Outboard rules and class ideas needed

[Bob Kensill]

Here is what I see as a possible direction for IMPBA outboard racing.

1. Superstock B and D

2. Mod VP B and D

3. Sport Kneeler B and D

4. P Spec

These will need a lot more discussion. Feel free to put your ideas on here, email me([email protected]) or call me (260) 409-0618

Bob Kensill

 

[moparbarn]

Bob, go to our club's site. capitol model boaters in d-12. look how we have combined a "p spec" class with b tunnel. works well for us. makes a GOOD .21 boat. full p makes a better .45 size than a .21 hull......

 

[RonShaw]

Bob,

This would be a great time to make the LSG Gas Tunnel an official class as well, way before D ModVP and D Kneeler. B sized hulls have those classes already covered.

This would match what has been popular at the WTC:

D Super-stock Tunnel (leave B Sport Tunnel as-is or match NAMBA Rules only if the rules require the clubs that run the class to tear-down and verify stock on all boats receiving awards)

B Sport Kneeler

B ModVp

P Spec FE

LSG Gas Tunnel

Basically 5 specialty tunnel classes will become official classes. These have all been well received at past races.

 

[Bob Kensill]

Ron

My bad, I meant to put LSG on the list.

 

[HTV Boats]

Bob,

This would be a great time to make the LSG Gas Tunnel an official class as well, way before D ModVP and D Kneeler. B sized hulls have those classes already covered.

This would match what has been popular at the WTC:

D Super-stock Tunnel (leave B Sport Tunnel as-is or match NAMBA Rules only if the rules require the clubs that run the class to tear-down and verify stock on all boats receiving awards)

B Sport Kneeler

B ModVp

P Spec FE

LSG Gas Tunnel

Basically 5 specialty tunnel classes will become official classes. These have all been well received at past races.

I agree with Ron here. The present B Sport is working well and should be used as a guide for Mod-VP and Kneelers. Going to D motors in either of these right now will water down 40 tunnels with too many choices and could hurt the class. Sport or Superstock D is working and Gas definitions are overdue with larger than 27cc motors becoming popular. FE P limited would give continuity and take it away from local rules which confuse other areas and possibly keep guys from building.

As Don stated be careful in making rules that are not going to be easily defined or enforced. A bone stock rule would mean teardowns that just are not going to happen beyond record trials and Internat events.

Mic

 

[lohring]

Don't be afraid os stock engine rules. Yes, it will require inspection. NAMBA has been inspecting all the trophy winners at their nationals as long as I have been a member. Several well known national champions were disqualified over the years. The system works and isn't particularly difficult to implement. Even with displacement only rules, you need to check bore and stroke. This was true with the K&B 48 (.875 bore) sleeves in the past and gas cylinders and crankshafts today.

Lohring Miller

 

[Grimracer]

Loring.. we understand the nats part.. what about local or district races.. Thats when this gets UgLy!

Grim

 

[Darin Jordan]

1- Define what an "outboard" really is and update the specifications on what is and is not allowed.

2- Officially add P-Limited Tunnel,

Just for the record, NAMBA already has OPC rules for the following FE power classes:

P-Limited
(Up to 4S, Limited power systems... equivalent to 3.5)
P
(Up to 4S, Open power systems... equivalent to 7.5)
Open
(5S-10S, Open power systems)
I can't imagine needing more tunnel classes than that. It covers the available hull sizes, with the exception of really smaller tunnels (< 27"), and provides a "spec" level, an up to 4S "open" level, and an up to 10S "open" level.

We also updated the definitions of what an FE "outboard" is, which was essentially based on the NAMBA Nitro OPC rules. Should be in the current rules.

It's all pretty clear. I don't really see any need at all for NAMBA to update any OPC rules, at least regarding FE. They are already there. Just need people to start building them. Currently, it's rare to see anything other than P-Limited boats.

 

[RonShaw]

1- Define what an "outboard" really is and update the specifications on what is and is not allowed.

2- Officially add P-Limited Tunnel,

Just for the record, NAMBA already has OPC rules for the following FE power classes:

P-Limited
(Up to 4S, Limited power systems... equivalent to 3.5)
P
(Up to 4S, Open power systems... equivalent to 7.5)
Open
(5S-10S, Open power systems)
I can't imagine needing more tunnel classes than that. It covers the available hull sizes, with the exception of really smaller tunnels (< 27"), and provides a "spec" level, an up to 4S "open" level, and an up to 10S "open" level.

We also updated the definitions of what an FE "outboard" is, which was essentially based on the NAMBA Nitro OPC rules. Should be in the current rules.

It's all pretty clear. I don't really see any need at all for NAMBA to update any OPC rules, at least regarding FE. They are already there. Just need people to start building them. Currently, it's rare to see anything other than P-Limited boats.

Darin,

My reason for that comment also regards James Beasley's note earlier. NAMBA and IMPBA need to define Outboard once and for all. I never thought the term Outboard in reference to all of the OB Classes, needed to be defined, but after seeing some of the one-off setups since my return to the hobby two years ago, there definitely needs to be clarification for the engine/lowers, and the hulls. NAMBA's definition in reference to the Full Scale OPC Class does a better job than the IMPBA, but the lack of OB definitions has still left an area where others have "pushed the limits" on the lack of this definition. James's reference to "mass production of at least 100 units", addresses one of the three areas, the lower. There should also be clarification on how and where the OB engine/lower is mounted. Yes, the OB FE NAMBA OPC Rules themselves are great, but the lack of definition of what an OB Hull/transom or engine/lower truly are, still leaves room for further "pushing the limits" in the FE classes as well. I will work with Bob Kinsel so hopefully we both can make presentations to the IMPBA and NAMBA, to get an "OB clarification addendum" added to both organization's rule books.

 

[Bob Kensill]

In defining an outboard motor, please read my ideas.

An outboard motor shall be defined as a complete drive system. It will have a power head, either electric , nitro or gasoline powered. It will have a lower unit, including the mounting system and a propeller.

The power head will be defined by IMPBA class rules.

The mounting system shall attach the outboard to the transom of the boat. The intent is to make the transom as near as possible to 90 degrees to the to the bottom of the boat.

The propeller shall propel the boat by direct contact with the water only.

Feel free to comment or add your ideas.

 

[Kris Flynn]

Outboards SHALL be covered with a scale looking cowling?

 

[j whiddon]

If you are going to make production lowers the only legal ones you have to include power heads also. When did this become a true scale class . And to try and make someone's boat illegal that meets current rules is not advancing the hobby. I like the innovation some have used with their drives . Ron it's no secret that you want Ottos boat deemed illegal but get over it and try to beat him at the pond not in the rule book

 

[Mark Poole ModVP]

How about this for one of the things that "define an outboard". Put a limit on the distance that the drive dog can be aft of the powerhead.

 

[RonShaw]

If you are going to make production lowers the only legal ones you have to include power heads also. When did this become a true scale class . And to try and make someone's boat illegal that meets current rules is not advancing the hobby. I like the innovation some have used with their drives . Ron it's no secret that you want Ottos boat deemed illegal but get over it and try to beat him at the pond not in the rule book

Wow. Talk about shallow minded. Its not all about Otto at all. He loses much more than he wins and I have beaten him many times. The advantages that design gained in the straightaway was lost in the turns. Now with the NR 46, it's no contest. Traditional outboards win 90% of the time. Look at the history. Want me to spell it out? Why not try to beat everyone else with a traditional outboard design, instead of pushing the limits on a rouge design to try to get an advantage over others? There are many rouge designs out there, so before its gets out of control, it needs to be clarified, thats all.....

 

[j whiddon]

O K it's not a advantage so you want to change a rule because you don't like the way someone's boat looks?

 

[Rhonda Pickard]

I think Namba rules are more clarified and my opinion try make IMPBA as close to NAMBA as possible not go changing everything there is a lot of tunnel heads out there watching this that have been around a long time get there opinion Robert

 

[RonShaw]

O K it's not a advantage so you want to change a rule because you don't like the way someone's boat looks?

No. We want to define the Outboard classes once and for all. That way when someone shows up with an outboard tunnel at a race, they aren't looking at these rouge designs thinking, "Thats not an outboard", because they would be correct. This hobby shouldn't be about trying to gain an advantage by pushing the limits just because the obvious isn't detailed. The obvious for some reason, is no longer good enough. When the original rules were written many years ago, I guess the word "outboard", was good enough. Today, since that word is not clearly defined, many are pushing the limits using the other language describing the definitions of the class to find holes for their one-off designs. Defining the term outboard, what it represents, and what will and will not be allowed, will stop this behavior going forward and keep the integrity of the class intact.

 

[RonShaw]

How about this for one of the things that "define an outboard". Put a limit on the distance that the drive dog can be aft of the powerhead.

Yes Mark, and define the transom. The transom must be at least 80-90 degres vertical and can not be inset more than 10% of the total boat length from the rear of the sponsons. Top of hull tunnel can not extend aft of the vertical transom. Outboard engine pivot mount must be attached to the vertical transom. No part of the powerhead can extend forward past point where the lower hinge plate mounts to the transom.

These are all very standard outboard tunnel hull definitions.

Bob had some great definitions as well.

 

[j whiddon]

Good Luck ! Some times too many rules have a negative effect.

 

[rumrunner]

Why does it allways end up about the turn table ob they are legal , if you change the rule now thats fine as long as you grandfather me ,Otto Ryan and who ever else has them . It would be f... Up if you change now because certain people don't like them , next people will wan't bann certain boats cause they don't like the way they look (they don't look scale).

Like I said can of worms!