Indoor shooting range

[Robert Pickard]

A store here has till end of next week 50 percent off on all guns thinking of getting a glock 9

 

[Brad Christy]

Guys,

I am personally not a fan of the polymer movement in the gun industry. I am firmly of the opinion that guns are made from steel, toys are made of plastic. That said, I've seen the videos of the "Glock Torture Test". They are phenomenally resilient to dirt and wear, and they are, as Don pointed out, very well designed. You can't go wrong with a Glock. All that said: You'll never see a polymer frame handgun coming out of Les Baer's shop. 'Nuff said.

I also feel you can't go wrong with a Kimber. I have a .45 ACP Compact Custom. It is one of the smoothest action guns I've ever fired. I can tell you that I am far more accurate with my Kimber than I am with my buddy's Glock (same specs other than the obvious) and I attribute that to recoil control. The heavier gun, while the obvious drawbacks apply, will always be more accurate due to recoil.

I also have to agree with Don's choice in caliber. I'd much rather have to hit my target once. I've read several police reports of officers dropping full 9mm magazines into a perp, only to have to wrestle them to the ground. That doesn't happen with a .45, even with ball ammo. I'm not suggesting a kill is the only solution, but rather survival is the only acceptable outcome. If I HAVE to shoot, I want it to count with minimal collateral risk. I have a box of Civil Defense rounds for my .45. With a 72gr slug at 1900fps (as opposed to 230gr at around 900fps with ball ammo), they are absolutely devastating to the first object of impact, but they won't penetrate both layers of sheetrock and end up hitting someone in an adjacent room.

Personal opinion: If you're shooting for recreation, go with a .32, 9mm or .380. If you're looking to carry, go with a .40 or .45. If you're looking for home defense, absolute minimum of .45. My uncle used to say a 12ga is the only choice for home defense, if for no other reason than that "There ain't NOBODY doesn't recognize the sound of a pump shotgun being shucked". He said if you've got someone in your home and they don't turn tail when you cycle a pump shotgun, you'd better just take aim and fire, because they've already made a choice.

Bottom line, take a few options to the range and throw some lead through them. Make several trips if you have to. Find one that fits your needs, feels "natural" to shoot and is in the budget. Do some research on MFR's and model lines, as there are almost uncountable options out there. One suggestion, though: Buy your second gun first. Buy with your head, not your wallet. Selling it down the road may prove difficult with some of the legislations underway. Make sure you get the one you're gonna be happy with.

Jim,

Not to worry, there is nothing political in any of this. What you asked about before could only be answered by exposing the political charge causing your observation. If you weren't asking for an explanation, I apologize.

Thanks. Brad.

Titan Racing Components

BlackJack Hydros

Model Machine And Precision LLC

 

[moparbarn]

Brad, in the words of Kelly Johnson "Don't halfheartedly wound a problem, kill it dead" or as I heard a police shooting instructer say "If you shoot to wound, you're already dead". I hope none of us ever have to use any of our guns for self defense, but if you do, be prepared to kill someone. DO NOT EVER pull a weapon without the intent to use it. Otherwise, you may be the one in the morgue. I also agree with your uncle. The Colt Cobra is within my wife's reach at night, my Browning A-5 is within my reach. It may not be a pump, but chambering a round makes a VERY similar & recognizable sound.

 

[Don Ferrette]

If I go to the grave only firing my pistols and rifles at the range or out in the country plinking targets with friends I will die a happy man. That being said my choice for a large caliber handgun for close range protection comes down to one simple thing- nobody knows how they will react or how much time they have when that life or death moment comes. You might only get off one shot, two if you are lucky so you want them to count which is why the clip in my nightstand is loaded with 230 grain hollow point rounds, all I have to do is hit the target once. I am friends with numerous law enforcement types and they all say the same thing, if your life is in imminent danger and you must shoot then shoot to kill......

 

[Ben Ballard]

Man it's nice to see a gun topic that nobody has gone off the deep end with! I have to agree with all that was said. I keep a 1911 in close reach at all times. But my old trusty is a ruger gp .357. No jam, no hassle, and with 147 grain hollow points no problems. The best gun for you is the one that feels right to you and time at the range is the only thing that will tell you. The newest, trickest, lightest, biggest, prettyest, won't do you any good if you don't like to shoot it or can't hit sqwat with it.

 

[Marty Slater]

I want to thank you all for the GOOD info

an NOT taking this a stray

the last 4 post make a hell of a lot of sense THANK YOU

Marty

 

[JimZaremski]

You'll never see a polymer frame handgun coming out of Les Baer's shop.

yeah, but that's 'cos he makes a pretty penny on all the labor needed to make a 1911 shoot

and that's OK, I'm as big a fan as anyone of the 1911 (I've got a Colt Commander and am looking at a Springfield Mil-Spec) but it's got to be remembered that its design is over 100 years old. It takes a lot of hand-fitting and precision gunsmithing to build one which will be reliable and accurate. Glocks aren't "race" guns but they're plenty accurate. and IME far less picky about ammo.

 

[Brad Christy]

Jim,

John Browning was way ahead of his time. The 1911 is a near perfect design, as proven by the fact that it's nearly unchanged in over 100 years. Most any quality made 1911 will cycle perfectly, right out of the box, without any "work". Kimber, Springfield, Sig, CZ, Ruger, among others, are all prime examples of range-ready-off-the-shelf, steel frame automatics and are all in what I'd call the "affordable" range. Some of the "knock-off" MFRs are total junk, and to be avoided at all costs, regardless of any work done to them.

Yes, the Les Baer models are VERY spendy (some well over $6K), but to those who can afford it, they are well worth it. The actions are like silk, they suffer almost zero wear from hundreds of thousands of rounds and they are accurate as Hell.

I'm not knocking polymer frame handguns other than I'll never have any in my collection. They've obviously proven their reliability in the field and their market worthiness. My only real concern with them is in the area of stress fatigue in the long run. I know the aluminum frames suffer in this area, having a far shorter life expectancy than steel frames, so I have to think the polymer frames would, as well.

FWIW, I haven't found an ammo brand I can't put through my Kimber. I have had far more problems finding spare magazines that work properly (without coughing up "Kimber-cash"). I've put a couple thousand rounds through it since buying it this last fall and it just shoots whatever I load it up with. I know there are those who've had issues, but so far, I haven't had a problem. Mostly what I shoot now-a-days comes from Brass Kings. They are a father and son reloading operation from Michigan, processing about 10M rounds a year to Winchester and Remingon specs. They've obviously got a highly automated operation going. All the ammo looks like new and comes matched in bags. I've never found casings from multiple MFRs in the same bag. At $.33/rd, it's about as cheap as I've ever found, and it fires flawlessly. If you've never, they are well worth checking out.

Don,

I have to disagree (light-heartedly..... I knew what you meant). I'll never "only get one shot off". I'm also a firm believer in the "double-tap". If there's truly a need to pull the trigger, it's well worth the "second round insurance". I've been practicing holster drills a lot for a while now. In a standing "ready" position, with my eyes closed, draw, open eyes and drop the hammer twice in rapid succession. You'd be surprised how bad of a shot you are compared to typical range firing. After months of empty-chamber, "muscle memory" blind draws at home, then onto the range with a loaded gun, I'm just about to where I can hit the paper (6" target on standard 8.5x11 sheet) with both shots at 21ft. I can typically put 100+ rounds through, keeping them all well within the black at a similar distance under "relaxed" range practice. Holster drills are something altogether different, but they will prepare you for that worst-case-scenario we all hope we never have to deal with.

As for the revolver/ACP debate......... My 11yo son has had about three "stovepipes" with our Kimber, and that's only because he lacks the body mass to contain the recoil enough to totally eliminate the possibility. A well maintained, quality made ACP should "never" jam. A revolver, barring some nearly unforeseen failure, will never jam, I get it. But in exchange for that small increase in reliability, it suffers in the area of reload time (unless you're THAT guy.......). In the event of a prolonged altercation (worse than worst case), I'll take my ACP over a revolver any day, if for no other reason than that I can have a fresh seven rounds to work within a couple short seconds. Some immortal words I overheard at a gun show recently: "They might get me, but it won't be because I ran out".

Thanks. Brad.

Titan Racing Components

BlackJack Hydros

Model Machine And Precision LLC

 

[bsmtboy2]

Don remind me to show you how to make your hollow points reall count with Drano....

 

[julianconde]

I have a S&W tactical 40, diamondback 380, NFA short barrel riffle, Keltec KSG shotgun and Keltec Sub 2000.

If I ever have to protect myself you best believe 2 to the chest and one in the head. Wins every time.

 

[bsmtboy2]

For home defense I agree on the double tap system I just amp it up with a raoufuss round followed by a round of "Willy Pete" and down goes the threat.

 

[Ray Sametz]

Back on track. Said I liked range shooting, well went to Police station for Firearms ID card application and have an appointment for fingerprinting. Hope AFIS doesn't open any cold cases.

Only kidding.

 

[Bob Morton]

Now I feel very safe traveling with The Hammer. (*¿*)

Nails

 

[Doug Smock]

Got a good holster fellas?

http://concealednation.org/2016/02/when-bad-holsters-turn-worse-this-guy-took-one-right-in-the-a-heres-why-a-proper-holster-is-essential/

 

[Glenn Gates]

Ray, I've only been to an indoor range once. Very nice. I was living in Northern Utah at the time it was mid Jan. and about 15 degrees outside and 70 degrees inside. Like Robin pointed out they also rented handguns so you could try out whatever you liked(without buying it). I went with about a dozen co-workers and we tried each others weapons also. Good way to find out what fits you well. I got to try out a .45 Win. Mag. Very nice shooter but the owner could not hit a darn thing with it. Some people are more bothered by muzzle blast and recoil than others better to find out before you buy than after.

 

[Ray Sametz]

Went skeet shooting yesterday, had a blast (pun). Hit 4 out of 5 first time from station 1. Did well for a beginner moving station to station. Only stayed about hour and half, it was cold and wind picked up. Another addiction I think.

 

[Brad Christy]

Ray,

Never did any skeet, but shot a lot of trap with my dad over the years. Very similar, with a few significant differences. Yes, it could very easily become addictive as they are both a lot of fun. My dad belonged to the Pulaski County Outdoorsman and spent many hours on the trap range. He also spent a lot of time at his reloading station he had set up in his basement. After he passed away, we went through his inventory. He had almost 25K rounds of 12ga trap loads ready to go, over 50K empty shells and wads, over a ton (

) of #8 shot in 50lb bags and enough powder to level his house. We used to joke that he could be found in one of three places: At the trap range, in his reloading "cave" or in his Lay-Z-Boy, sleeping through a golf tournament. Back in the day, long before I was around, he was actually making money shooting trap. No sponsorships or anything, just tournament purse money outran the cost of shooting/reloading. It took up a tremendous amount of time, though, which is why he eventually gave it up, only to pick it back up later in life.

Be careful. This shooting thing grows on ya and ain't cheap. Don't think about it too much, though. If you think about the $.35 for each round every time you pull the trigger, you won't enjoy it nearly as much. Shoot now, regret later.

Thanks. Brad.

Titan Racing Components

BlackJack Hydros

Model Machine And Precision LLC

 

[Ray Sametz]

Ray,

Never did any skeet, but shot a lot of trap with my dad over the years. Very similar, with a few significant differences. Yes, it could very easily become addictive as they are both a lot of fun. My dad belonged to the Pulaski County Outdoorsman and spent many hours on the trap range. He also spent a lot of time at his reloading station he had set up in his basement. After he passed away, we went through his inventory. He had almost 25K rounds of 12ga trap loads ready to go, over 50K empty shells and wads, over a ton (

) of #8 shot in 50lb bags and enough powder to level his house. We used to joke that he could be found in one of three places: At the trap range, in his reloading "cave" or in his Lay-Z-Boy, sleeping through a golf tournament. Back in the day, long before I was around, he was actually making money shooting trap. No sponsorships or anything, just tournament purse money outran the cost of shooting/reloading. It took up a tremendous amount of time, though, which is why he eventually gave it up, only to pick it back up later in life.

Be careful. This shooting thing grows on ya and ain't cheap. Don't think about it too much, though. If you think about the $.35 for each round every time you pull the trigger, you won't enjoy it nearly as much. Shoot now, regret later.

Thanks. Brad.

Titan Racing Components

BlackJack Hydros

Model Machine And Precision LLC

I think what we did was a cross between both called 5 stand. 5 rounds at 5 stations with clays moving away instead of across. Guy next to us was shooting solo, had a voice activated device like a phone on his belt. He yelled pull and clays fired off. There's got to be a better way to pickup all them empty shells, Oh my aching back.

 

[Brad Christy]

Ray,

Two options for your empties: Shoot an over/under and don't let them fly when you break the breach or bring a "slave" with you and have them pick them up. That was my son's role the last time we went to the trap range with my dad.

Sounds like you were shooting "skeet" on a trap range. One traphouse?

Thanks. Brad.

Titan Racing Components

BlackJack Hydros

Model Machine And Precision LLC

 

[Ray Sametz]

Ray,

Two options for your empties: Shoot an over/under and don't let them fly when you break the breach or bring a "slave" with you and have them pick them up. That was my son's role the last time we went to the trap range with my dad.

Sounds like you were shooting "skeet" on a trap range. One traphouse?

Thanks. Brad.

Titan Racing Components

BlackJack Hydros

Model Machine And Precision LLC

Yup one trap house...........did fire an O/U and pocketed those shells. It was the pumps making the work.

It's all good, lots of fun.