Stock Select Vendors

[DPeterson]

LOL Duke. Last weekend was driver error, not boat performance. I'll keep my boat performance over any I've seen run. The thread is not about losing a race, it's about maintaining a level of integrity in the hobby. This select motor thing whether it is an impact or not is categorized in my mind as poor sportsmanship by the racer and un -ethical by a vendor.

 

[Mark Anderson]

Ok, I will bite what is going on that is unsportsman like or unethical? Taking a new motor apart and making sure all is well? What have you actually seen that is unethical or unsportsman like? Or maybe, I don't understand what a select stock motor is. Educate me.

 

[DPeterson]

OK Mark, I'll try to explain.

One of the many reasons I left electric was due to a vendor supplying special P-Limited motors to a select group of racers before a National Event. The P-Limited rules stated at the time the motors must be available to all racers. They were not. It could have been a performance issue but not proven. That's not the point. It was dead wrong. It's all water over the dam at this point. I can name all the racers involved and the vendor, but won't.

Now we got vendors doing select gas stock motors for a few racers. I didn't know about them did you? I keep looking where they are advertised for sale. Can't find anything. Can't even get guy's on this thread to lets us know where we can get them. Don't care about the performance issue or not. It's pathetic to say the least. Again I can name some of these vendors and have a pretty good idea what part of the country most of the racers are from, but won't.

Now would be a good time for the associations leaders to step up and communicate to both the vendors and the members, that this select motor practice has no place in maintaining the integrity of this small hobby. There are many things we can do with our time, participating alongside this kind of thing does not have to be one of them.

 

[Wasted wages]

Amazing what some folks will do for a stupid trophy or plaque....

The idea of just having fun and healthy competition is a totally lost concept to some people... and then we wonder why the hobby has problems attracting new blood into the organization....

 

[Doug Smock]

You went to LSG at the right time Doug. "Stock select" is nothing compared to what happened to P LoLimited.

 

[SayMikey]

So Doug why are you crying when your boat and setup is at worst top 3 in the country?

 

[Mark Anderson]

Doug, What specifically is a select stock motor? You are wound up about somebody having something, they got from somebody you don't know of, that you don't have? If you have personal experience with something illegal, unethical, or unsportsman like let's hear it. Other wise you are spreading rumors. What specifically are "they" doing wrong?
Frank, what is hurtfull to this hobby and does turn away new people, is reading about supposed unfair practices and unfounded claims of rampant cheating on these forums.
I have heard the term select stock motor before, but I have no idea what that means. I build all of my own motors for all classes.

 

[Wasted wages]

So do I,, and I totally understand that there maybe some benefit to tearing down several brand new engines and mix/match parts for optimum clearances and possible performance gain,,, but let's be realistic here, how much power are you going to gain ?

And to offer that service for "Joe Customer"
would require a huge outlay of money to buy enough engines to make that happen, or a huge supply of parts to select from...

And, If there is that much difference between engines on a production run to worry about tolerance stacking, then the manufacturer has bigger issues... I could maybe see a slight difference in bores, if there were several CNC cranking out thousands of cases per day and you got the first case off one machine and the 1000th case off of a different machine.
But CNC machines being what they are today, the differences have to be extremely slight. These aren't ABC piston/sleeve motors where fit is a huge part how a nitro motor runs,, these are sloppy gas motors, which is why they have piston rings in the first place, to seal the combustion chamber.
The motors inherent design requires clearance in the bore to prevent seizure..

I think there is much more power and speed to be found in the boats setup, and driver practice...

But what it does open the door to, is a few unscrupulous people that "claim" to do this select process on stock motors, when in fact they are doing nothing more than slapping a decal on the pull starter.
They are selling a pipe dream, smoke and mirrors... because after all how can one prove anything was done or checked at all ?

Anything done to alter clearances would become evident upon inspection, and if the same vendor is found to be doing it, how long do you think he would stay in business supplying stock motors ??

And what are these guru's checking these magic numbers against ?? Buncha other motors with the same tolerance stacking issues ?

Pffft,,, give me a break..

 

[DPeterson]

Thank you to the fellas that offered up some input. While not getting all the information I was looking for from the vendor side, I got enough out of this thread to figure out who to buy from, how to buy, what classes to continue with and then maybe where to race. Good stuff!

 

[Mark Anderson]

Frank, My point is, Is this actually happening? Or is it a figment of the imagination? Some body calls a motor Select Stock and suddenly there are unethical businesses and unsportsman like racers. Statments like that are not good for the hobby. The OP can't tell us what Select Stock means, or where they come from.
We are in agreement that set up, propellors and practice are what will get you on the podium.

 

[Danny King]

From what I’ve heard, select stock is when a builder disassembles many engines and specs the parts and assembles them using the best combinations with-in spec.

While on the surface this may go against the spirit of the class it is hardly illegal or unethical. It is playing within the rules. What’s stopping me as a boater from buying several engines and doing the same thing. Nothing.

Now if this practice leaves engines out there that are sold under the impression they are factory assembled and it is not disclosed they have been disassembled after leaving the factory, then that is unethical.

But the bottom line is with in-spec engines are with-in spec. A .001” here or there isn’t a game changer. Read the specs on the parts. It is a minimal tolerance difference.
Anyone running these classes needs to spec the engine they are using. Just because it’s factory assembled with factory parts doesn’t mean its with-in spec. I HAVE SEEN IT FIRST HAND. so maybe the biggest advantage to a “select stock” is it has been inspected by someone to make certain it’s with in spec.

As far a Gizmo…….I would be most shocked if anything remotely shady goes on. They do a awful lot for the hobby and their customers. And I’ve always seen them do their best to correct issues. Those kinds of people don’t intentionally do shady stuff.

Way too much emphasis is being put on this.
Nobody in this hobby is going to utilize the advantage .001” or .002” on factory parts and if they think they can then they should be the record holder as they are better than everyone else.

 

[john v]

when i run stock outboard and i take apart the powerhead and clean out the chips and make sure everything is torqued , is this illegal or unethical?. way too much drama in the stock class

 

[Mark Anderson]

To sumarize this worthless but entertaining thread. Someone proposed there was shady stuff going on without actually knowing what shady stuff. A couple people offered opinions of what shady stuff could be going on. Others offered opinions of not shady stuff that could be going on. One person threw out the name of a vender that they heard was doing shady stuff. If you have facts, lets see them. Rumers and accusations are worthless. Still no one can tell me what a Select Stock motor is or is not. Nobody has actually seen one, just heard rumors. This must be a seriously secret squirl society. I'm on my way to the print shop to get stickers made. Maybe Super Select Stock that sounds good.

 

[Wasted wages]

A lot of this nonsense was why I suggested in another thread, that it would be a great idea to approach zenoah and see if they could supply motors with tamper proofing screws etc. to insure "factory stock" motors...

Many automotive crate engines in the aftermarket are done this way...

 

[Mike Hughes]

To sumarize this worthless but entertaining thread. Someone proposed there was shady stuff going on without actually knowing what shady stuff. A couple people offered opinions of what shady stuff could be going on. Others offered opinions of not shady stuff that could be going on. One person threw out the name of a vender that they heard was doing shady stuff. If you have facts, lets see them. Rumers and accusations are worthless. Still no one can tell me what a Select Stock motor is or is not. Nobody has actually seen one, just heard rumors. This must be a seriously secret squirl society. I'm on my way to the print shop to get stickers made. Maybe Super Select Stock that sounds good.

Well I at least I got my question answered....................LOL

 

[DPeterson]

Mark. The whole reason for this thread was to find out sells these so called stock select motors. I have no idea what the hell they are. The only way to find out is to find the supplier. I'm not a motor guy but its sounds as though you are. If you can find out please enlighten us.

The issue came up when a guy posted a TB for sale on this site that had a Roger Payne Select Stock motor in it that included an after market cap. Along with that I was unable to purchase a sealed box stock motor from either Gizmo or BH Hansen. So I posted here to get more supplier info. My bad.

 

[Steve Anderson]

I saw a build recently that used” Roger Payne power” for 26 stock class. It doesn’t seem to be a secret, so I guess you could call him and ask about the engines.

 

[john v]

roger is the guy to call

 

[mark ham]

so stock class is no longer box stock but stock spec??? I have raced go karts for over 45 years off and on, a box stock motor and a legal stock motor is a notable difference in karting, I'm sure it would make a difference in boats as well. There are a lot of things you can do to a stock motor and still be legal per specs, we all know there are manufacturing tolerances built into all engines, that's why you can buy a 604 crate engine from Chevy for 5000 or pay Hamner or Progressive 12000 for the same engine and it will pass tech, just voicing my opinion, don't shoot the messenger.

 

[Steve Anderson]

so stock class is no longer box stock but stock spec???

NAMBA is certainly not “box stock”.

NAMBA G-Limited is “Zenoah G260 PUM with no modifications allowed except those noted below.”