Dsm vs 75

[David Santistevan]

David,
If you know can you tell me was this rule implemented for safety or for the ease of constructing heats at a contest?
Or perhaps for insurance purposes? If this was for safety then it really missed the mark by allowing non sanctioned events to run the same frequency’s that are being banned for sanctioned events! MAKES NO SENSE AT ALL!

Don,
The truth is I don't know for sure. I am not on the board and did not participate in the discussions with the BOD. I have my suspicions, the NAMBA BOD passed the rule for ALL of the reasons above. I can definitely see how it make a race easier to generate and manage heats and I can see safety. I guess that is kind of the point here, there are A LOT of reasons as to why it would make sense to would pass this.

Stay ornery my friend, good seeing you in CA!

 

[Tom Foley]

So to the op and others that have questions, why have you not asked the board or the clubs why instead of asking on a forum? Tom you mentioned being frustrated by the different opinions stated in this thread, but opinions are all you are going to get here. Nobody here was involved in the decision. If you have made these contacts, what were you told?
This has been entertaining, but enough already it's not productive for anyone. Sorry moving on.

Why ask it on a forum that hundreds partake in you ask ? I'll let you answer that to yourself . I'm moving on as well but I think it's clear that eliminating 75 mghz has nothing to do with safety.

 

[LohringMiller]

Are you advocating that we return to the good old days of 27MHz? Think about the evolution from that until today and still tell me the change to a much more secure system isn't about safety.

Lohring Miller
PS I'm sorry that it also means you can avoid racing against selected people who run the same 75 MHz frequency.

 

[DON MAHER]

Don,
The truth is I don't know for sure. I am not on the board and did not participate in the discussions with the BOD. I have my suspicions, the NAMBA BOD passed the rule for ALL of the reasons above. I can definitely see how it make a race easier to generate and manage heats and I can see safety. I guess that is kind of the point here, there are A LOT of reasons as to why it would make sense to would pass this.

Stay ornery my friend, good seeing you in CA!

David,
It was a lot of fun at the nats in Seaside, and great to see you too! After reviewing the rule, the only logical conclusion I can come up with is that it is not for safety or insurance purposes, so what is left, ease of formatting the heats and or eliminating racers from entering on the same frequency to avoid racing each other!

 

[Tom Foley]

Are you advocating that we return to the good old days of 27MHz? Think about the evolution from that until today and still tell me the change to a much more secure system isn't about safety.

Lohring Miller
PS I'm sorry that it also means you can avoid racing against selected people who run the same 75 MHz frequency.

Due to the fact that hardly anyone runs 75 it is actually statistically safer than it ever was . My god how did we ever survive racing for 40 years on such a tragedy ridden system lol ......
At the airplane field there is hardly , actually none , any competition for frequencies any more . I love it .

 

[DON MAHER]

Are you advocating that we return to the good old days of 27MHz? Think about the evolution from that until today and still tell me the change to a much more secure system isn't about safety.

Lohring Miller
PS I'm sorry that it also means you can avoid racing against selected people who run the same 75 MHz frequency.

Lohring,
If this is about safety, why the he#@ would you allow non sanctioned events to run on the same frequencys??

 

[Tom Foley]

David,
It was a lot of fun at the nats in Seaside, and great to see you too! After reviewing the rule, the only logical conclusion I can come up with is that it is not for safety or insurance purposes, so what is left, ease of formatting the heats and or eliminating racers from entering on the same frequency to avoid racing each other!

I believe the use of it was to be able to pit for each other which is very helpful . I know several who had done it for that reason and I can see that .

 

[JamesShields]

So it really comes down to "these old farts need to get with the times they are causing us too much inconvenience"?
What happened to respect your elders and respect that many of them made and continued the hobby you enjoy today. Let's try to keep it enjoyable for everyone. Learn from those who are able to maintain equipment to keep it operating as new. Everything is not disposable due just to age.

 

[Jeff Barnes]

I wouldn't throw it away I would put it up on the mantel or shelf so you could look at it every day for all the years of enjoyment it gave you and get 1Dsm radio you won't regret it

 

[Mark Anderson]

It just blows me away that so many are willing to argue, point fingers and make accusations about something that they know nothing about, but no one is willing to contact the people that are able to answer the question. Which I believe was, why eliminate frequencies other than dsm from NAMBA competition. And who made the decision .

 

[Tom Foley]

It just blows me away that so many are willing to argue, point fingers and make accusations about something that they know nothing about, but no one is willing to contact the people that are able to answer the question. Which I believe was, why eliminate frequencies other than dsm from NAMBA competition. And who made the decision .

The guys that initiated it have seen this thread and others . The die is cast , we must conform but NOT TILL NEXT YEAR is the point . Furthermore how do you know who has talked to whom ? Thank You .

 

[VenomCC]

I bought my 3PK shortly after they hit the market. I have NEVER had a glitch since using it. I've lost radio couple of times from switch failure (and no, a failsafe would not have helped) but not from radio reception. I had to go to my backup 3PK when the screen went black after over 120 hours of use. I agree with Rod, If it ain't broke then don't fix it.

 

[Al Waters]

I don't come out here and post that often. Trying to avoid the politics can be very difficult. I do read everything as the IW is my morning newspaper. There are some strong feelings out here as this thread has reached it's fifth page. I will do a recount for you of the history on how this all came about and you can conclude whatever you like. Please do not ask me questions as I am not on the NAMBA BOD and I can not vote nor be involved in BOD discussions. I just keep the records.

In February 2022 a proposal was brought before the NAMBA BOD which you are aware of that has passed. The BOD has the right to pass non racing rules for the membership or they can vote and defer those to the membership. By majority vote they decided to accept the voting responsibility.

A NAMBA proposal customarily begins with the "Reason" they want the proposal to pass to try and give it credibility. This proposal did not. It began with the "Backgound" and here it is.

Background:
With the advancement in radios over the past few years and more specifically the development of the DSM
Frequencies, the need for the older surface frequencies has all but disappeared. While there are a few
individuals still running these frequencies, the overwhelming majority has switched to DSM. The purpose of
this proposal is to encourage the retirement of these frequencies to eliminate the need for transmitter
impounds and frequency coordination in composing heats.
The intent of this rule is to limit the frequencies offered at NAMBA sanctioned events to just the DSM band
after 2023. The older 27Mhz, 50Mhz and 75Mhz frequencies will still be available for sport boating or for nonsanctioned
NAMBA races.

There is also an article in the NAMBA Propwash from April 2022 page 4 from Futaba USA Tech Support if you would like further reading.

Thank you for your time.
Al Waters
NAMBA Secretary

 

[JamesShields]

I know what it is David , however it will prevent several of our guys from racing in Brandon because it is being implemented NOW instead of after the years end .

"I spoke with Ron Drake and he said that if it a hardship for anyone, contact him and they will look at exceptions case by case"

This is from another thread "Radio discussion" about a local race. They know who enters the race under 75 MHZ. They should reach out and not act like they are the king of racing and permission needs to be asked. The NAMBA directive takes affect at the end of this year. A race in March locally listed "DSM only". The district director should have straightened this out and told the race to stick to the new rule as it is and not make your own! Let me say again that I run all DSM this is about forcing people to change for others convenience. I took about 4 years hiatus from the hobby and came back 7 months ago to turmoil in our district.

 

[Tom Foley]

I don't come out here and post that often. Trying to avoid the politics can be very difficult. I do read everything as the IW is my morning newspaper. There are some strong feelings out here as this thread has reached it's fifth page. I will do a recount for you of the history on how this all came about and you can conclude whatever you like. Please do not ask me questions as I am not on the NAMBA BOD and I can not vote nor be involved in BOD discussions. I just keep the records.

In February 2022 a proposal was brought before the NAMBA BOD which you are aware of that has passed. The BOD has the right to pass non racing rules for the membership or they can vote and defer those to the membership. By majority vote they decided to accept the voting responsibility.

A NAMBA proposal customarily begins with the "Reason" they want the proposal to pass to try and give it credibility. This proposal did not. It began with the "Backgound" and here it is.

Background:
With the advancement in radios over the past few years and more specifically the development of the DSM
Frequencies, the need for the older surface frequencies has all but disappeared. While there are a few
individuals still running these frequencies, the overwhelming majority has switched to DSM. The purpose of
this proposal is to encourage the retirement of these frequencies to eliminate the need for transmitter
impounds and frequency coordination in composing heats.
The intent of this rule is to limit the frequencies offered at NAMBA sanctioned events to just the DSM band
after 2023. The older 27Mhz, 50Mhz and 75Mhz frequencies will still be available for sport boating or for nonsanctioned
NAMBA races.

There is also an article in the NAMBA Propwash from April 2022 page 4 from Futaba USA Tech Support if you would like further reading.

Thank you for your time.
Al Waters
NAMBA Secretary

Thank you Al . I wish they would just let it run it's course till the end of 2023 in D 3 as designed .

 

[DON MAHER]

Mark,
As you have stated there are 2 questions to answered. The who has already been answered “ The Board of Directors “ !
The why is what has not been answered clearly. Lohring Miller the Safety Director, has said it is for safety, but that’s BS when non sanctioned running is allowed to use the 27&75 bands!

 

[JamesShields]

"I spoke with Ron Drake and he said that if it a hardship for anyone, contact him and they will look at exceptions case by case"

This is from another thread "Radio discussion" about a local race. They know who enters the race under 75 MHZ. They should reach out and not act like they are the king of racing and permission needs to be asked. The NAMBA directive takes affect at the end of this year. A race in March locally listed "DSM only". The district director should have straightened this out and told the race to stick to the new rule as it is and not make your own! Let me say again that I run all DSM this is about forcing people to change for others convenience. I took about 4 years hiatus from the hobby and came back 7 months ago to turmoil in our district.

 

[JamesShields]

75 MHZ

 

[Hydro Junkie]

Okay guys, I've tried to stay out of this thread, but I feel like it's time to try to sort this one out. Let's start with Al Water's post:
With the advancement in radios over the past few years and more specifically the development of the DSM
Frequencies, the need for the older surface frequencies has all but disappeared. While there are a few
individuals still running these frequencies, the overwhelming majority has switched to DSM. The purpose of
this proposal is to encourage the retirement of these frequencies to eliminate the need for transmitter
impounds and frequency coordination in composing heats.
The intent of this rule is to limit the frequencies offered at NAMBA sanctioned events to just the DSM band
after 2023. The older 27Mhz, 50Mhz and 75Mhz frequencies will still be available for sport boating or for nonsanctioned NAMBA races.
I see a couple of things that are very important for us, as boaters, in his post:

1. advancement in radios over the past few years and the development of the DSM Frequencies
2. the overwhelming majority has switched to DSM
3. eliminate the need for transmitter impounds and frequency coordination in composing heats.

With these three things extracted from Al's post, let's look at the "why" behind them:

• Since the DSM became a reliable system, they have been more and more what has been available to the modeling community, pretty much phasing out the older types of protocols and frequencies in much the same way the automatic transmission has replaced the manual in almost all vehicles, other than the heavy-duty ones. Even some semi tractors are equipped with them to make the driver's work load easier.
• Why has the "overwhelming majority" bought DSM systems? They aren't any cheaper than a 27, 50 or 75MHz system so it's not the cost. I bought my 4PLS since I didn't see a wheel radio on any other band than 2.4GHz being offered by Futaba. It also had features that aren't on my 9CAP, such as servo speed controls. Does that give an indication as to where the market is pushing us?
• transmitter impounds and frequency coordination are just a benefit to those running a race. By not having to worry about them, it streamlines operations. If two people still want to pit for each other, they can still say they are on the same non-DSM frequency and run as they always have.

One thing Al didn't have in his post is SAFETY. Safety is an issue that, for the most part, DSMs have improved. We no longer have to have a frequency pin to turn on our radios since the receivers only respond to the "linked" transmitter. This eliminates the chance of a runaway due to someone else overriding the boat owner's transmitter signal. Obviously, a radio part failure will still cause a boat to go out of control but, all things being equal, it was the same way with the older, non-DSM systems.

 

[acaptn]

encourage the retirement of these frequencies to eliminate the need for transmitter
impounds and frequency coordination in composing heats.

Radio impounds have not been happening for years in district 3.

So, the way to deal with freq conflicts you just eliminate FCC approved 75mhz radios.

How is this supporting our hobby, just because we are a few its ok?

So how many people that sign up on 75mhz really run DSM?

There should be a discussion on why people sign up on the same freq.

I am proud to run my old 3pk and hope you don't encourage the retirement for my standard transmission.