DSM and races.. is it time?

[Mark Bullard]

This system is not broke. Only some people think it is. My partner and I have always run the classes we share on the same freq. when we ran channel numbers. I maybe the one that started the using the channels numbers when we went to DSM. My partner and I said how are we going to pit for each other. I said use the same freq. numbers we have always used. This is the way to control the race software for entry. Not a big deal. Now some of you say that we do not want to run each other. this is not true. We do not want to burden our fellow racers or be a problem for the CD's and club putting on the race. But if anyone has seen us at a race there were no wait for us and most of the time we were the first boat in the water. We have had times when there were not enough boat to make two heats and we were very happy to combine for their race. When we ran freq. we when to our Alt. We have had races that that needed to be combined because some boats dropped out. There again we were very happy to do what was needed. The only thing that DSM has done for us is to make it easy to chance Freq. to combine heats. We do not have to open radio boxes to chance freq. This is nice.
You have to work with the racers to put on a good race. Our club has put on a couple of the best races of all times. To host an Internats takes a lot of work and we can not do it without working with the racers. We work for them so they will work for us. This is the key to putting on a good race.
Now one day the Mhz transmitter radio maybe a thing of the past. And there is a lot of good working radios out there so I do not see it happening in my lifetime. But until then we will continue to do the same thing.

 

[Mike Hughes]

Don, Sorry have to interject for those that seem to think that people should not be drawing others. For one who has spent quite a bit of time looking at the heat draws over the last 15 years or so, because all the computer systems suck at it. Computer random draw is horrible most times. 30 boat class with 6 boat heats, you going to draw people 2 to 3 times. There is just no way to have someone not draw another. I know there is a math way to explain this, but that seems to eluded me at this point. It gets even worse with freq conflicts. Looks at it this way. Driver A races with 5 drivers with his first heat. Now for the second round driver A will need 5 more new drivers. SInce there is only 4 other heats to draw from for these drivers that you have never race against. You will be short 1 driver. Since you also have to try and not double up for all the rest of the drivers as well. Meaning that no matter what one driver of every heat is drawing a guy twice and we only have made it to the second round. Hope this makes sense. The more conflicts the more you draw others as well.
Mike

 

[Rudy Formanek]

Mark, making the system work for teams degrades it for the many, many times there are no teams entered. Take a minute and look through all the races on racemastersevents.com only 1% are entered on Mhz freq and none on the same freq in the same class. So making it so people can race as a team and not race each other gives us a system where people dont race the person on their line in the matrix. Many of us feel it is fairer if we can race everybody in the class at least once and we want to race everyone at least once. Come up with a way for teams to not race each other and still allow the classes that have no teams AND want to race everybody entered. I cant think of one, maybe you're smarter than me

 

[acaptn]

We continue to find ways of chasing off racers. Part of my program is being on the same page as your pit person. 80 mph things happen quickly, having practiced your system of lane calling dead boat location without having to think about it on race day is huge. Pit person has knowledge of your boat from starting it to putting on the hatch launching it ect. So I guess that makes me a team racer. We have no problem changing freq to combine when asked. We also run the shootout format. Never really thought about until now but, I support team racing. Bring your A game and it should not matter hard to beat a perfect score!!

 

[Norm Doerr]

 

[Hydro Junkie]

We could always bring out a Bingo machine and use it to make the draws. Each boat is assigned a number and, as each number comes up, it's assigned to the next open slot on the draw sheet. Takes out all questions of randomness and, if a boat withdraws, that number is pulled out of the machine for the rest of the day. It would also effectively remove the team driving and frequency aspects out of the equasion.

 

[timothy johnson]

Wow this thing just keeps going on !! There's a reason why Stu, Brian, Mark, Doc, Brad, Chad,Stan, Jerry, Tom and the many other names I failed to mention win a lot of the nitro races and its not the heat race sheets. They all bring their A game and I truly enjoy racing with all of them. There's no real thing that gives one of these racers an advantage other than a well setup boat and their driving skill. I don't care who I race with I just want to be there and enjoy the fun . Please all you great club guys that are putting on these race's don't listen to some of this stuff . My next race will be Tampa, hope to see you all there.

 

[Tom Foley]

I'm going to need some pit help In Brandon Tim , gonna be moving slow with the new left knee !! I'm only going to run 2 boats though !! Can't wait to see you and Penny .

 

[Tim Smith]

I say that the frequency does not matter at all, If you are still on the older system then you will need to have multiple channels to change to. The organizers then can setup the heats with out any frequency conflict at all. This way you can run 2.4 or any old system you would like and nobody is made to change.

 

[Rudy Formanek]

We could always bring out a Bingo machine and use it to make the draws. Each boat is assigned a number and, as each number comes up, it's assigned to the next open slot on the draw sheet. Takes out all questions of randomness and, if a boat withdraws, that number is pulled out of the machine for the rest of the day. It would also effectively remove the team driving and frequency aspects out of the equasion.

How would you feel, if you used your bingo system and you raced your buddy 4 times and many other racers in the class 0 times. In a class with 10 boats entered and two heats and 4 rounds, in the current system, you will race some people 3 times, some people 2 times and 1 person 0 times. I think we can do better, especially for everyday plain vanilla district season points racing. Didn't see anybody on racemasters buddying up on 75 Mhz.The Pruesses were on there on 75 in different classes and on different freq. Granted, now adays, there are few classes with more than 1 heat.

 

[timothy johnson]

I'm going to need some pit help In Brandon Tim , gonna be moving slow with the new left knee !! I'm only going to run 2 boats though !! Can't wait to see you and Penny .

No problem Tom, see you there!

 

[Hydro Junkie]

How would you feel, if you used your bingo system and you raced your buddy 4 times and many other racers in the class 0 times. In a class with 10 boats entered and two heats and 4 rounds, in the current system, you will race some people 3 times, some people 2 times and 1 person 0 times. I think we can do better, especially for everyday plain vanilla district season points racing. Didn't see anybody on racemasters buddying up on 75 Mhz.The Pruesses were on there on 75 in different classes and on different freq. Granted, now adays, there are few classes with more than 1 heat.

Have you ever been to a bingo hall? They use ping pong balls with the numbers on them, pushed up a tube by air from a big box. Since the balls are always moving, due to said blowing air, there's no way for the draws to be manipulated. You can't get any more random than that. Would there be a chance of racing someone more than once? Yes there would, but no more so than using the computer drawing programs we use now. Then again, you can do the same thing with the squirrel cage bingo system. Put the required number of balls into the cage, spin it to shuffle, dump the first ball back into the cage and start your draw.

 

[Duke Mordja]

This has been an interesting thread to read this evening.

DSM all the way for racing. Crystals as well. If you have them use them. Not even a topic to discuss in my opinion.

Maybe registration sites need to add an option for team racing for fellas that like to travel to play with our toys.

Teamwork is what makes this hobby fun for many of us. Watching buddies working together is an awesome part of this hobby.

I make a request for software be updated to ADD an entry option so teammates can travel and enjoy this hobby.

Shootout format is fine. At least heat one, everyone is bringing their A game. After that, team racing doesn't matter anyways.

After spending a week at the internats this year and not having any of my normal pit guys, I can say that I really need my teammates. Simple when you can have teammates working together. Bad launch, not much fun. In my case, I had no teammates that traveled to Huntsville with me. Gained some new pit guys on the trip, and that in itself made the trip worth it.
Thanks Mark A.

Most important part of this hobby is running boats with friends.

So, it is my opinion to ADD a selection in the registration software to have team selection.

Run what you have DSM, crystals.

Please add team selection to registration. Limit two boats per team per class. Only works if race has two or more heats of same class.(obvious)

This can add a new dimension to the hobby that may grow the hobby for families running the same classes at larger races. There was like 10 Carltons (only 7) racing at Riptide last weekend. 6 year olds racing is an important part of this hobby we need to consider. Team Carlton is set to grow this hobby.

Probably no need to change the software. Teammates can just pick a frequency.

 

[Grimracer]

After all the debate teams dont seem to be the issue..(in hind site, ..it never was).
The issue is the capability of choosing who you race against.

Also from this thread we have learned that the folks setting up heats have concerns with the current signup system. 2.4 in this case (model boating) has not fully solved this issue. (it however can)

We can choose to do nothing and allow TIME to fix this but is that best for the HOBBY in the long run (maybe it is).. Some speak of this conversation as having a negative on the hobby some say ignoring it is just as detrimental.

Forward we go

Grim

 

[dr gary turner]

The issue is not team racing. I am not team racing. It is having a reliable pit man launcher and caller.

To find a FILL IN imposes on other busy racers, slows the race waiting for the fill in who forgot he was a fill in.

How many fill ins are needed if you run 4 boats. Same fill in may not be able to help every heat for a given boat/class.

If the club is concerned should they provide fill in launchers pit men and launchers

Those that are concerned are they going to volunteer their time to pit launch and call, even though they need to work on their boat for the next heat to get it ready.

It’s easy to raise an issue to raise an issue but the solution is many times not achieved because there is REALLY NO ISSUE.

Real issues most of the time have obvious and non controversial SOLUTIONS.

LETS RACE. Once the boats are in the water it’s A RACE NO MATTER WHO IS IN THE HEAT.

 

[Tom Foley]

" You're OVER " !!!!!!

 

[Mark Grannis]

I started reading this from the beginning a second time. Wow, what a whiny bunch we all can be...including me. Yes, I want my son behind me.

Danny, you are correct 2&3 boat heats waste time. I have gone to the Brandon CD's expressing our willingness to change frenqs to combine heats when the scratches become plentiful. We only have an issue in 67 hydro.

The solution has always been there. Just state on your race flyer any intentions deviating from the rules, so entrants are not surprised after traveling long distances.

With impound a thing of the past, maybe just a FRENQ white board so clips are no longer needed. Write your last name and frenq then erase after your race. Maybe one - five names all weekend.

Happy Boat Racin' !!!

 

[MarkF]

I think were teams seem unfair is the fact that everyone wants a good pit guy, What about the rest of the racers who don't have a buddy to pit for them. They see teams as having the good pit persons without having to walk the pits and find a guy. We all hate not having a pit guy we like but that's racing. So it sucks to walk the pits knowing all the good pit guys are taking by teams. I know that's an exaggeration but team guys need to consider that everyone is in the same boat, and it's a luxury if you get to use the same guy you know when no one else gets too.

 

[Grimracer]

Wow.. mark brings up a good point I had not thought about..

What about the new guy.. the guy thats looking for help at his first few races. How does this playout in his mind? And then...How many people here HAVE taken a new guy and had them chuck a boat for you ON PURPOSE to get them over that hump.. I have.. who else?

Do we say.. screw him, he will have to figure it out on his own. When he sees the registration site and how it IS' possible to chose who you race against how does that play out in his mind. Maybe he does not understand the team aspect you all speak of.

Just not sure how a new person might see this.. (been a VERY long time sense I was new at this..LOL.. my mind is a skew)

Just random thoughts.. no answers..

I have however seen quite a few on here come up with IDEAS to help (again thats assuming its broken which is up for debate).. so.. I am calling this post a success even tho I am labeled a knuckle head. LOL

I also feel the reason we have such a large view count on this thread is BECAUSE it does matter. Regardless of if we agree or not.. we have a passion for this topic for sure.

Grim out!

 

[MarkF]

I think it's every racers responsibility to help pit. How else is a guy to learn if the good pit people don't want to help. The best racers are also the best pit persons. I use to travel to races and my biggest fear was finding a good pit guy. Not because they don't exist, it's that some of them just felt that working on there boat was more important than helping a guy from out of town who knows nobody. I never let that stop me from racing, but I wonder how many it did.