Don F, Debate Here.

[Kris Flynn]

Hey Joerg Specktrem radios are 2.4gHz radios which basically select an available frequency or channel and there are no clashes of frequencies...

thats my basic understanding

Thsi is taken from http://www.spektrumrc.com/DSM/FAQ.aspx

What is DSM?DSM or Digital Spektrum Modulation is Spektrum's proprietary method of implementing 2.4GHz spread spectrum technology for the R/C industry. DSM divides the 2.4Ghz band into 80 individual channels (frequencies) and incorporates direct sequence spread spectrum with an imbedded GUID (Globally Unique Identifier) code. DSM has been painstakingly optimized by our engineers for R/C surface and aircraft use, offering the most robust RF link in the industry.

 

[Darin Jordan]

Darin that's the best you can do? I thought for sure that when I came back you would have a huge list of fires caused by rc fuel.Especially since you keep pointing to it as being a major concern that namba does not do anything about. Just razzing ya bud!

Steven

Yah... unfortunately it is! I'm not sure the Bureau of Statistics keeps records on Namba nitro fires... :blink:

 

[gooycheese]

Merry Christmas & Happy New Year !!!!!

 

[Pagemaster]

Darin that's the best you can do? I thought for sure that when I came back you would have a huge list of fires caused by rc fuel.Especially since you keep pointing to it as being a major concern that namba does not do anything about. Just razzing ya bud!

Steven

Yah... unfortunately it is! I'm not sure the Bureau of Statistics keeps records on Namba nitro fires... :blink:

So there is little evidence of nitro fuel caused fires. Glad we agree on that. I can tell you in the last two years there have been at least 1/2 dozen lipo fires that I was made aware of.

Again I'm not saying not to run lipo. I will be in the very near future. I'm just asking you to please stop comparing

it to nitro as an equal danger. It clearly isnt.

Steven

 

[Andy Greene]

Darin that's the best you can do? I thought for sure that when I came back you would have a huge list of fires caused by rc fuel.Especially since you keep pointing to it as being a major concern that namba does not do anything about. Just razzing ya bud!

Steven

Yah... unfortunately it is! I'm not sure the Bureau of Statistics keeps records on Namba nitro fires... :blink:

So there is little evidence of nitro fuel caused fires. Glad we agree on that. I can tell you in the last two years there have been at least 1/2 dozen lipo fires that I was made aware of.

Again I'm not saying not to run lipo. I will be in the very near future. I'm just asking you to please stop comparing

it to nitro as an equal danger. It clearly isnt.

Steven

Okay so we all agree there are inherant risks in everything we do everyday of our lives. Our sport(hobbie) has some specific inherant risks we are all hopefully aware of. That said I am not pro-or con lipo YET- but there are other issues at hand with lipo's vs nimh cells that need to pounded out. Why cant we stop all the bashing and stick to the issues at hand.

 

[Andy Greene]

Darin that's the best you can do? I thought for sure that when I came back you would have a huge list of fires caused by rc fuel.Especially since you keep pointing to it as being a major concern that namba does not do anything about. Just razzing ya bud!

Steven

Yah... unfortunately it is! I'm not sure the Bureau of Statistics keeps records on Namba nitro fires... :blink:

So there is little evidence of nitro fuel caused fires. Glad we agree on that. I can tell you in the last two years there have been at least 1/2 dozen lipo fires that I was made aware of.

Again I'm not saying not to run lipo. I will be in the very near future. I'm just asking you to please stop comparing

it to nitro as an equal danger. It clearly isnt.

Steven

Okay so we all agree there are inherant risks in everything we do everyday of our lives. Our sport(hobbie) has some specific inherant risks we are all hopefully aware of. That said I am not pro-or con lipo YET- but there are other issues at hand with lipo's vs nimh cells that need to pounded out. Why cant we stop all the bashing and stick to the issues at hand. As a Namba member who will be asked to vote on the issue in the near future I havnt been convinced of several things other than no-one can stick to the issues at hand without tossing bombs back and forth, aint gonna sway my vote that way guys.

 

[JfromJAGs]

Hey Joerg Specktrem radios are 2.4gHz radios which basically select an available frequency or channel and there are no clashes of frequencies...
thats my basic understanding

Thsi is taken from http://www.spektrumrc.com/DSM/FAQ.aspx

What is DSM?DSM or Digital Spektrum Modulation is Spektrum's proprietary method of implementing 2.4GHz spread spectrum technology for the R/C industry. DSM divides the 2.4Ghz band into 80 individual channels (frequencies) and incorporates direct sequence spread spectrum with an imbedded GUID (Globally Unique Identifier) code. DSM has been painstakingly optimized by our engineers for R/C surface and aircraft use, offering the most robust RF link in the industry.

I thought he ment that, just was'nt sure.

Do you have experience in using it in boats? I did'nt buy one so far, because first I'm still very fine with my 40/75MHz Futaba/Schulze combo, second, quite some guys I saw it using had big troubles and range problems. So far it seams as water on the receiver antenna is a big problem. It if would work, it's a very nice technology though.

To me it's just another example that not everything written by the manufacturer is worth the electrons it uses to get displayed on the screen.

Joerg

 

[JfromJAGs]

NO! Joerg, something got lost in translation. I don't mean that at all.
... If I decide now to use LiPo instead of a NiMh because it's the best I can find. How is that any different?

I'm not sure if something got lost. I ment that seriously, but not to ban me and other crazy guys. I ment you should think about making rule that such things are not needed for everyweekend racing.

Allowing LiPo's is fine with me, I just don't like, that for doing so, the rules were changed to allow more than double power in each class. That's what I have a problem with, not LiPo's in general.

I would turn mad in the same way, if you'd allow double power for NiMHs alone from one year to another - this will kill FE, not LiPo's or any other new technology. We were already on the edge, now double that, and you are just out of bounce. I tried to explain this now several times. You don't believe me, well, you need to do it and see it. My, Arne and Gunnars (JAG's) expertise stands again it, but what do we know?

Anyway, Merry Christmas. I will be pretty much offline for the next few days.

Joerg

 

[Darin Jordan]

I'm just asking you to please stop comparingit to nitro as an equal danger. It clearly isnt.

Steven

Hey Steve... Now that you just provoked me into looking deeper... and I have... I just thought I'd let you know... that EVERY MAJOR or MINOR racing (real cars, etc...) organization requires pit crews/participants to wear a fire suit when fueling their vehicles... I'm sure that's because of the low danger... :unsure:

Oh, and I'm sure that the racers are all aware of the MSDS for nitromethane - http://www.camd.lsu.edu/msds/n/nitromethane.htm

While you guys are worrying about those Lipo fire statistics... you need to ask for all the facts... HOW many of those failures just happed to a well cared for, non-damaged pack? When you hear the underlying story of the conditions under which they failed, I think you'll find some interesting info... Like the one about the guy who burned his car to the ground after severely crashing his plane, then trying to charge the damaged pack under the hood of his car...

You CAN'T legislate COMMON SENSE!

My point is that there ARE dangers with all this stuff... and FE is leading the way by putting safety requirements in the proposed Power Requirements proposals that hopefully are arriving soon...

 

[sjslhill]

Darin,

Give it up...your wrong on this one. I'd like to have a $1 for every NIMH or NICAD pack that has been hooked up backwards, over charged, dropped, wrecked, left in the hot sun, vented from over abuse. If you think that somehow your going to leap above human error or face the plain fact that your racing, your incorrect.

When your at a large race and you have 3 or 4 back to back classes with LiPoly, you better have someone just doing battery maintance and keeping track of where everything is.

The stuff is dangerous and the list proves the danger and these accidents are not even racing accidents.

You won't see any of my kids in the pits at a large race using all those LiPoly packs. You can call me paranoid, stupid, over reactive or anything you want.

NAMBA and the IMPBA better enforce the hot pit area, it could more dangerous than the real unlimited pits.

regards,

Steve

 

[Andy Greene]

NO! Joerg, something got lost in translation. I don't mean that at all.
...

Allowing LiPo's is fine with me, I just don't like, that for doing so, the rules were changed to allow more than double power in each class. That's what I have a problem with, not LiPo's in general.

Joerg

These are the type issues that should be addressed on this thread, you guys pounding the F-ing saftey side of this to tears need to open up to the other issues.POINT MADE- EVERYTHING IS DANGEROUS IF NOT PROPERLY USED. Racing in general-NITRO-GAS-F/E- has its inherant risks(everything does) Can we move on to some of the others or just go ahead and make a completly seporate SAFTEY thread. What a waste of time and space. Ought to make voting easy on this one.

 

[Darin Jordan]

These are the type issues that should be addressed on this thread, you guys pounding the F-ing saftey side of this to tears need to open up to the other issues.

Drew... You are obviously coming into this debate late... Please, by all means... bring up some issues that we haven't ALREADY been pounding to death... Please... we need to hear them...

I'm not going to sit here and let one or two individuals give Lipos a bad name over things they "heard" about happening... Talk to Paul Pachmayer, or Brian Buaas, or Howard Tucker, or any number of other individuals who PUSH THE LIMITS of everything they have AND have been running these cells for an extended period of time about the "safety" issue.... Better yet... why don't you ask them how their tests of the Lipo sack went, or exactly WHAT it took to cause one of these bigger cells to go up in flames...

You guys vote your concience... it's fine by me and what America is all about... But it's seriously sounding like NAMBA Nitro guys want FE to remain the very MINOR entity in NAMBA that it's been...

 

[sjslhill]

LiPoly Batteries have two of three elements to cause a fire. Nitro and Gas do not.

Flammable electrolyte as well as Lithium

Source of ignition in stored energy

Oxygen is already all around

I don't think this will ban them, but to discuss a comparison between the two is naive. LiPoly packs are much more dangerous than Nitro or Gas.

that's all my point is.

thanks,

Steve

 

[sjslhill]

"I'm not going to sit here and let one or two individuals give Lipos a bad name over things they "heard" about happening..."

Thanks Darin, this ends it for me. Thank you for your respect that you have for me.

regards,

Steve

 

[T.S.Davis]

FUN(remember that word)

It's a distant memory Dennis.

I hope that somewhere out there is a silent group that's taking all this BS in and thinking for themselves. The personal attacks on both my integrity and intellegence far outway the joy I get from this hobby. Those that truely know me know where my dedication lies.

I think I'm going to take a break till after Chistmas to cool off. Maybe till the 1st. I don't know.

Merry Christmas fellas.

 

[Andy Greene]

These are the type issues that should be addressed on this thread, you guys pounding the F-ing saftey side of this to tears need to open up to the other issues.

Drew... You are obviously coming into this debate late... Please, by all means... bring up some issues that we haven't ALREADY been pounding to death... Please... we need to hear them...

I'm not going to sit here and let one or two individuals give Lipos a bad name over things they "heard" about happening... Talk to Paul Pachmayer, or Brian Buaas, or Howard Tucker, or any number of other individuals who PUSH THE LIMITS of everything they have AND have been running these cells for an extended period of time about the "safety" issue.... Better yet... why don't you ask them how their tests of the Lipo sack went, or exactly WHAT it took to cause one of these bigger cells to go up in flames...

You guys vote your concience... it's fine by me and what America is all about... But it's seriously sounding like NAMBA Nitro guys want FE to remain the very MINOR entity in NAMBA that it's been...

Sorry Darin, Ive read it from post one and kept my comments to myself and tried to take it all in. From my stand point it has NOTHING to do with gas vs nitro,just my 2 cents. How about this -Allowing LiPo's is fine with me, I just don't like, that for doing so, the rules were changed to allow more than double power in each class. That's what I have a problem with, not LiPo's in general-

 

[Joe_Knesek]

5 pages of posts and only about 1/2 a page of useful content. Let's get real here. The words equity & racing is an oxymoron & it's naive to think that we can or should try to level set classes that allow for creative freedom.

 

[Darin Jordan]

-Allowing LiPo's is fine with me, I just don't like, that for doing so, the rules were changed to allow more than double power in each class. That's what I have a problem with, not LiPo's in general-

Excellent... then we are on a very similiar page...

So... what kind of limits would you suggest?

 

[Andy Greene]

-Allowing LiPo's is fine with me, I just don't like, that for doing so, the rules were changed to allow more than double power in each class. That's what I have a problem with, not LiPo's in general-

Excellent... then we are on a very similiar page...

So... what kind of limits would you suggest?

That would be the reason I have quielty watched and listened from a distance. I will be the first to tell you I DONT KNOW and I dont have the magical answer. I was hoping to become better informed and get a better idea what the end users would like to see amongst themsevles and discuss it in a reasonable fasion here. We see were that went. I wish you guys the best

 

[Don Ferrette]

-Allowing LiPo's is fine with me, I just don't like, that for doing so, the rules were changed to allow more than double power in each class. That's what I have a problem with, not LiPo's in general-

Excellent... then we are on a very similiar page...

So... what kind of limits would you suggest?

Unf**king believable! SIX pages later and we are back to the ONLY 2 things I've been asking about from the get go, come up with something or even ideas to make things fairly equal in terms of your choice of power in the various classes & some thought & pro-activeness into the safety of lipo's. I thought the IC people were thick in the head but some of you guys take the cake. I have seen this go from people being "offended" to the trading of insults to posts from those who just feel like being a smart ass & offer nothing of substance to .. well enough already. Not to mention I'm STILL trying to figure out where this notion of wanting to "ban" lipo's even came from. :angry: