutch? Auto current sensing?

Because.. in the game of RC BOATING.. (until your racing) Its all about how fast you can go.. PERIOD! (10 years of development for the market and introducing new people into the hobby did not come with out that lesson!)

The game of OUT DRIVE SOMEBODY.. is not even on there radar!

At least with a nitro boat you did not blow the cowl off the boat and have to buy a quart of "Funk Elimantor" to get the black out of your boat.. IF you COULD save it...

The nitro boat.. would just quit...

You know that FE T SHIRT I GOT.. that darn thing is LAYERS thick..

Do I think there is a fix.. nope........... not until the user, if they don't quit because of a burn down decides there is MORE to RC boating then going as fast as they can. NOW you have a racer...

In the end you can NOT catch them all and save them BEFORE they burn it down.. Its a tricky deal for sure...


Grim

 

[Carl Van Houten]

Well... I don't think these boat are bursting into flames very often. There was a time when you would see that happen every now and then but FE has come a LONG WAY since those days.

 

[Grimracer]

Something to note regarding this.. the second failure type.. (more often then you think)

The they spent the big bucks and now they are going to be careful with it.. they drive it slow for the first pack or so.

I have seen cowls launch several feet into the air with this.. LOL Sounds like a shot gun..LOL

But again.. I never going to convince anybody of any of this unless they worked in the industry.

Ever seen a van or trailer gutted by a lipo.. no.. I have.. Sure we have better chargers and more knowledge but one has to APPLY that to make it work.

(Again.. I fly Electric Scale Helicopters) my battery routine with them is A PAIN IN THE ASS..

Do you have lipos in your work shop right now? If not where are they.. (good things to think about if you want to help others)

Grim

 

[Carl Van Houten]

If you are worried about your batteries blowing up during the night for some reason, stop by Harbor Freight and pick up a metal ammo box. This is a common practice. Drop them in there and latch it down and put them in a cool place. Mic keeps his in a little dorm size refrigerator. You can keep them down to 47degrees f with no chemical related issues.

 

[Bill Gibson]

I race both nitro and electric boats ,and enjoy running both, and like it or not electric is the no1 most used power source in the R/C hobby OVERALL! It is here to stay! and if it is so dangerous , then why is it so POPULAR with Cars, Airplanes, Helis, and yes probably even boats if you include those who run boats for fun and dont race them! Most accidents that have occurred with Lipos were the result of misuse of the battery in a number of ways! And yes they are a bigger PIA to use and maintain than a good old nitro powered model, but like anything you learn and then you do! I dont see why certain FE classes couldnt run with the nitro classes......I believe that its already being done at the Brandon model club races, but Ron Drake would have to verify that! The whole idea is to get the outboards to the races!!

 

[Carl Van Houten]

Has anyone rigged up an FE OB rigger and zipped it around the course for 8 laps? There is some drag when you pivot it around the turns on that big turn fin. I would agree that a rigger would have more speed potential without blowing over. FE OB MONO? That would be a who can get to the finish class!

It will most likely be a FE OB that gets to 100 mph first.

The rigger hydro (inboard or outboard) has less wetted surface than a tunnel boat when turning. It will have the best slip rate of any of the other hulls mentioned and will produce the least amount of heat through the turns compared to the others.

 

[Grimracer]

If you are worried about your batteries blowing up during the night for some reason, stop by Harbor Freight and pick up a metal ammo box. This is a common practice. Drop them in there and latch it down and put them in a cool place. Mic keeps his in a little dorm size refrigerator. You can keep them down to 47degrees f with no chemical related issues.

really. do you think we did not test this at Hobbico.. PLEASE.. want to see an ammo cover become a projectile. LOL.. I am here to tell you the best you can do is DIRECT THE FLAME.. I have TONS OF background on LIPOS.. PLEASE HEED ALL WARNINGS!