where has all the NItro gone

[Don Ferrette]

As far as CMDi making parts, do you have any idea what it takes to write a program for the MAZAK even for something simple? It's not as easy as many seem to think it is..........


I think you are dead wrong about that Don, I've worked with people who did nothing but programing and setup and they all swear by Mazatrol. Much easier and simpler than G codes.

Key to CNC machining is having a great programer/operator and lot of tooling and niether comes cheap.

Absolutely agree with you but what I was really getting at is some seem to think this something anyone can do. I know Andy has been going thru a wicked learning curve in the last 6 months or so.

 

[Mark Bullard]

Who are the PAS Brothers.................I still have tape from 2000. The were MY reason for a 90 CMB twin................I still run that tape just to make sure I an in the ball park.
"Talk about controled AGGRESSION" and on the BOUYS!!! :lol: :lol:

Yep thats a good one. I met Jason and Steve at the 95 Bartow Internats. I think it was there first one to attend. Ask them what happen when they were chasing my Twin in a race with their Twin. We still laugh about that when we see each other.

My memory is of that race is fuzzy, was I lapping you or chasing you :lol:

Don't you remember that hole I left you in the turn. LOL

 

[JS_Racing]

Absolutely Jason, hope everything goes well for you and Steve. BTW- how's that 3M trim tape holding up?

Hey Don,

It's still sticking strong

That's good stuff....

Thanks again,

Steve

 

[AndyBrown]

Frank,

I think what Don was meaning to say is "do you have any idea what it takes to write a program for a 9-axis MAZAK with a brand new control that had no field testing and has loads of Bugs?"

Seriously, I have issues they can't even solve at headquarters in Japan.

Mazak is in my shop again this week upgrading software and replacing computer hardware. They told me this will NOT fix all of the issues and they will be back again in March with yet another major upgrade that Japan is currently working on.

This is the world's largest machine tool builder we are talking about here..... and some of you think I'm slow!

P.S. Frank, Mazatrol is awesome for turning, drilling, threading, and just O.K. for milling.

However, it does not have 5-axis capabilities. That part of the programing requires EIA/ISO (G-code). I use both.

 

[JS_Racing]

My memory is of that race is fuzzy, was I lapping you or chasing you :lol:

Don't you remember that hole I left you in the turn. LOL

Hey Mark,

Good to hear from you....the only thing I remember was how hard you and Doc were laughing Those sure were some good times......

Steve

 

[tnrcboatracer]

Tooling is really key to CNC success. We have about $4,000,000 worth of tooling in house. Our machining lines cost about $600,000,000, but there are over 250 CNC machining centers. We don't do any 5 axis machining, though some of the stations do have 6 axis programs. We lock down the fixture's tilt and rotary axis before machining. I know that Andy is doing cordinated 5 and 6 axis motions. His machine leaves ours in the dustreally is amazing. I wish I could come up with the backing to do what Andy has done. I guess that there's always the lottery.

 

[John Finch]

Control line airplanes at age 12.

R/C planes at age 15. Had to build the tx and rx from a kit. Escapements, not servos.

First Model boat at age 17. Mc Koy red head 60 in a fiberglass, 3 point hydro. I have video.

Age 17 to 53 Mostly nitro, some electric.

Age 53 to 54 gas.

Age 54 to 55 gas and nitro.

Age 55 to 56 gas and nitro.

Age 57 Gas.

Still like nitro, but gas just makes more sense for every day fun racing.

Another "right on" for Andy.

 

[Scott Norris]

Don't seem to see your name on the Spring Nats list John. Must be a mistake, or you entry is in the mail. Right??

 

[JKramer]

Just to add a little to the nitro/gas topic. How much longer do you people think nitro motors will be around. Almost all major motorcycle racing is four stroke. Will boating follow, again lots of outboards are now four stroke.

 

[Preston_Hall]

I am curious to know what the trends are in RC Airplanes and Helicopters. It seems that there is still a very strong nitro presence and a lot of different engine manufacturers, for these disciplines. Does anyone on Iwaters have any insight into the flyers??
I run both gas and nitro and think the gas growth is all about the plug and play aspect. My observation is that all of the new Gas boaters are 40+ yr olds not teens or kids. Deep pockets and not much modelling experience but very anxious to be competitive. With gas boats you can pretty much buy all the parts, and assemble a nationally competitive boat/motor regardless if you can drive it, or understand your limitations or the boats. The gas hardware, hull, and engine manufacturers and even the resellers really do an unreal job of supporting and promoting the hobby. At the Gas Nats this year I have never seen so many door prizes and class awards, that included hulls, hardware, engines etc. Zenoah supplied a new engine for each National class etc.

I also found that the Gas Nats attendees were a very social group with the Friday night pot luck dinner for all just a wonderful experience. People from all around the country brought food from Crabs and Lobster from the south to steak from Texas to pork etc. etc. That social atmosphere is really very appealling and makes the hobby even more enjoyable. I think there is a lot that we nitro guys could learn from the gas boaters in making our world more appealing to the newcomer.. Tony J

Tony,

I personally have switched to gas in the planes. The reasoning is the cost of fuel that you pump through the larger engines. Sure the gas engines cost more but they sound cool and are very reliable. The events I have attended consist of 30% planes and up. These require at least a 50cc engine so nitro is out. The clubs I visit also seem to be steering toward gas and large planes. The .60 size planes and smaller seem to be steering toward electrics. The electric helicopters are really starting to boom as well. I can easily see the nitro going to electrics.

 

[Preston_Hall]

I don't know about a hostile takeover but Huskqvarna has bought a nice hunk of Kamatso/Zenoah.

It's already done Husqvarna officially took over on April 2nd of last year. It will be business as usual other than a few managerial name changes- <a href="http://www.rentalpulse.com/article.asp?ARTID=4242" target="_blank">http://www.rentalpulse.com/article.asp?ARTID=4242</a>

Don't be supprised if they move operations to China , Husqvarna is another company to jump on the cheap labour band wagon.

Hopefully it won't hurt the quality of the engines.

Tim K

Tim,

When in China I went past a Komatsu plant. They are already there in some way. Certainly the gas engines are only a matter of time before being shipped out. China is already producing gas airplane engines that are said to do fairly well.

 

[Ray Sametz]

Control line airplanes at age 12.R/C planes at age 15. Had to build the tx and rx from a kit. Escapements, not servos.

First Model boat at age 17. Mc Koy red head 60 in a fiberglass, 3 point hydro. I have video.

Age 17 to 53 Mostly nitro, some electric.

Age 53 to 54 gas.

Age 54 to 55 gas and nitro.

Age 55 to 56 gas and nitro.

Age 57 Gas.

Still like nitro, but gas just makes more sense for every day fun racing.

Another "right on" for Andy.

John, That video must be from a Kodak " Brownie" 8mm movie camara. I still have my parents old camara, it's a wind up. Cool stuff.

 

[Preston_Hall]

I don't know about a hostile takeover but Huskqvarna has bought a nice hunk of Kamatso/Zenoah.

It's already done Husqvarna officially took over on April 2nd of last year. It will be business as usual other than a few managerial name changes- <a href="http://www.rentalpulse.com/article.asp?ARTID=4242" target="_blank">http://www.rentalpulse.com/article.asp?ARTID=4242</a>

Don't be supprised if they move operations to China , Husqvarna is another company to jump on the cheap labour band wagon.

Hopefully it won't hurt the quality of the engines.

Tim K

Inorder to build model marine engines in house, it will take a bunch more equipment than just a Mazak. Heat treating, chrome plating, id and od grinding, plus inspection equipment. If this equipment isnt in house, the chroming, grinding etc. will have to be farmed out. Its going to be a real fine line here, in order to make a honest buck. CMB has been building engines for years, and most likely has much manufacturing equipment in house. If there would have been a profit to be had, i believe cmdi would have had MAC replacement parts available, months ago. Richard D

Not sure what you are getting at here Richard (no offense) but if you think China is not capable of doing the work you are sadly mistaken.

Tim K

You can be sure of that. I visited a few machine shops oer there. The best I saw had Japanese eqipment that even the Chinese said was the best. I asked of tolerances of +/- .001", they laugh as .0001" is no problem. They only thing China lacks, generally speaking, is the metallergy.

 

[Preston_Hall]

Control line airplanes at age 12.R/C planes at age 15. Had to build the tx and rx from a kit. Escapements, not servos.

First Model boat at age 17. Mc Koy red head 60 in a fiberglass, 3 point hydro. I have video.

Age 17 to 53 Mostly nitro, some electric.

Age 53 to 54 gas.

Age 54 to 55 gas and nitro.

Age 55 to 56 gas and nitro.

Age 57 Gas.

Still like nitro, but gas just makes more sense for every day fun racing.

Another "right on" for Andy.

I am not as old as John but I agree about the fun part. When a nitro boat is not right, then you kind of just go around the course. However a gas boat seems to go no matter what. Even if not 100% you can make it do things. I did not adjust my boat once last year. I didn't win anything either. But I could consistantly go out and get others attention for 4 laps or better. Trying to decide whether to keep the same crap hull or spend $600. Crap sounds good at the moment.

 

[Tim Kish]

I think I have the answer to the question , Where has all the Nitro gone?

Walt has them all. :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Wesleys Custom RC]

I know I'm not buying any more nitro boats.............6 is my absolute limit. .......unless anybody has a open mono they want to sell

 

[Advance_United]

I am curious to know what the trends are in RC Airplanes and Helicopters. It seems that there is still a very strong nitro presence and a lot of different engine manufacturers, for these disciplines. Does anyone on Iwaters have any insight into the flyers??
I run both gas and nitro and think the gas growth is all about the plug and play aspect. My observation is that all of the new Gas boaters are 40+ yr olds not teens or kids. Deep pockets and not much modelling experience but very anxious to be competitive. With gas boats you can pretty much buy all the parts, and assemble a nationally competitive boat/motor regardless if you can drive it, or understand your limitations or the boats. The gas hardware, hull, and engine manufacturers and even the resellers really do an unreal job of supporting and promoting the hobby. At the Gas Nats this year I have never seen so many door prizes and class awards, that included hulls, hardware, engines etc. Zenoah supplied a new engine for each National class etc.

I also found that the Gas Nats attendees were a very social group with the Friday night pot luck dinner for all just a wonderful experience. People from all around the country brought food from Crabs and Lobster from the south to steak from Texas to pork etc. etc. That social atmosphere is really very appealling and makes the hobby even more enjoyable. I think there is a lot that we nitro guys could learn from the gas boaters in making our world more appealing to the newcomer.. Tony J

Tony,

I personally have switched to gas in the planes. The reasoning is the cost of fuel that you pump through the larger engines. Sure the gas engines cost more but they sound cool and are very reliable. The events I have attended consist of 30% planes and up. These require at least a 50cc engine so nitro is out. The clubs I visit also seem to be steering toward gas and large planes. The .60 size planes and smaller seem to be steering toward electrics. The electric helicopters are really starting to boom as well. I can easily see the nitro going to electrics.

Some very high profile competitors in the large scale aerobatic airplane world have produced electrics that perform on par or better than their gas counterparts. Electric is making inroads into all aspects of model aviation. Bob Violet, himself a former C/L Speed flyer, now has an electric ducted fan that will do as well as the turbines.

C/L @ age 12 with Rat Racing, 30% Nitro with a dash of NitroBenzene - Love the smell.

Class D Speed with a Mac -60- in 1967. North American Speed Society 200 club with an OS 65VR-DF in 1986. Boat racing after getting pulled through the pylon one too many times. High performance nitro in planes is all but extinct. AMA dictates 10% "cough syrup" across the board. No Propylene Oxide allowed.

My boating interests are still a mixed bag. Hull types are more of a factor than power.

Bob Heywood

Dayton, OH

 

[John Finch]

Don't seem to see your name on the Spring Nats list John. Must be a mistake, or you entry is in the mail. Right??

Atlanta has bad memories of home boy rules. I could write a book on my times in Atlanta. It used to be a regular stop for me on the racing schedule. Here are a couple of examples.......I was racing my mono many years ago and hit the start right on. Two home boys jumped the start by about 20 to 30 feet. I raced 6 laps, gave my position as first place , and was then told I got 3rd. When I questioned the CD he said they were only over give or take 10 feet. Another year an Atlanta local was out to get me for no reason. He was obviously trying to take me out. I don't race like that. He came off the drivers stand running his mouth and cussing me for not running with him. I went all the way to the south 40 to get away from him and he followed me out there. Steve Speas put him in a head lock when he wouldn't shut up. The guys wife even got into it. I don't need that stuff. So...........I am hesitant to travel 11 hours for stuff like that. I don't want to hurt anybodys feelings and I hate to wine, because clubs and people change over the years. KP talked me into going again about nine or so years ago, and I said what the heck, I'll try it again. The guys were great, but there was a thunder storm with lightning all over the place. I elected not to run in the lightning, but the race went on. I left before the race was over because the storm had settled in and it was near the end of the weekend. I have not been back since. It's the only race I have ever been to that I left before the race was over. Racing in a lightning storm is insane! I don't need that.

 

[waltr]

I think I have the answer to the question , Where has all the Nitro gone?
Walt has them all. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Na.......

We're in the process of getting a new pond, so I have enough to field all the classes without anyone having to bring boats.

I figure no one will have an excuse not to race that way.

Actually, I'm liquidating quite a few of the Nitro burners now too.

And I've discovered gas boats now. 2 OBs, an Insane Rigger and a Seaducer. Consistant and can run in crappy water unlike my 20 hydros. How can you not like them?

I still intend to run the Nitro races (just love that smell), but I see some gas races in the future too.

Also need a gas boat for something to do in Flint when it's too rough for the little ones. Like 80-90% of the time.

 

[Rigged]

Well, i havent been racing with the atlanta club for years and years, but i can tell you that when Wendy *YOUR OVER* Morton is CD.... it doesnt matter if you are 10ft over or a 1/4 of an inch over..... you get called over. In all the races at "Home" that i went to in 07, there was never anyone trying to intentionally take anyone out... at least that were "Home Boys". There was guys that dont know what holding your lane on the start going into and out of turn 1 means (going from lane 10 to 1)...but interesting enough they were out of towners.