Thoughts on the Stock Class rules

[Grimracer]

KF.. You.. yup you.. (voted by the body as the most standup dude in racing) would be the keeper of the engines and you would have to oversee them being installed and cared for.. then you get to box them back up and take them home for the next race...then when that traveling buddy of yours.. whats his name.. "Hot Shoe Magoo" wins the big one. you get accused "being involved in a scheme" because you "handed him" the motor... just a comment but true.. you can see that coming right?

Z E R O percent chance that's going to work.

Grim

 

[K F Wheeler]

That's why you keep switching them through the race randomly!! Grab a spectator and ask them to choose two or three to swap engines. Makes them feel like part of what's going on... You don't keep handing the same engines to the same person! Somebody is done with an engine, they put it on a table by the race director. Now ready for the next up racer to put in his boat. Nobody gets to choose their engine. They get what's given them by random. They may get to chose from what engines are already run and waiting on the table waiting for the next racer... The next racer is going to want an engine as soon as possible so he knows his boat is ready for his race. Or take a chance to grab so so's engine because it was "fast"
and not be ready for his own heat. ANY "official" could be designated if need be to not allow the engines on the table to be taken but by only the next(?) racers up.
Ken

 

[Tom Foley]

Mr Wheeler , have you ever purchased a gas boat engine or been to an entire model boat race ? I ask this for a few different reasons .

 

[ChrisHerzog]

When I’m racing at a big race I hardly have time to keep everything fueled much less swapping motors in two or three classes. Grim is correct, nice thought but it’s never going to fly. For any change to actually happen, it first has to be easier and faster then what’s currently being done.

 

[user 21992]

Yes Tom, the age thing is a bad idea, should have stated "Amateur Status" of any age. Even then, it's also a bad idea, cause it would plum-met 26cc stock Zenoah engine sales for our Distributor's. You all have fun coming up with something for those not wanting to comply to running legal stock out of the box Zenoah engines.
GOOD LUCK and a Happy New Year !!

 

[timothy johnson]

So for the most part this all seems to be about the Gas engine group of classes where the stock classes seem to have engines that just may not be stock. There could be another solution to this and that would be what the NHRA did with their stock classes and that was called "Break Out"". Simply put a time restriction, IE 1/3 or 1/4 oval, for a given class/ engine or what ever to force the cheaters to stop or run in a MOD class. This could also be done by restricting which props could be used for a stock class, IE only one size or brand prop can be run in that stock class. When you do something like this you put most of the emphasis on the driver versus the boat. It seems with all the previous comments it's tough to catch the engine cheaters, so just put a performance restriction on the class and there you have it.

 

[Zimmerman]

Ya know ... I've been knocking around this hobby since 1969. I have been racing Crackerbox for 11 years. It is a poorly attended class even at the Nat's and many times a local race cannot scrape up enough of them to make a class. Be that as it may I have started racing it with a very good mod 26 and now with a stocker since the rule changed and I honestly can't tell any difference in speed, even running the original prop. Through all of this I have NEVER raced it against a "novice". Do you guys really think allowing mod 26's in the current "stock" classes is going to cut out beginners with shallow pockets. The first thing I learned about racing (period) is it costs MONEY! I am in total agreement with the "stock" issues discussed in this thread, but trying to stop cheaters is like trying to catch a fart.

 

[dr gary turner]

Where in the hell are you going to get hand out engines? Cheating stretching the rules pleading ignorance its all part of the game.......CONSIDER THIS THUNDERBOAT REMAINS ONE OF THE LARGEST CLASSES RUN AT MOST RACES

 

[dr gary turner]

SOOOO, Do away with Stock!!!
Everyone FREE to play the game W/O shame or concern

THUNDER BOAT WILL STILL BE THE LARGEST CLASS

 

[Zimmerman]

Good thinking Doc! And Thunder boat will STILL HAVE NO NOVICES!!!

 

[ChrisHerzog]

Guy, there are 4 classes that run “Stock” motors. 2 of those classes are extremely popular all over the country. The 4 classes are…
Thunderboat
Cracker Box
Stock Mono
Stock Cat
If you change the rule like you suggested, all your really doing is adding another Sport hydro class or eliminating both Stock Mono and Thunderboat. Cracker Box use to run with mod motors and changed while I was not running boats and Stock Cat is dying a slow death so it really won’t affect those guys that much. However, by doing what you just said above, you will piss off a large majority of boaters by eliminating two of the largest classes right now at a ton of big races across the country. To put things in perspective Doc, that’s like telling nitro guys that they have to run their 1/8 Scale boats against 67 size riggers, it just isn’t going to happen and you kill a class.

Again, guys are going to push the rules no matter what they are. The goal was to determine a handful of things that everyone feels are the most important items to be checked, check those things and live with everything else. The reason being because I felt that it was dumb for someone to have to inspect and break down the entire motor, and or for someone to be DQed over something completely stupid. My personal motors for those classes are out the box stock, in fact I can count the times on one hand that I even took a stock gas motor apart. I personally don’t care if they put in a claiming rule, require a restrictor plate, limit the prop or pipe, hand out motors at a race or come up with something like I’m suggesting. I don’t have anything to hide and I don’t give a **** about winning enough in order to cheat nor have I ever had a fit because I thought someone else was. I don’t want to eliminate any classes or piss anyone off either. I only wanted to try an come up with a quicker, faster way that everyone could live with. Obviously, that’s not going to happen after reading some of the BS that has gotten posted here. People would much rather bitch and complain then try and come up with a compromise.

 

[Zimmerman]

Compromise ... OK. How about making the stock classes run a straight tube (automotive) style muffler. Something that can be measured. Then who cares what is pumping the fumes thru it (a "spec" 26, of course). What little I have said in this thread was not designed to hurt your feelings, Chris.

 

[ChrisHerzog]

Compromise ... OK. How about making the stock classes run a straight tube (automotive) style muffler. Something that can be measured. Then who cares what is pumping the fumes thru it (a "spec" 26, of course). What little I have said in this thread was not designed to hurt your feelings, Chris.

First off, I wasn’t referring to you and second, you have a long way to go before my feeling will ever get hurt with any of this. I just get tired of people not seeing the forest for the trees. Like I said people will complain but not want to change anything. It’s all good, lm good with whatever.

 

[Wesleys Custom RC]

Ss mono seems to be popular for newbies in our area and I hear more are on the way. We have run "stock" in stock cars, sprint cars as well as rc boats. I've learned that ALWAYS the class grows as long as the class is policed a people have faith in the integrity of the class.
I say, give an event an option of a claim or protest. Either, Or; not both. That would make it way easier on the club.

 

[Fred685]

I've read most of this thread and it's obvious we have a bunch of opinions, but no one has made a proposal to the IMPBA board. I don't know for sure, but I doubt anybody has proposed any changes to NAMBA either.

Here are my 2 cents.
The stock class was designed for beginners. It was to be economical, easy and a level playing field. It has evolved into something it was never designed for. Most guys who race stock also race modified. This negates the economical reasoning. I've never seen a beginner racing stock at a national event. This negates the idea it's a beginner class. The playing field isn't level for a beginner. Look at the names of who is racing stock. You have world record holders and multi time national champions racing stock. There is no way a beginner can be competitive, especially when you consider some of the engine experts have found ways to cheat. For these reasons alone the stock class is not needed. If stock went away, those boats can still be raced with a simple piston and cylinder change. The stock class has watered down the mod small block classes. For years IMPBA has refused to recognize the "P" limited electric class. Their logic was "P" limited was designed as a beginner class that was economical and competitive. Just as stock gas, it evolved into something it was never meant to be. If you apply that same logic to stock gas, there is no need for a stock class.

If stock stays around there needs to be a harsh punishment for cheating. There needs to be a strong deterrent to stop cheating. My suggestion would be a tear down would be the CD's discretion. If he chooses to tear down and finds cheating, the offending racer is banned from IMPBA/NAMBA. No exceptions. Nobody wants to race with cheaters.

I think my reasoning is sound, but is eliminating stock good for model boating as a whole? I'm not so sure. Maybe the answer is to eliminate stock at national events? With less classes to run, the mod classes could run more heats and more racers would be able to get in. Instead of 100 drivers and 400 boat races, we might have 150 drivers and 400 boats?

 

[ChrisHerzog]

I've read most of this thread and it's obvious we have a bunch of opinions, but no one has made a proposal to the IMPBA board. I don't know for sure, but I doubt anybody has proposed any changes to NAMBA either.

Here are my 2 cents.
The stock class was designed for beginners. It was to be economical, easy and a level playing field. It has evolved into something it was never designed for. Most guys who race stock also race modified. This negates the economical reasoning. I've never seen a beginner racing stock at a national event. This negates the idea it's a beginner class. The playing field isn't level for a beginner. Look at the names of who is racing stock. You have world record holders and multi time national champions racing stock. There is no way a beginner can be competitive, especially when you consider some of the engine experts have found ways to cheat. For these reasons alone the stock class is not needed. If stock went away, those boats can still be raced with a simple piston and cylinder change. The stock class has watered down the mod small block classes. For years IMPBA has refused to recognize the "P" limited electric class. Their logic was "P" limited was designed as a beginner class that was economical and competitive. Just as stock gas, it evolved into something it was never meant to be. If you apply that same logic to stock gas, there is no need for a stock class.

If stock stays around there needs to be a harsh punishment for cheating. There needs to be a strong deterrent to stop cheating. My suggestion would be a tear down would be the CD's discretion. If he chooses to tear down and finds cheating, the offending racer is banned from IMPBA/NAMBA. No exceptions. Nobody wants to race with cheaters.

I think my reasoning is sound, but is eliminating stock good for model boating as a whole? I'm not so sure. Maybe the answer is to eliminate stock at national events? With less classes to run, the mod classes could run more heats and more racers would be able to get in. Instead of 100 drivers and 400 boat races, we might have 150 drivers and 400 boats?

My intention was to submit something to the IMPBA that would cover the four classes the engines is used. This being Cracker Box, Stock Mono, Stock Cat and Thunderboat. One set of rules to make it easier to tech engines at a race focused on a handful of the most important items and ignoring some of the more dumb stuff like drilling out the water fittings. Clearly guys are all over the place with this and a number of guys are happy with what’s in place. So if I’m the only one that thinks some of this is just plain stupid, there is no since in going any further with it.

 

[Fred685]

I don't think it's stupid. I'm sorry if you got that impression.

 

[andy fraser]

1/8 scale onroad nitro used to run a "novice" class called sportsman, any car any motor. They ran everyting from stock 3 ports to highend 11 ports, the equalizer was a carb restrictor, can't remember the size but much smaller than typical tuning restrictors, cars maybe a different animal by powerband requirements but for W.O.T. a simple restrictor is a very effective equalizer. All you need to tech is displacement. Those also had the advantage of being simple slip in throat restrictors, only had to remove air filter and go or nogo rod the restrictor.

 

[ChrisHerzog]

I don't think it's stupid. I'm sorry if you got that impression.

It’s not you, I didn’t mean to imply that. Sorry.

 

[dr gary turner]

I've read most of this thread and it's obvious we have a bunch of opinions, but no one has made a proposal to the IMPBA board. I don't know for sure, but I doubt anybody has proposed any changes to NAMBA either.

Here are my 2 cents.
The stock class was designed for beginners. It was to be economical, easy and a level playing field. It has evolved into something it was never designed for. Most guys who race stock also race modified. This negates the economical reasoning. I've never seen a beginner racing stock at a national event. This negates the idea it's a beginner class. The playing field isn't level for a beginner. Look at the names of who is racing stock. You have world record holders and multi time national champions racing stock. There is no way a beginner can be competitive, especially when you consider some of the engine experts have found ways to cheat. For these reasons alone the stock class is not needed. If stock went away, those boats can still be raced with a simple piston and cylinder change. The stock class has watered down the mod small block classes. For years IMPBA has refused to recognize the "P" limited electric class. Their logic was "P" limited was designed as a beginner class that was economical and competitive. Just as stock gas, it evolved into something it was never meant to be. If you apply that same logic to stock gas, there is no need for a stock class.

If stock stays around there needs to be a harsh punishment for cheating. There needs to be a strong deterrent to stop cheating. My suggestion would be a tear down would be the CD's discretion. If he chooses to tear down and finds cheating, the offending racer is banned from IMPBA/NAMBA. No exceptions. Nobody wants to race with cheaters.

I think my reasoning is sound, but is eliminating stock good for model boating as a whole? I'm not so sure. Maybe the answer is to eliminate stock at national events? With less classes to run, the mod classes could run more heats and more racers would be able to get in. Instead of 100 drivers and 400 boat races, we might have 150 drivers and 400 boats?