So where do we go now?

[Hydro Junkie]

RC is a beloved hobby many of us have been doing for over a quarter of a century. Unless you have been living under a rock, you know that the industry itself has been on the decline. Major changes in consumer tastes and the way the industry itself is run has taken a bite out of the market. This topic is brought up occasionally and everyone helps identify problem areas and offer well intended solutions. But is the decline unique to nitro boat racing or RC in general? The simple answer is no. [/size]

If you are in the motorcycle industry you too are seeing a dip in sales. Why you might ask? Because bike consumers are getting older, dying off and many of generations Z’s population ( born between 1995-2012) feel motorcycles are far too dangerous and have no interest. It is a real problem for manufacturers who are scrambling to meet the needs of women and minority bikers in the hopes of regaining market share.

No, it's not that. can we dispense with the "snowflake" nonsense? Motorcycle sales are declining because- in this country- the vast majority of sales have been to Boomers buying $20-40,000 Harleys and Indians (Harley alone has had about 50% marketshare for years.) They're aging out of the market, and bike sales are going with them. Complain about "millennials" and "gen Z" all you want, but in the US bikes are toys. Hardly anyone uses them for daily transportation like you would see in India and Southeast Asia. That's why we don't get many cheap bikes here. you think younger people have thousands of dollars they can just blow on a toy? I just bought an FZ-09 this year, and after taxes and fees the bottom line was over $10,000. That's the price of a fair-to-middlin' used car, which is what someone is going to buy if they need transportation.

the up and coming generations are going to be worse off than us in terms of job prospects and financial stability. They're not getting a smoking hot post-war economy handed to them.

Okay, my question is what makes someone "qualified"?

I went to an event a while back and those running it seemed to not want anyone to know the what or why of what they were doing. You would think they would want others to learn so that they could step down and just enjoy the event the next time around or just be able to give advice or answer a few questions rather than having to run it due to no one else knowing how

every hobby has "those people" who think they own the hobby and can dictate who's allowed to participate and how they have to do things.

And that, in a nutshell, is why I asked what makes someone "qualified"?

I've been involved setting up events in other activities, dealt with people from all over the country in setting up some of them, hired entertainers from almost every part of the country in the process. You would think I would have some "idea" as to what it takes to set up a boat race with that much experience

 

[dwilfong]

"Think thy own the hobby".........LOL

Now you hit the nail on the head.....................

 

[CokeaColaGuy]

Hydro Junky, this is Jim P. I am the new registrar for UNW . My responsibility will include running all the races this year. I would love to have your help, it is a lot of work and commitment and welcome to shear my knowledge with anyone willing to help out please contact me .

 

[Hydro Junkie]

Jim, you have a PM

 

[Jeff Lutz]

I agree with some discussed in this thread, but believe there are some other factors not being mentioned. It’s not all about phones and society changing. If you go to a atv ride park you will see many kids/teens four wheeling in the mud on expensive equipment, outdoor fun to say the least. The product not being easily available does hurt. Especially for nitro. The few boat builders that build nitro boats have long waiting lists. Jae and zippkits and others have helped a lot and show that we could use more builders. Good used nitro boats sell very quick on this site. I grew up in this hobby and have taking on other hobbies throughout life, but always return to this hobby. It is fun.

 

[David Bryant]

but always return to this hobby. It is fun.

I agree

 

[Jeffmaturo]

RC is a beloved hobby many of us have been doing for over a quarter of a century. Unless you have been living under a rock, you know that the industry itself has been on the decline. Major changes in consumer tastes and the way the industry itself is run has taken a bite out of the market. This topic is brought up occasionally and everyone helps identify problem areas and offer well intended solutions. But is the decline unique to nitro boat racing or RC in general? The simple answer is no. [/size]

If you are in the motorcycle industry you too are seeing a dip in sales. Why you might ask? Because bike consumers are getting older, dying off and many of generations Z’s population ( born between 1995-2012) feel motorcycles are far too dangerous and have no interest. It is a real problem for manufacturers who are scrambling to meet the needs of women and minority bikers in the hopes of regaining market share.

No, it's not that. can we dispense with the "snowflake" nonsense? Motorcycle sales are declining because- in this country- the vast majority of sales have been to Boomers buying $20-40,000 Harleys and Indians (Harley alone has had about 50% marketshare for years.) They're aging out of the market, and bike sales are going with them. Complain about "millennials" and "gen Z" all you want, but in the US bikes are toys. Hardly anyone uses them for daily transportation like you would see in India and Southeast Asia. That's why we don't get many cheap bikes here. you think younger people have thousands of dollars they can just blow on a toy? I just bought an FZ-09 this year, and after taxes and fees the bottom line was over $10,000. That's the price of a fair-to-middlin' used car, which is what someone is going to buy if they need transportation.

the up and coming generations are going to be worse off than us in terms of job prospects and financial stability. They're not getting a smoking hot post-war economy handed to them.

You can call it anything you wish, but the baby boomers are aging out of the equation. Yes, times are different, many millennials live at home with their parents because they can not afford a home. As for the motorcycle industry, understanding that motorcycling adventures contribute to their lifestyle of community experiences that includes music, craft beer and artisan coffee… their lifestyle is not centered around the motorcycle, but encompasses the ‘experiences’ a motorcycle creates.” Unlike my generation that did not have as many distractions, and created a ton of gear heads that liked to tinker, build and create.

I agree with some discussed in this thread, but believe there are some other factors not being mentioned. It’s not all about phones and society changing. If you go to a atv ride park you will see many kids/teens four wheeling in the mud on expensive equipment, outdoor fun to say the least. The product not being easily available does hurt. Especially for nitro. The few boat builders that build nitro boats have long waiting lists. Jae and zippkits and others have helped a lot and show that we could use more builders. Good used nitro boats sell very quick on this site. I grew up in this hobby and have taking on other hobbies throughout life, but always return to this hobby. It is fun.

Jeff you are correct. Having an easy way to get into the hobby (like RTR FE boats) are one of the bright spots on the horizon for our sport. Getting someone lakeside, letting them try a boat is a great way to set the hook. It worked for me, I never leave the lake without a smile on my face!

 

[John Finch]

I got to thinking about this last night and realized in District 12 nitro is fading away but gas boats have increased to more than make up for the decrease in nitro powered boats. Some of us have switched to gas and electric but we have also gained some gear heads that are running gas because they are familiar with the lawn and garden variety of power. We had district races where the boats entered were about 75 for what we considered a big race back in the late 70s and 80s. Today we can get over 100 boats entered. Add in some electric boats and the count is pretty good. So, boat count is up compared to 40 years ago. We need to accept that gas and electric power are taking over as far as power plants but the boats and racing is still there for us. So with that said I cannot say the hobby is dying, just changing mode of power plants. Yes we are aging and dying off every day because the majority of us are well aged but that is the cycle of life. At 67 years old and 50 years of racing behind me I can only say enjoy your friends who share the same interests and the younger crowd will either follow or make their own world.

 

[Mike Cathey]

Okay, my question is what makes someone "qualified"?

I went to an event a while back and those running it seemed to not want anyone to know the what or why of what they were doing. You would think they would want others to learn so that they could step down and just enjoy the event the next time around or just be able to give advice or answer a few questions rather than having to run it due to no one else knowing how

Not speaking to you in particular but the first place to get knowledge would be a clubs rulebook. How a race is to be conducted is quite specific along with other topics that deal with infractions, registrations, driver conduct, points, ect . In RCU and UNW where I see you coming to race the rulebooks really leave little leeway except for some format options that are the sponsors choice. Another area of knowledge to be gained is volunteering to judge turns a lot and see how the interaction between the person calling the race and the turn judges and how they communicate. Also, ask very experienced guys to coach you. That can get people up to speed faster on what's important information to pass to a driver and what is unimportant. Nobody wants a coach that doesn't know what to do. You can wreck your boat and somebody else's in heartbeat if the coach isn't passing on info you have to know. I often direct people to go up on the stand and eavesdrop on an experienced driver and coach to see how it's done. Different people want different info. I know I want to be reminded of dead boats and the exact location every lap.

One thing that I don't think some people may appreciate is how much of a juggling act it is to both conduct the race and to compete in the race, especially if you are having boat problems. So if CD's can be somewhat distracted it is usually not because they are being secretive but a little overwhelmed. Most probably won't get this until you've been there.

Like most functions, if you want to help , you have to show up early to set up and stay late to tear down. I guarantee you there are things to do and we need the help at every race. Sticking an oar in to help with that is always appreciated, gets noticed and will definitely open doors. You are always welcome at UNW.

 

[Timbo Whalen]

"Anything that requires someone to put down their phone for more than 5 min. is not going to be a popular past time."

BOOM!! That says it all right there. And it's affecting anything that requires even a minimal physical effort, not just us.

cellphone.jpg

Another BOOM!

 

[Jarcaines]

As a relatively young person (at least in RC boating terms), I have to say there is a huge misunderstanding by boomers as to why young people are leaving expensive hobbies behind. It's not our "short attention spans" or our "iphone culture", it's that these hobbies take a huge commitment of both time and money. As others have pointed out above, the economy that we are inheriting from the baby-boomers is not the one they inherited from their parents. We have to work more hours for money that goes much less further.

On top of that it takes a lot of time, and culture has shifted (I say for the better) to being more WHOLE family oriented (father included). I grew up with model boats. I loved every second of it, but it was my dad, brother and I. My mom and my sister were left out. My sister has a very different view of our childhood and my dad's involvement with it then I do for the obvious reason that my interests were the same as his and her's were not. Now with a family of my own I am thinking about trying to get back into RC boats, but the rest of my family is not that interested. I have limited time and resources to spend, and dedicating them to something my wife and kids aren't going to enjoy seems like a waste to me. Al made a great point about getting families involved. It all starts with that. Young people value family, despite what some old grouchy people might think of "kids these days", these things are important to us, and if we can make RC racing about spending time together with family, you will get their attention.

Gone are the days of men checking out and leaving "the kids" to "the wife". I don't see this as a bad thing, the sport just has to adapt to keep up with it.

 

[Jarcaines]

...Also, the web presence for RC boat racing is pretty pathetic. Both the NAMBA and IMPBA sites are seriously lacking in interesting, up to date content. It's insanely hard to find good hulls and equipment online. If you are selling goods or running a club, at the very least create a Facebook page for it.

 

[JimZaremski]

As a relatively young person (at least in RC boating terms), I have to say there is a huge misunderstanding by boomers as to why young people are leaving expensive hobbies behind. It's not our "short attention spans" or our "iphone culture", it's that these hobbies take a huge commitment of both time and money. As others have pointed out above, the economy that we are inheriting from the baby-boomers is not the one they inherited from their parents. We have to work more hours for money that goes much less further.

can't agree more. people love to fall back on lazy, easy excuses like the time-worn "kids these days" BS, but reality is a lot more complicated.

R/C boating is suffering the same difficulties as most forms of racing. Back in the early days, stuff wasn't very advanced and people could try a bunch of different things to try to win. But by now, the winning formula has been found and you basically need to spend a bunch of money just to have a hope of being competitive. If you want to have a chance in 1/8 Scale, you'd better be ready to spend a couple grand on CMB engines. I have the luxury of being able to spend that money. a lot of people don't.

just like the full-size Unlimiteds. Back in the '50s and '60s, you could get a surplus Allison for a few hundred bucks and build a hull you though might work. Now, thanks to modern tools like CFD the "winning formula" looks exactly like the T4-T6 hull everybody runs. Once that happens, it's an arms race over who can spend the most money to cherry-pick the best hardware available. The low-hanging fruit was picked decades ago.

and yes, your comment on the websites is spot on. They're set up for the people who have been immersed in this hobby for years. There's nothing on the IMPBA site which would show a n00b what R/C boat racing is about.

 

[Hydro Junkie]

Okay, I just have to respond to some of the posts I've seen since I asked what makes someone qualified to help run an event:

Jim Z: I was almost surprised to see your comment about some "owning the hobby". I can't help but agree completely as I've run into people that seem to think that way.

Jim Putich: Not sure if you knew or not but I do race with R/CU. Haven't made many races in the past couple of years but I would love to come race with you guys as scheduling allows this upcoming season. Last season I tried twice to race, both times had to bag it due to boat or radio issues. Spent my time at the pond corner judging. I figure it wasn't a wasted trip that way

Jeff Lutz: Couldn't agree more

John F: I know we have disagreed on some things in the past but I really liked your post 28. I've tried to express the same thing in another hobby the wife and I have, only to run into deaf ears. As you said, times are changing and we need to change with it

Mike: Very true on your post. I've learned considerably more from Roger Newton, Ron Erickson, John Earnest, Kirk Maupin and the Olson brothers about building and running boats than I have from any other source. Turn judging has shown me a lot of what NOT to do while racing by watching what others are doing, be it right or wrong. As far as those running a big event goes, if they are that overwhelmed, what's stopping them from asking for help to run the heats and such? I'm sure others would be willing to step in and help out, just like they do at the UNW and R/CU races.

Jarcaines: It's nice to get input from one of the "younger" generation. As many have already said in the previous posts, times have changed, as have the dynamics of family and how time is spent. While your situation is far from unique, There are those that can't put down the phone or walk away from the computer monitor. I have a brother that falls into the last group and friends in the former so I am well aware that those are influences as well. I'm also well aware of the fact that many are actually addicted to media but that's a topic for another place and time. I'm sure many would agree with me that we would love to meet you and the family in the future at "the pond".

 

[Jarcaines]

I might have sold the young thing a bit too heavy. I am actually too old to really be considered a milinial. Solidly genX here.

Anyway, thanks for the comments. Ill be trying to make a few Distirct 8 races this year with my brother, if things go as planned. Cant wait!

 

[Jarcaines]

Also, as an example of what I mean about family involvement, full size boat racing has been suffering lately too, but the Hydroplane Museums J-Stock build and run program seems to be a pretty big success. Its easier to invest your time, money, and energy into something that is enjoyable for the whole family.

 

[JimZaremski]

Okay, I just have to respond to some of the posts I've seen since I asked what makes someone qualified to help run an event:

Jim Z: I was almost surprised to see your comment about some "owning the hobby". I can't help but agree completely as I've run into people that seem to think that way.

let me be clear- I think that is a problem in individual clubs, not R/C boating in general.

Honestly, I've gone through a few low points over the past several years where I didn't feel I belonged and wasn't the friendliest or most approachable. More than once I wanted to just toss all the boats in the trash and go do something else. But being in good clubs like the Transom Twisters and Oakland Wolverines has reset me. I've received tons of advice from Jerry and Mike Betke, Joe Wiebelhaus, Garl Clement, Bert Dygert, Tom Kelly, and Karl Chase. I've long been a nervous wreck trying to race against people who have been doing it for decades, but thanks to those guys I'm no longer afraid. but the fact still remains we're out there flying $1,000 toys and none of us want to be "that guy" who wrecks other people's boats.

if you want to maintain or grow this hobby, you have to be willing to coach, and put up with newbies who will make mistakes. newbies will make mistakes. they might run into your boat. if you rip them a new one because they did so, they'll want nothing to do with the hobby.

 

[Hydro Junkie]

Okay, I just have to respond to some of the posts I've seen since I asked what makes someone qualified to help run an event:

Jim Z: I was almost surprised to see your comment about some "owning the hobby". I can't help but agree completely as I've run into people that seem to think that way.

let me be clear- I think that is a problem in individual clubs, not R/C boating in general.

I know what you meant, and I still agree with you. The sad part is it only takes one or two in a club to ruin it for everyone else. I just about quit boating a few years ago because of one person outside my area and a few inside. I quit building, only went to the bare minimum amount of races and totally re-evaluated what I wanted to do with my free time. It's taken me a while to get back to building but I don't feel the need to rush a build like I used to. I found that I now spend more time researching the boat I'm working on than actual construction. I guess that's what happens, I decided I want to be someone that builds scale boats, not boats that are "stand off" scale

 

[Michael Costanzo]

As a relatively young person (at least in RC boating terms), I have to say there is a huge misunderstanding by boomers as to why young people are leaving expensive hobbies behind. It's not our "short attention spans" or our "iphone culture", it's that these hobbies take a huge commitment of both time and money. As others have pointed out above, the economy that we are inheriting from the baby-boomers is not the one they inherited from their parents. We have to work more hours for money that goes much less further.

On top of that it takes a lot of time, and culture has shifted (I say for the better) to being more WHOLE family oriented (father included). I grew up with model boats. I loved every second of it, but it was my dad, brother and I. My mom and my sister were left out. My sister has a very different view of our childhood and my dad's involvement with it then I do for the obvious reason that my interests were the same as his and her's were not. Now with a family of my own I am thinking about trying to get back into RC boats, but the rest of my family is not that interested. I have limited time and resources to spend, and dedicating them to something my wife and kids aren't going to enjoy seems like a waste to me. Al made a great point about getting families involved. It all starts with that. Young people value family, despite what some old grouchy people might think of "kids these days", these things are important to us, and if we can make RC racing about spending time together with family, you will get their attention.

Gone are the days of men checking out and leaving "the kids" to "the wife". I don't see this as a bad thing, the sport just has to adapt to keep up with it.

you seriously need a reality check.you have no clue as to what it is to work long ours.i work 14 hour days 6 days a week. i am 51 years old and have been a truck driver for over 28 years with over 3 million miles under my belt! i have been working since i was 14 years old and never had anything handed to me like this younger generation has handed to them! i am working much longer hours for less money than i ever have.if you see what i pay a week in taxes,most people in my town don't even gross! you don't have to spend a crap load of $$ to get into this hobby and have some fun.yes i will agree with you that you have to spend a lot of time and be dedicated to be successful, but that is with most hobbies.i am a long time drag racer and if you think this hobby is expensive and time consuming,r/c does not even come close,hell i blow up a motor in my 90 rigger or mono i have a spare $700 motor in the pit box.i blew up my motor 2 seasons ago in my drag car and it was $10,000 and i sat out a hole 14 months to save up for the parts,and that with me doing the labor re building the engine and re installing it.would love to have a spare $32,000 engine sitting in my trailer(maybe if i hit the lotto), the bottom line is 99% on the newer generation is not interested in most of the stuff the the guy's in my age group did as kids and now as adult's,that just the cold hard truth! things go in cycle's and this is true with our boating hobby.you can lead the horse to the water,and you know the rest.

 

[brad nichols]

I just like to go out for the fellowship and social aspect of it and do some racing!! If I win a heat or 2 so be it and it just makes it a better day. Like Al told me I build fast boats but I need to learn to drive better, which is very true!! But I am out to have fun!! Some people take it way to seriously and that what ruins it for new people and turns them away. Money is always a have or have not thing. Those with lots of it are sometimes too serious, but then again there are some who may have millions and are just like normal people and have a great time. Winning a lottery would be a great thing for everybody but some people wouldn't be any happier!! Life is what you make it!

Brad