where has all the NItro gone

[moparbarn]

i think nitro may have backed up in some areas and not others, due to the number of lhs's in an area & what they support. one shop may only stock what the owner is interested in most, or what makes $. the fewer shops in an area, the narrower the focus, imo. a GOOD, FULL LINE lhs can be a long drive for some, narrowing the hobbiest's choices. the plug & play aspect of gas and NITRO TRUCKS is what is & will affect NEW boaters decisions. the current crop of rtr off road trucks and buggies are about as easy a nitro set as imagineable. but, by being nitro, it is easier for those people to transfer to nitro boats. the rtr nitro boats are FAR behind even the same manufacturer's own truck in terms of ease of use, speed/competetivness, & durability. the rtr traxxas jato 3.3 is 65 realistic mph-out of the box! a miss bud is what-30 mph? ( i know that those 2 aren't both traxxas, just common examples) where's the kid gonna go....... i won't say i'll never run gas, but i'm all nitro now. i agree with model building, kids don't really even do that nowadays....... too much other stuff we didn't have, to catch their attention. plus the huge "i want it now" attitude that has been allowed to flourish. if you can find a young modeler, be a mentor, as they're getting harder to find, imho. BTW, i STILL have control line planes, andy.

 

[katman]

Very good points on the decline of nitro gentlemen. I to believe

nitro is going down some. A good example is the Orlando winternats.

Go to there website and look at the entries for nitro this year.

the nitro entries have gone down for the last two years.

Keith

 

[Lay26]

i've heard that the winter nats is a or is becomming a premier GAS boat race and that the spring nats the same for nitro, have you heard this sentiment. Also what do you guys consider a youngster? also what get me going is kicking butt with a boat that is homebuilt or unpopular, now i've gotton my butt kicked but that makes me even more determined to come back strong next time

 

[Don Ferrette]

Well one thing I can tell you for sure is the ONLY thing cheaper about gas boats is the fuel. I run both & they are no cheaper to build or maintain or any easier to work on, that is a big time fallacy. If you are going to run in the non stock motor classes you will spend roughly $1000 on a modded Zenoah, water cooled header & pipe before you even have a hull to put it in. Also the bigger hulls are typically $400 and up. A prime example is the new classic Thunderboat class, I built the wood Zippkits boat which is a bargain at $200 shipped but the hull manufacturers are already jumping all over this and charging $500-600 and up for hulls with U.S. shipping of $70-90 because they are OS3 sized. With the gas motors you have a host of other things to deal with that you do not have in nitro- full spark ignition systems using 2 coils, these parts can & do fail & are not cheap (funny how a complete stock Zen is about $225 but one coil is $55) phenolic carb isolator blocks that warp, O rings in the water cooled mainfolds & pipes that leak, carbs that need regular servicing (diaphragms need replacing often) or semi-frequent replacing, pull starts that jam or break etc. etc. And if you stuff one running hard, all I can say is open your wallet! The gas stuff in general tends be somewhat expensive, I spent more on my pipe, header & manifold for my classic t-boat than I did on the stock motor. You think popular stuff sells fast on here, you should see how quick used parts worth having get snatched up on Jim's Gas Dock! The argument that gas is easier is only true when everything is working properly and there is more to potentially fail when you run them. There is no less maintenance with gas than nitro, sure you don't blow out the motor at the end of the day but there is still a bunch of stuff you need to look after & maintain for peak performance, more so than nitro. Don't take this as a slam on gas, it's not, rather a reality check. I own & enjoy running both and will continue to do so but let's keep it on the up and up when comparing the two. B)

 

[topfuel443]

We have 270 tunnels signed up this year(and we had to turn many away), 3 months ahead of the race, and only 10-11 of those are gas, the rest are all nitro. This is only one race, and one type of hull. I dont think nitro is declining as a whole, maybe certain classes, sure, but that has always been an up and down situation. Gas is for sure on the rise, and has been for many years. This is a good thing. This is an expensive hobby, no matter how you slice it or how you power it.

Its certainly regional as well, if your club starts to run all Gas, why not go with it instead of fighting it. You may actually find out...dare I say it... that you like it! Racing is racing, if its got an engine and makes noise, I am all for it.

~James

 

[Rigged]

If you are going to run in the non stock motor classes you will spend roughly $1000 on a modded Zenoah, water cooled header & pipe before you even have a hull to put it in.

wow what pipe are you buying. The only zenoah with pipe setup i know of that will you $1000 would be the M&D Cast 254 and M&D Titanium pipe ($700 for motor, $275 or so for pipe = $975). Most Mod zenoahs are $500-600 and you can get pipes everywhere from $120-190. Thats $650-800 in a good mod zenoah with pipe. You can buy the QD25HT and Hotpipe for $850, and not have a jug thats junk if it gets scored up.

I dont see too much of a difference in the nitro side of it. I see the CMB 91RS listed at $625, 1.01RS @ $650. Right up there in price with the most expensive Mod Zenoahs...

 

[Tim Kish]

I really don't think any of what is happening is due to cost , I really believe gas is just the in thing right now and people are always looking for the next new and exciting thing to try , that tends to be the nature of the hobby just look at the excitement around the new Thunder boat class.

I doubt the number of racers has changed much in the past tweny years and we now have F.E. , gas and Nitro all at competetive levels so some will drop in numbers while others enjoy a boost in popularity.

Tim K

 

[Don Ferrette]

If you are going to run in the non stock motor classes you will spend roughly $1000 on a modded Zenoah, water cooled header & pipe before you even have a hull to put it in.

wow what pipe are you buying. The only zenoah with pipe setup i know of that will you $1000 would be the M&D Cast 254 and M&D Titanium pipe ($700 for motor, $275 or so for pipe = $975). Most Mod zenoahs are $500-600 and you can get pipes everywhere from $120-190. Thats $650-800 in a good mod zenoah with pipe. You can buy the QD25HT and Hotpipe for $850, and not have a jug thats junk if it gets scored up.

I dont see too much of a difference in the nitro side of it. I see the CMB 91RS listed at $625, 1.01RS @ $650. Right up there in price with the most expensive Mod Zenoahs...

Hansen super quiet pipe- $175 (old price- now $195 if you can find one)

CC Racing steel 90* header- $34

CC Racing no leak manifold- $35

Stock 260 motor- $225

The CC & Butch motors (two of the more popular) full mods are $650+ last I heard. The CMB big blocks are currently around $535 if you know where to look. The point is it isn't any cheaper to run gas, it's all become relative really. Like I said before it's no slam, I like both but it definitely ain't cheaper. B)

 

[Rigged]

Carlo motors are still $595, and so were Butch motors last i heard.

You're right it isnt any cheaper, but it really isnt much more either.

 

[Wesleys Custom RC]

If I'm not mistaken IMPBA had a record number of members last year. I'm not sure about NAMBA. That tells me that there may be a shift back and forth in some places but overall RC boating is healthy. I now that there are alot of 1/8 scale boats being built in this area (Madison, IN to St. Louis) and all are nitro. I think it has alot to do with the location of races. If there are alot of spectators and the drivers are willing to answer questions then you will get new drivers and money has little to do with it. You have to give your first born to buy a CMB but they are way more reliable than motors were, say, 10 years ago. THAT will bring new and old boaters back.

 

[Dan_Cousin]

I've always said that about gas vs nitro boats in costs. Early on when gas was still new and the stock Zenoah was king, you could get a boat going at a resonable price. The boats were bit and stable bacaue the engines were not putting out the power they are today so the gass boats got the reputation of being ultra reliable. NOW the boats are a little smaller and the motor are stronger and the gas boats are going much faster, they flip and stall just like the nitro boats.

As performance goes up, price goes up. Thats that.

 

[Advance_United]

Lou Dobbs often expresses the adage that "The market is always right". The word is relevant. LSG has appeal in at least three areas. The boats are generally on the larger side as models go. The popular types all look like real boats. The pull start gasoline engine is pretty familiar to almost anyone.

Nitro riggers have pretty much developed themselves out of a market. They have become so fast and exotic that, except for a small number of specialists, they have lost relevence. In our area, at least, nitro monos are non-existent for the same reason. LS27 Mono, on the other hand, has a huge following.

In the past five years all of the new members to our club joined because of LSG. Most don't race competitively but they do like bragging rights for having the fastest boat on the pond. Also, some of the members who started when nitro was all that was available have either switched completely or added LSG to their fleet.

Drawing a dividing line between Nitro, LSG, and FE is not an issue for me. I look at all boat racing, both full sized and models, as a single entity with different facets.

Bob Heywood

Dayton, OH

 

[BigChuck]

For the individual that has draw a point about the two National race being seprate. IT was NOT the intention of the ATLANTA MODEL BOATERS to EVER make it look like that. However if you read the post as written by.............?? He stated " may be we should make it the GAS WINTER NATS."

I Personally wanted the ATLANTA race to Show case the BEST OF THE BEST!!!! But Not Everyone has this idea.Some VERY MUCH, want the lines divided. Why I do not know. But As in other postings. You can not ask of people, what you would not ask of yourself. I race Nitro Twin. I asked for my fellow competitors to come and race here in a twin only class. I have, and will take my twin to other locations to return the request made to me as a competitor. IF no gas racers leave here to race in ANY OTHER LOCATION...................Why are you, as a gas racer going to come to Atlanta.

Jeff Machuid, Carlo,Butch the list is endless,TRUE racers in every meaning of the word. But can I ask then to come to Atlanta and race me? Brain watts is doing the Winter Nats races. Dose it make scense,that the number there would support that.

Location is Key, but being in that level of competition with the other KEY racers in you classes is what makes the differce to me.

 

[Roxyflash]

I got one other thing to add.Ever tried buying parts for you older MAC or CMB?Kinda a bad deal as you cant buy them.Whats wrong with nitro if you got a engine that needs parts your out of luck.Wonder why im selling off my MAC engines.Your other choice is to buy new.Now that the current Gas engines no problem getting parts.You can buy them from almost any hobby shop.Theres Goped shops and your boat suppliers.Nitro needs more dealers with parts.So i got a engine that needs a piston and sleeve guess i cant get one so i have to buy a new engine.THATS WHATS WRONG WITH NITRO.

 

[robertpickard]

One thing is you can use the cmb green head 20 to interchange parts as far as getting them hmm i dont have trouble cmb parts you can get easily. I will stick with nitro you can have them expensive gas boats they do nothing for me. Robert

 

[Ronald van Essen]

We have 270 tunnels signed up this year(and we had to turn many away), 3 months ahead of the race, and only 10-11 of those are gas, the rest are all nitro. This is only one race, and one type of hull. I dont think nitro is declining as a whole, maybe certain classes, sure, but that has always been an up and down situation. Gas is for sure on the rise, and has been for many years. This is a good thing. This is an expensive hobby, no matter how you slice it or how you power it. ~James

We just have to wait and see if these numbers will change over the years...

ROnald.

 

[Joe Warren]

For the individual that has draw a point about the two National race being seprate. IT was NOT the intention of the ATLANTA MODEL BOATERS to EVER make it look like that. However if you read the post as written by.............?? He stated " may be we should make it the GAS WINTER NATS."
I Personally wanted the ATLANTA race to Show case the BEST OF THE BEST!!!! But Not Everyone has this idea.Some VERY MUCH, want the lines divided. Why I do not know. But As in other postings. You can not ask of people, what you would not ask of yourself. I race Nitro Twin. I asked for my fellow competitors to come and race here in a twin only class. I have, and will take my twin to other locations to return the request made to me as a competitor. IF no gas racers leave here to race in ANY OTHER LOCATION...................Why are you, as a gas racer going to come to Atlanta.

Jeff Machuid, Carlo,Butch the list is endless,TRUE racers in every meaning of the word. But can I ask then to come to Atlanta and race me? Brain watts is doing the Winter Nats races. Dose it make scense,that the number there would support that.

Location is Key, but being in that level of competition with the other KEY racers in you classes is what makes the differce to me.

I`am sure the gas boaters that do show up @ Atlanta... You will have to be on the Start & Running Hard to finish on the podium. the Competition is always Great @ the Atlanta Spring Nats race....... Gas or Nitro

 

[BigChuck]

ROXY..............??? Are you Trying something!!!

The THREAD on JIM'S is that ZENOAH is in HOSTLE TAKEOVER!!! But IT will BE business as USUAL. :blink:

NEW model Engine can't get part??? OH the PLOt THickness!!! Looks like your Zenoahs is going to make PICCO look like ..................COUSINS................ :lol: :lol:

 

[Ron Olson]

I don't know about a hostile takeover but Huskqvarna has bought a nice hunk of Kamatso/Zenoah.

 

[Don Ferrette]

I don't know about a hostile takeover but Huskqvarna has bought a nice hunk of Kamatso/Zenoah.

It's already done Husqvarna officially took over on April 2nd of last year. It will be business as usual other than a few managerial name changes- http://www.rentalpulse.com/article.asp?ARTID=4242

As for parts for MAC engines, they'll be there soon enough, Andy & CMDi didn't count on Mazak getting that machine on line 14 months LATER than promised! As for CMB not back supporting motors, that is nothing new, been like that for years, same with Picco when those were out. I got news for you, it's no different in the R/C car world either but those guys will drop big coin in a heartbeat to have the latest & greatest and dump their old stuff on Ebay. I can tell you this- if a Spud Motor Co. showed up tomorrow with the baddest boat motors out there, faster than anyone else's, people would be beating the doors down to buy them gas or nitro without thought to buying parts a year or two down the road, it's the nature of the beast. Right now a certain little shack in Italy has a stranglehold on the nitro boating market and they know it. Hopefully that will be changing real soon with Steve/ Jason Pas and CMDi getting motors out, I'm rooting for both of them as that means more choices and more choices means market competition which means better pricing ......... also the nature of the beast.