State of Affairs for RC Boat Racing

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Wow, my eyes hurt from reading all these posts! There were some interesting ideas.

Here we go....I don't care for most of them.

Natural selection will win out on classes.

Clean up the racing and mill time by calling the fouls....( I urge everyone be willing to learn how to be a turn judge and at one time during the event judge three heats).

I would propose a boat off plane does not have a forward right of way until it is on plane. This will be difficult to judge.

If this post is about growth one topic has been overlooked. At a race is it the number of boats that can promote growth, or is it the number of contestants? I contend the number of contestants will increase the health of our Sport/Hobby. The goal is to not omit someone willing to enter a race with 2 boats when another contestant has entered several. There is only so much pond time for a certain number of boats.

I do not belong to a club with a viable pond for hosting a race. When we do have a worthy site implementing "waves of entries" will be a goal. First wave will have a max of 3 classes entered per racer. A time frame later that limit will be raised. Then raised again if needed until we max out the number of boats and heats. This will allow for classes to have a more equal opportunity for entry exposure, and give every willing participant the opportunity to enter an event.

I'm uncertain a gas / nitro separation needs to be mandated. There are specialty races to accomadate specific preferences.

Respectfully,

MG
 
15 pages. Couldn't read it all. A friend suggested I go read it.

A few thoughts I'd like to share. Maybe you guys have already addressed some of them.

On the class numbers.................

Here's where we screwed up repeatedly with FE in the passed 15 years or so. Every time one of us had a cool idea or found something fun we wanted to add it to the rule book right away. Primary objective was to be able to run it at the nats. Just because electric scale unlimited was cool, fun, fast, high zoot......whatever, didn't mean it needed to be on the books. The reality that we ignored was that there was no demand. A pocket of guys in the great lakes region running scales didn't mean it needed to be a national rule set. Even then the NAMBA rule set is different than the IMPBA rule set for FE. Silly. We could have kept running it as exhibition in both organizations. This is but one example. NAMBA has an ECO class we got from Europe. I've never seen it run at a national event. Ever. So why did we vote it in? That's the "build it they will come mentality" that has produced way too many classes for multiple fuel types. So we collectively need to cut it out. We're spreading ourselves too thin.

Also, the BOD doesn't dictate classes down the memberships throat in either organization. Classes come from the membership. If you feel otherwise then stop whining, kick down the door to the smokey room where you think the rules are written, and make a difference. I did this and found out there was nobody behind the door. Then I proceeded to make the mistakes myself. DOE!

I think Grim mentioned local support. There's a lot too this. This is really the only way to expand our hobby in my opinion. Expand our ranks first. Then racing the way we all know and love it will follow.

Find a pond and set up both practice days and then monthly racing. We have open water twice per week. Choose a short list of classes that are easy to obtain boats for and easy to run. I'm totally bias towards FE but if you go in the local hobby shop, you're not going to find a competitive gas or nitro boat. If you run some sort of limited FE boats that a newbie could buy something off the shelf you have a shot. FE scares the poo out of some fuel guys but remember, car guys already know a thing or two about batteries. They already own chargers and power supplies and in some cases the batteries to hit the water. FE only turns into high level physics when you get into high power classes. Any idiot can do limited classes. No offense. Especially with some of the RTR's out there.

That short list of classes needs to be a given. Pick classes you know you have entries for. Every time you're going to get together the gang needs to know (know!) that these classes will run. Even if you're bored to tears by the classes, you need to support the classes. The experienced guys have to run right along side the newer guys. Teach them every trick you know to get that extra half mph. Heck, I've even built boats for guys free of charge. The fee was, come race with us. Help them with their setups. Trouble shoot. Pit for them. Teach them what they did wrong when they have a driving infraction. I used to give lectures before each race on what I saw driving wise from the previous race. Not sure everyone loved that but they listened. If they break something, give them your spare to keep them turning for their heats.

Try to remember you're planting the race seed. This sounds terrible.........we're making addicts one at a time. hahaha You're trying to get guys first passed their fear of "racing" and second to realize how much stink'n fun it is. We need to show them how to be just as fast as we are. Getting lapped by the veteran fast guy is a drag. Finishing pretty close to him...........addicted. Gimme more of that!

Those easy to run classes are to get guys interested and hopefully hooked but you also need something to keep those same veterans inspired too. What we did was slowly added classes based on popularity. We started with I think just 3 club classes locally. Up to 5 now. It's working. We see three flight of some of those classes. Each race we allowed one extra class. Those guys interested would discuss where or what they wanted to try. So we knew which classes guys were interested in and added those to the signups. The extra class with the most signups ran. If a class fielded heats for a whole summer we would vote to add it to our list. There's no point in offering classes that can't field heats. There is even less point in encouraging people to build boats that will not be able to field a heat. If you loop back around to the whole "too many classes in the book" thinking it applies locally to. If I encourage a guy to build an FE 1/8 scale, I've done him a disservice. Now he owns a really expensive boat that he can't race locally (cuz nobody races those) and he can't race nationally (cuz nobody races those). For what an FE scale costs he could have had a fleet of limited boats and race 4 or 5 classes at any event. 15 to 20 heats per event for him or 4 heats a year for a scale at maybe the MIchigan Cup? Which one is going to keep him interested? T mono, T cat, T rigger. All super cool. All super fast. Super never going to get to race the danged things. This has to happen in fuel too. Guy builds a nitro tunnel when there are none locally. He has to travel for a grand to race it one time per year. Good plan. Addicted? Not likely.

The other piece of the local puzzle that has taken me years to get a handle on is enthusiasm. I eluded to this above. I like to race, I like to win, but is that all this hobby is? Win win win win! These boats are a form of stress relief for most of us. Winning is a bonus but isn't getting together with like minded hobbyist looking to blow off some steam a much bigger deal? I used to get all nasty and pissy if I didn't win a heat. Some of you have seen my stupidity firsthand. It's taken me years to grow up. That's not going to make people want to come play with us. If you show people how much fun you're having..............that's totally infectious. We've had guys show up to just watch our racing that have later commented "you guys look like you're having so much fun". Yeah.........we are. Out members disagree on politics and all kinds of daily things. But on the pond..............just model boaters laughing, enjoying each others company, and having a great time.

This approach has produced club racers that now own 5 or 6 boats each. Most are way more addicted than that. Some of those club boats fit more than one class. Classes we don't even run. Those guys are now at the stage where their starting to wonder...............................how do you think we stack up against racers elsewhere? They're starting to travel with us. We went to Atlanta last spring and ran 14 entries out of one canopy. So fun. At this point a few of us are hitting 14 events this coming season. FE events, mixed events, time trials. Holy crap that's a lot of racing. It's December and I'm already chomping at the bit to go racing.

If any of us wants to know how to really save racing..............look in the mirror. I had to. We're slowly crawling out of the primordial ooz here in MI.
 
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Terry I read every word you wrote. I'm not a racer but I have been running nitro boats on and off for about 45years. I'm a NAMBA member but don't race just supporting the sport. I have thought about racing but reading some of the issues with attitudes at events has stopped me from. I'm working on getting my new neighbor into the sport. I have a chance to get a wrecked Blackbird G1 that needed new rear sponsons. Wanted to get it repaired to give to my neighbor but when I asked for help from some boaters on the site that have knowledge of this rigger and got a deaf ear with no reply so that just support my belief that those people are above me and don't want to expand the membership. Maybe I was asking to much for a paper trace I even offered to buy new cuts outs. Still no reply. So this is why we the little people don't join the racing ranks.

Ron. PS not you Chris
 
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I could be wrong but I think that the electric and gas guys tend to be more on line present. Maybe there are just more electric and gas guys overall. I don't know squat about nitro. People ask me and I'm like a deer in the headlights. As a director I should have learned but we were the only NAMBA club in D2 and the only NAMBA races to attend were ours. We were all FE so I never learned.

Ron, is there a local club near you? Sometimes getting out to see someone face to face helps. Many try to watch the forums but not everyone does. Especially with there being so many of them. I've sent guys messages through IW private messaging before and not heard back for months. In some cases never. I try to be as approachable at our local puddle as possible. Sometimes I look busy and guys don't want to approach me. Any time I get to talk about boats I'm all in. I hope that guys at other sites feel that way too. This is the kind of enthusiasm I was talking about. If you're not approachable, how is anyone going to take interest in our hobby?

Try not to get discouraged. On-line responses aren't really a good indication of what boaters are. Text versus talking......lost in translation. All that rot. If you've been kicking around the hobby for that long you likely know that.
 
​Just to do something proactive to promote the hobby another UNW club member and I rented space at a couple of car shows. One at the Western Washington Fairgrounds and another in Edmonds. Keeping in mind most of the people there were gearheads like us we fired up some nitro boats from time to time and were literally on our feet talking to people the entire day. A couple showed up at our races and I have been talking to a couple of others who are building boats. Doing something beats the hell out of sitting around complaining.

I have a couple of photos but the darn things are somehow getting rotated when I upload them
 
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​Just to do something proactive to promote the hobby another UNW club member and I rented space at a couple of car shows. One at the Western Washington Fairgrounds and another in Edmonds. Keeping in mind most of the people there were gearheads like us we fired up some nitro boats from time to time and were literally on our feet talking to people the entire day. A couple showed up at our races and I have been talking to a couple of others who are building boats. Doing something beats the hell out of sitting around complaining.

I have a couple of photos but the darn things are somehow getting rotated when I upload them
+10 Mike!

Lots of good points on these 15 pages... I only read 10% of them however.

Lots of clubs out there. Want you try something different? Just do it! Then report on the results!
 
Hi Marty Davis,

I do agree with the "too many classes" issue. Events with 6 classes and entrants limited to one or two boats could have merit.

Maybe you know I have been talking with our District director , David Horsely, for the past year about putting on races in our district with just a few (6 to 8) of the most popular classes and combinations of popular classes?

Racing competition would get much better because guys would concentrate their resources (time and money).

For those in the "Cost too high" camp.

I have been hearing the "COST too HIGH" excuse for many years. That is just not it.

We have already offered a class for the cheap $300 RTR boats from China. That's a Booming success, right? NOT!

In my 40 years of r/c boating I have seen many boaters leave r/c and get involved in much more expensive activities.

Seems like Mud bogging is getting more popular and draws the young guys too!

Maybe because Mud bogging engines and tires are cheaper than r/c boat engines and props? And maybe earth moving equipment costs less than retrieve boats?

Or maybe Mud boggers don't travel and use motel rooms?

Surely they don't need trailers to haul their "TOYS" to the event!

Maybe clean up and maintenance is easier?

 
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And while your argument has serious merit, Andy, one thing you have to remember is that most of the higher priced hobbies people are going to, such as "mud bogging" are normally things they can get into by buying a "turn key" rig and then go play. There isn't a lot of things they have to take just to fire up a mud bogger nor do they need to take a bunch of stuff to keep playing like we do with our boats. You also won't see someone show up with several boggers in a trailer when you show up with just one. One last point and then I'll shut up. If someone can afford something like a mud bogger, the costs of trailers, hotels, food and such isn't going to be as big of deal as someone who spends the money to get a hotel room, travels for several hours and shows up at a boat race with a RTR electric with the "bare bones pit equipment and low cost packs that then gets told they are only going to run for two or three heats and then learn that those will probably be against racers that show up with several boats with spare motors, top dollar battery packs and top of the line chargers. Under that kind of situation, I probably wouldn't stay in the hobby either
 
Andy, David said he is looking at putting on one day races
Yes, Andy! That is what David and I have been talking about. One day races with 6 or 8 classes, both gas and nitro. We talked about a four race series with all of the races located around central Fla so that most everyone in Fla could make the trip in 4 hrs or less.

It would cut down costs for both the contestants and the clubs and provide larger fields of entries for each class. More money per class for the club and more competition in each class for the racers.
 
Hi Marty Davis,

I do agree with the "too many classes" issue. Events with 6 classes and entrants limited to one or two boats could have merit.

Maybe you know I have been talking with our District director , David Horsely, for the past year about putting on races in our district with just a few (6 to 8) of the most popular classes and combinations of popular classes?

Racing competition would get much better because guys would concentrate their resources (time and money).

For those in the "Cost too high" camp.

I have been hearing the "COST too HIGH" excuse for many years. That is just not it.

We have already offered a class for the cheap $300 RTR boats from China. That's a Booming success, right? NOT!

In my 40 years of r/c boating I have seen many boaters leave r/c and get involved in much more expensive activities.

Seems like Mud bogging is getting more popular and draws the young guys too!

Maybe because Mud bogging engines and tires are cheaper than r/c boat engines and props? And maybe earth moving equipment costs less than retrieve boats?

Or maybe Mud boggers don't travel and use motel rooms?

Surely they don't need trailers to haul their "TOYS" to the event!

Maybe clean up and maintenance is easier?

Most people leave the hobbie because of the BS that comes with it. So your solution is to only have 6-8 most popular classes only run ???

Sorry to say that won't work because then your leaving all the others that have boats that don't fall between those 6-8 out and dry. That's not right.

You know why mud bogging is fun because you can get in it and have fun. You can't get in a RC boat come on let's use common sense.
 
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Hi Marty Davis,

I do agree with the "too many classes" issue. Events with 6 classes and entrants limited to one or two boats could have merit.

Maybe you know I have been talking with our District director , David Horsely, for the past year about putting on races in our district with just a few (6 to 8) of the most popular classes and combinations of popular classes?

Racing competition would get much better because guys would concentrate their resources (time and money).

For those in the "Cost too high" camp.

I have been hearing the "COST too HIGH" excuse for many years. That is just not it.

We have already offered a class for the cheap $300 RTR boats from China. That's a Booming success, right? NOT!

In my 40 years of r/c boating I have seen many boaters leave r/c and get involved in much more expensive activities.

Seems like Mud bogging is getting more popular and draws the young guys too!

Maybe because Mud bogging engines and tires are cheaper than r/c boat engines and props? And maybe earth moving equipment costs less than retrieve boats?

Or maybe Mud boggers don't travel and use motel rooms?

Surely they don't need trailers to haul their "TOYS" to the event!

Maybe clean up and maintenance is easier?


"Sorry to say that won't work because then your leaving all the others that have boats that don't fall between those 6-8 out and dry. That's not right."

Hi Julian,

This is not an organizational mandate. It is a concept for clubs to offer apart from the races that offer every class.

The Outboard tunnel boat racers put on great events just for Outboard Tunnel boats. They have great attendance and great competition.

Inboard racers do not feel put out about this.

If a class has difficulty generating 3 or 4 boats then the racers that like to race that class should get out and promote the class. These tiny classes are killing it for everyone.

Racers who can only afford to run 1 or 2 classes have to sit around all day just to run a couple of times. And clubs have to buy awards and set up heats for a class that generates little money. Not to mention, some races are 3 or 4 days long just to accommodate the large number of classes.
 
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I have lost my desire for boating because we live in what a lot of people call the hot spot for rc boating, yet we can't hold a race between the months of march and October. I cannot afford to travel and get a motel room for a hobby. What happened to the one day races? Seems to me that most only care for the BIG races and not the club races anymore.
 
set up a round robin race format between three or four clubs and travel between their race sites, collect points for a end of season trophy or a six pack and bragging rights. just keep it simple and fun. might just try 3-4 classes and go from there.
 
I have lost my desire for boating because we live in what a lot of people call the hot spot for rc boating, yet we can't hold a race between the months of march and October. I cannot afford to travel and get a motel room for a hobby. What happened to the one day races? Seems to me that most only care for the BIG races and not the club races anymore.
EXACTLY !!!

Granted, after 12 years-

I'm still a relative newbie in the scheme of things as far as Tunnel Racers go in my area. There is a VERY long rich history of names too long to list from D3 that has set the bar for the rest of us to follow for years to come, yet somehow- again just my .02 , it seems to be failing. Others that are current and can afford to travel well argue otherwise, I get it.

I made my bed several years ago , trying my best to do what I thought at the time, would take the load off the guys that got us where we where- and grow it from my point of view with what as a group , at the time seemed right. We , and I say that between the guys that feel the same as myself, need to further an effort to re-gain 1 day races and some fun runs , with the core group that will be here 10 years from now to carry on what the guys that deserve to sit back and enjoy the fruits of their efforts started, unfortunately - again IMHO - there has been no transition period thats agreeable - and that ladies - is where the problem lies.....
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People who race only make up a small section of the boating hobby, I have seen a lot of people worry about something not being impba legal vs helping a person out. For example on a forum someone asked if a certain motor would work good in a cracker box. One of the first comments was, that is not impba legal. Person never even mentioned that they where going to race, sometimes it seems sport boaters are not in the same group of people.
 
People who race only make up a small section of the boating hobby, I have seen a lot of people worry about something not being impba legal vs helping a person out. For example on a forum someone asked if a certain motor would work good in a cracker box. One of the first comments was, that is not impba legal. Person never even mentioned that they where going to race, sometimes it seems sport boaters are not in the same group of people.
That's because they where given a realistic answer, most people want to race there friends, and then It grows from there, so instead of them wasting time and money, and a cd telling them they can't race because of a wrong motor now they have several more options.
 
I have lost my desire for boating because we live in what a lot of people call the hot spot for rc boating, yet we can't hold a race between the months of march and October. I cannot afford to travel and get a motel room for a hobby. What happened to the one day races? Seems to me that most only care for the BIG races and not the club races anymore.
Well the travel cost is the same for a one day or a two day . It takes the same amount of effort for the club to put on a one day or a two day . The cost difference is one night in a hotel or drive home and back again . Not every schedule works for everyone and it never will . Choices have to be made by the individual to make the decision to race or not to race .Nitro race coming up in January ....see you there !
 
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