Stock Select Vendors

[osracer]

I get what Doug is saying. If a supplier sells select engines made up of stock parts that all match to make a supposedly better stock motor then, they are not going to throw away the left over parts. They will assemble another engine and sell it as stock. That engine may or may not be as good as a stock out of the box engine.

 

[Mark Anderson]

Again, Is this happening? Internet speculation is worthless. Why even say it if you don't know. If you have evidence of something shady, lets see it! What venders do YOU have proof of selling hodgepodged together engines? Not my buddies sisters cousin told me that he overheard someone talking about it at a race. Actual proof.
I don't have a dog in this fight, just tired of the baseless accusations on these forumns. Lets protect each other and discuss actual situations not point fingers based on rumors.

 

[Mike Byer]

Stop using the word stock in any class name and all this goes away. Stock class racing of anything is just no good. It isn't a cheap entry level group and only causes fights, arguements and hard feelings. Every form of racing that I have ever been envoled with stock classes have been a hotbed of rule benders and crafty cheaters. You're better off if anything goes and let your check be your guide. That way you're just a big spender, not trying to slide something by everyone.

 

[Duke Mordja]

How much for a Roger Payne "Select" stock motor? If its legal, I will give it a try.
Is there a website to buy one from or a contact # for Roger Payne? I see there was a phone# and email from 6 years ago here on IW. I called the phone goes to a voicemail (not sure it is his voicemail). I want to call him and ask a few questions to post some answers here.
Maybe I will be able to determine if its legal or not after some education.

 

[Mark Anderson]

Interstingly niether NAMBA or IMPBA call it Stock. In NAMBA it is G-Limited, In IMPBA it is Super Stock.
Duke, I believe that Doug has been given contact info. I will guarantee that Roger is a stand up guy with nothing shady going on. I do not use his engines, but have known him for years.

 

[Duke Mordja]

Interstingly niether NAMBA or IMPBA call it Stock. In NAMBA it is G-Limited, In IMPBA it is Super Stock.
Duke, I believe that Doug has been given contact info. I will guarantee that Roger is a stand up guy with nothing shady going on. I do not use his engines, but have known him for years.

Thank Mark.

 

[DPeterson]

Mark. I have not been given contact information for Roger Payne. I have no interest in Roger Payne. I am not looking for a what's called a Select Motor. I am looking for suppliers that will sell me sealed in the box stock motors.

Everything I wrote in my last post is absolutely the truth or I would never had wrote it. Rather than continually trying to squash constructive and civil threads on these stock motor issues that happen to be of interest to the majority of the members, maybe you could explain further your position on it. And maybe rather than trying to dis-credit me maybe you could explain what it is your hiding.

 

[Duke Mordja]

There is no box with a new engine? Seems silly to re-package a new engine.

 

[Mark Anderson]

Doug, sorry I thought that you had asked for Rogers contact info in the for sale add. I was wrong, it was someone else. Not trying to discredit anyone. Just asking that before accusations are made maybe get some facts. And there you go, now I am hiding something?

 

[user 21992]

I agree with Doug point of interest, remember years back when I first started buying 26cc stock engines for the, Thunder Boat Class, they where always shipped in original Zenoah boxes. one day I had a vendor, Gizmo, that was out of stock on 26cc Zenoah engines, so I went to another vendor, which was Bonzi. When this engine arrived, it was not in the original box, so being up set a bit, I made a call to Bonzi and sent the motor back. Looking back, this was kind of stupid on my part !!

So after a year or so of not being able to get this engines in original box, I have to assume that they are taken out off the original box and the original carburetor removed and repackage to accommodate the end buyer, with what I believe, are only better carburetor options.

Why are the engines not put back into the original box ?? Would like "to hear from vendors point of view", as to why the original box is eliminate, to hopefully end this issue. I personally would like the engine to come in it's original box and buy the carb of my choice separately. HAPPY MOTORING "STITCH"

 

[Mark Anderson]

John, It is my belief that they use a smaller box to save on shipping costs. The Zenoah box is much larger then needed. Best to call distributors and ask. Maybe they will let you pay extra for one in the Zenoah box.

 

[Don Ferrette]

Interesting thread.....
But this "select stock" or whatever you want to call it is nothing new. Been going on ever since "stock" motors were required no matter if it's gas, nitro or electric. Take a handful of new motors/engines, they all get torn down and parts are fitted for optimum tolerances. Is it legal? By the way the rules are in both orgs. it sure is. Is it ethical? Maybe... maybe not. Opinions vary. Can it make a difference?? Yup. Saw it myself years ago on a .21 o/b nitro tunnel boat. Watched same day back to back to back testing of a "fitted" stock engine vs. an out of the factory box stock and the "fitted" engine was faster to the tune of 3-4 mph on radar. Every single time. And it's not just boats. An old friend who was a "factory sponsored" r/c car guy told me how they got "stock" stuff the average Joe would never get. Got so bad that the R.O.A.R rules got changed in 2019 to allow claiming of "spec wind" motors. Anyone who thinks fitting a motor/engine to optimum tolerances doesn't produce a better motor/engine is kidding themselves. Competition breeds looking for an edge, any edge and that includes bending and/or exploiting the rules as much as possible. And people wonder why the inspection rules are so complex for the "stock" gas classes.

And that's why I'll no longer run any class requiring "stock" motors.

Carry on folks, just my two cents.................

 

[DPeterson]

John, It is my belief that they use a smaller box to save on shipping costs. The Zenoah box is much larger then needed. Best to call distributors and ask. Maybe they will let you pay extra for one in the Zenoah box.

Pretty weak excuse. The customer pays the shipping cost. The cost and time to re-pack makes no sense.

One of the motors I received by a fore-mentioned supplier showed it had clearly been dis-assembled.

As a young kid I was told not to play in a sand box with turds in it.

 

[LohringMiller]

We've dyno tested a lot of engines. Stock Zenoahs with the same pipe were identical in power within the precision of our dyno. The parts I've measured were identical and even squish clearances were very close. This was not true of hand built or limited production engines. We ran carefully selected engines for our GX1 gas SAW records. On stock engines the pipe made the most difference. Break in also adds power. Neither will be noticeable in heat racing. Props, setup, and driving are more important.

Lohring Miller

 

[Frankor Jagerstack]

One of the motors I received by a fore-mentioned supplier showed it had clearly been dis-assembled.

It's a stock engine...who cares if it was disassembled by a vendor...it came off the boat with factory spec parts, it got put in a box and delivered to you with factory spec parts... As it was mentioned earlier, .001" isn't going to make a monumental difference in performance. If you're concerned with having received used components in a new engine, that's a different story and should be handled with the Vendor instead of pointing ambiguous fingers on the internet..

Sounds to me like you're FOMO'ing hard, and if you want a super special stock engine then you should buy a dozen different jugs and rotating assemblies and put one together yourself.

 

[DPeterson]

My concern is not a performance issue. I chose not to have scuff marks in or on my engine in the case I get torn down. I also chose not to purchase rejected parts so that a certain few secret persons get the top dog measured parts. Still looking for the suppliers that can accommodate my legitimate request.

 

[Grimracer]

https://www.zenoah.com/int/

 

[Mark Anderson]

Would still like to see these rejected parts or hear who the special customers are. Ghosts in the wind. We did buy engines in zenoah boxes from Russ Stark last week. Might try him.

 

[SayMikey]

B H Hanson will sell you a Zenoah in a Zenoah box if you request a Zenoah box

 

[Wasted wages]

Interesting thread.....
But this "select stock" or whatever you want to call it is nothing new. Been going on ever since "stock" motors were required no matter if it's gas, nitro or electric. Take a handful of new motors/engines, they all get torn down and parts are fitted for optimum tolerances. Is it legal? By the way the rules are in both orgs. it sure is. Is it ethical? Maybe... maybe not. Opinions vary. Can it make a difference?? Yup. Saw it myself years ago on a .21 o/b nitro tunnel boat. Watched same day back to back to back testing of a "fitted" stock engine vs. an out of the factory box stock and the "fitted" engine was faster to the tune of 3-4 mph on radar. Every single time. And it's not just boats. An old friend who was a "factory sponsored" r/c car guy told me how they got "stock" stuff the average Joe would never get. Got so bad that the R.O.A.R rules got changed in 2019 to allow claiming of "spec wind" motors. Anyone who thinks fitting a motor/engine to optimum tolerances doesn't produce a better motor/engine is kidding themselves. Competition breeds looking for an edge, any edge and that includes bending and/or exploiting the rules as much as possible. And people wonder why the inspection rules are so complex for the "stock" gas classes.

And that's why I'll no longer run any class requiring "stock" motors.

Carry on folks, just my two cents.................

I can definitely see this with nitro motors...with them the fit and break-in is everything... piston and liner lap in is critical to the performance of the motor...

But not on these gas burners....again, there is a reason they use a ring..because they are inherently built with a piston to wall clearance...all gas motors are built this way due to expansion of the different metals in the engine...if they didn't run a clearance, with a ringed piston, they would sieze up....