I'M gonna get slammed

[Norm Doerr]

I ran nitro hydros on Belle Isle, with the WMRBA, in the 70's. 
By '73 (+ or - a year) Tim Ries and Charley Sweet were building Crapshooters.  At that time, I don't know how long they had been working on the concept.

There was no Coyote (that I know of) at that time.  Pinkert's outrigger at that time was called a Gator.

I don't know which had appeared first, the Crapshooter or the Gator.

I do know, at that same time, Ron Walker (WMRBA) had an outrigger design that was like an open source computer program.  Anyone in the club could get the info needed to build one and all the help they needed to make it run, from either Ron, Skip Fricke, or anyone else who had built one. There were quite a few people running them in the club and quite a few variations on the design.

It would probably take a true "old salt" like Hughey or Pruesse to get a real idea who was working with the outrigger concept first.

KW

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This is true. The Crapshooter was around a LOOOOONNNNGG time before the RR, which was developed off the Coyote. Crapshooters were made in Ferndale then Ries sold the operation to Marty Davis. Marty made 600 boats a year. I think in the mid seventies you could run a Crapshooter,(which most everyone did in Detroit) And there was the Hughy Rigger, The Gator out of FL. and of course you could get an old Wing Ding. Those were the days. LOL

 

[Norm Doerr]

Thanks for the info Kevin. I knew I wasn't too far off of the time frame. I would have said it was about 73-74 that the "Belle Isle Boys" were starting into the riggers. Where are you from and how did you know some of that history? Were you involved with the Wolverines?

Chris,

I grew up in Detroit. I ran nitro hydros in the Wolverine Miniature Race Boat Association, when I was in my teens.

I had a Buck-R-Too, a big fiberglass shovelnose (around 44") with a Rossi 60 and later (around '75) I built a Ron Walker outrigger variant. After that I scaled down a bit to a Hughey 21. The old foam roundnose with a Taipan 21.

It was a trip, travelling through some of the funkiest parts of Detroit to get to Belle Isle!

KW

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Same here. I grew up in Detroit and used to go to Belle Isle and run. I can remember everyone asking "did you lock the car??" Were you there when Bridge or Walker lost the radio and sent one of those monster twins through a windshield? LOL The water always a little rough at race day.

 

[Don Templeton]

"Origin of the outrigger?" Just take a look at my avatar. That is Donald Campbells fatal last run at over 300 mph in his Bluebird jet powered outrigger in 1967.

After reading all the above replies it has brought back many memories for me and I just would like to share my first experience with RC boating with you.

After reading some adds in a RC boat magazine in 1976 I decided to order an Octura Wing Ding 60 kit because it looked pretty cool. In the same magazine there was a K&B engine add that had a picture of a guy named John Ackerman who had just become the first to break 80mph in a one way pass. Anyway, I finished the Wing Ding that winter with an OS 65 engine and straight pipe and ran a 3/16" shaft down through a 1/2" tube with no support and put a thrust bearing against the strut. Actually, it ran so fast and so good, in my eyes, that I couldn't believe anything could be faster.

I found out that there was a group of guys in town that ran RC boats at a local pond on the weekends. So on Saturday I trot down with my super fast boat and super fast latest and best engine, according to the hobby shop owner, to give these guys a go. And who do I run into? The likes of John Ackerman, Marty Davis, Ed Hughey, Stu Bar, etc, etc, etc, with a full compliment of Crapshooters and Hughey boats. My boat did run just OK out in lane 20 to keep away from those missles they had. The Indy Unlimited was comming up the next weekend and they talked me into racing in it. A guy named Bob Finley gave me a pipe and without looking under my boat to see the unsuported shaft told me to take off the thrust bearing and put the load on the U-joint at the engine.

Next weekend, my first heat ever at one of the biggest events in the country.

We launch the boat, I shove the throttle forward all the way, the carb breaks off the engine and the side of the boat splits wide open.

Best thing about that day is my wife feels so sorry for me that she gives the OK for Marty to build me an exact duplicate of Ackerman's sprint boat complete with an Ackerman 67 OPS. :lol:

Sorry if I bored you but it might be fun to hear other peoples first experiences in this great hobby.

Don

 

[Norm Doerr]

"Origin of the outrigger?" Just take a look at my avatar. That is Donald Campbells fatal last run at over 300 mph in his Bluebird jet powered outrigger in 1967.
After reading all the above replies it has brought back many memories for me and I just would like to share my first experience with RC boating with you.

After reading some adds in a  RC boat magazine in 1976 I decided to order an Octura Wing Ding 60 kit because it looked pretty cool. In the same magazine there was a K&B engine add that had a picture of a guy named John Ackerman who had just become the first to break 80mph in a one way pass. Anyway, I finished the Wing Ding that winter with an OS 65 engine and straight pipe and ran a  3/16" shaft down through a 1/2" tube with no support and put a thrust bearing against the strut. Actually, it ran so fast and so good, in my eyes, that I couldn't believe anything could be faster.

I found out that there was a group of guys in town that ran RC boats at a local pond on the weekends. So on Saturday I trot down with my super fast boat and super fast latest and best engine, according to the hobby shop owner, to give these guys a go. And who do I run into? The likes of John Ackerman, Marty Davis, Ed Hughey, Stu Bar, etc, etc, etc, with a full compliment of Crapshooters and Hughey boats. My boat did run just OK out in lane 20 to keep away from those missles they had. The Indy Unlimited was comming up the next weekend and they talked me into racing in it. A guy named Bob Finley gave me a pipe and without looking under my boat to see the unsuported shaft told me to take off the thrust bearing and put the load on the U-joint at the engine.

Next weekend, my first heat ever at one of the biggest events in the country.

We launch the boat, I shove the throttle forward all the way, the carb breaks off the engine and the side of the boat splits wide open.

Best thing about that day is my wife feels so sorry for me that she gives the OK for Marty to build me an exact duplicate of Ackerman's sprint boat complete with an Ackerman 67 OPS.  :lol:

Sorry if I bored you but it might be fun to hear other peoples first experiences in this great hobby.

Don 

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That is a classic story. I worked in Detroit and went to all the big hydro races and a guy at a hobby shop in the suburbs got me into this thing. I ran a Dumas Deep V 40 that Tom Daniels helped me with . Well I wanted to go faster so I bought a Crapshooter from Precision Boat Manufacturing and With a Kaboom 45 I was the fasted dude on the local lake. Daniels never told me different. So my first race was the Internats in Flint. They warned me about the Indy Guys. LOL. Howie Whitaker, Ackerman, Marty, I think Grannis and etc were all there. They smoked me so bad I threw my boat in the car and just watched all weekend. LOL.

Where did the outrigger come from only God knows BUT. There sure were a lot of fast ones. The problem today is there is no one besides Andy who are making them in a high production status. I realize most everybody has a real job but in regards to copies. Some guys love building boats and if you are going to build one why not make it the same as the fast guys.

My take is, if you cannot buy one there is nothing wrong with building a similar boat. BUT if you are doing it to sell and make a profit then....well, that is not a good move.

 

[Pennywizz6]

I think that its good to try something totally out of the box, create an entire new design, things dont evolve if you take the same ideas and redo them over and over. When you make something similar where you base demensions off of another modeler it is very nice if you can give at least partial credit towards your ideas.

Phil :angry: <_<

 

[Brad Christy]

Guys,

OK, Like Geraghty said in his first post here, I am getting into this kinda late, but I thought I might speak on behalf of those who take the initiative to build rather than buy.

Yes, it is true that my BlackJack21 is a scaled down Crapshooter45, just like the Warlok. Jon did it first, and as I understand it, with Stu's approval. Jon and I talked about me getting one, but before I commited to anything, I had decided that I would rather build my owe, primarily to save money. I had just sold my Eagle SG21, specifically with the intention of buying/building a new boat, so I thought I'd have a go at it. I liked what I saw in the Warlok, as far as performance, so I decided to go the same route: Use a proven design as a starting point and go from there. Here is where my path parted from Jon's....

After a phone call and a long discussion with him, I decided to EXACTLY duplicate what Stu was doing with his boat, only smaller, right down to the last piece of hardware. I had been in the hobby a few years and saw the way other kits were built (my first kit was a Hawk45 and, like I said, I also ran an Eagle). I felt the Crapshooter was the best design I had seen. Why would I do anything less? Keep in mind that at the time, I had no intention of selling anything to anyone, except maybe when it was time to build a new one. I then measured out my 45 boat, drew it up on AutoCad, scaled it down and started building. I also bought a Cowl and sevo mount set from Stu. About three months later and several phone conversations later (with Stu), I had a beautiful, brand new 21 hydro, yet untitled. I ran it almost all year with out even considering a name for it, but I knew it was not going to have "Crapshooter" anywhere on it, as much as I would have liked it to have, because Stu didn't build it.

At several race events I attended, I was asked several times if I would be willing to build one for someone. At first, I was reluctant, knowing how much work was involved in building a complete kit. But when I had four or five "sold", I decided to get back with those who had asked me for one. Again, I discussed the propsition with Stu and he told me to go for it (we had talked about it before, late in the season, but it was only in passing conversation). By Christmas, I had six commited buyers. I hadn't made that first cut and was two months behind schedule, but in business..........

So much for the history of the BlackJack.......... Fast forward to today.....

As I have previously stated, the BlackJack is nothing more than a scaled down Crapshooter45. Do I feel I have done Stu an injustice? Hell, no. I have always given Stu credit for the design of the BlackJack, at least face to face or through E-Mail. Publically, I am not going to try and use the origin of the design as a selling point, in respect of Stu's request. But, in no way am I trying to hide the facts, or "copy" anybody. The day Stu decides to start building 20 boats (doubtful this day will ever come) will be the last year I build BlackJacks. He is so far supportive of my efforts, and is so far willing to provide me with the E-glass parts I need, and I am grateful for this.

I'll step down now.............

It was once said that imitation is the ultimate form of flattery.

Thanks. Brad.

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