Outboard rules and class ideas needed

[Mike Crawford]

MR. CONRAD. Lawless Drives has been selling drives from 1996-7.5--1997 3.5 O/S & K/B prop shaft the motor you want O/S, CMB new N/R want to put on the drive. I sell 8/10 per year you can get 7.5 prop shafts from Technology Hobbies. I do have drives & prop shaft in stock MC

 

[John Knight]

The reason for this post is to find out what people want. When I first started running IMPBA races, there were no outboard classes. I ran my .21 tunnel in the hydro class. I was Outboard Director when the rules were being established. I want to close a few loopholes and clarify a few rules that are not working or not followed properly. At the WTC race in Charleston, for example, they run a class called "40 Outlaw Tunnel". The rules are very simple, any 40 size outboard, but no tuned pipes. I would like to put rules got this class in the rule book so others clubs could run this class at their races. I would like to propose that the name would be changed to " D Superstock Tunnel". I would like to add "B" and "E" classes to this too. Give me your thoughts and ideas, so we can accommodate everybody.

Slight correction please. At the WTC, the class is NOT the 40 OUTLAW Tunnel class. It is Sport D Tunnel class. We DO NOT use the term outlaw, period.

 

[HTV Boats]

Do you guys think that the fast electric outboard classes should come under the jurisdiction of the nitro outboard rules, or the fast electric rules, and why?

I feel outboard boaters need to control their own destiny be it nitro, gas or electric power. Nothing wrong with rules serving the special needs of our hulls that don't fit in the inboard mono, cat or hydro categories. I would like to see outboard racers who know outboard needs control their own classes.

The FE community is on board with "spec" tunnels but I see little interest beyond on this side of the country. In the years that Charleston has offered "FE" classes there has not been an FE crossover racer that I know of entering. The majority of the entries are from within the established outboard community. We have one FE racer in Florida who didn't come as the local district spec rules don't allow his controller. Non of the FE racers that made those local rules have showed up and supported Charleston which has made a definite effort to include electric motors in a major outboard event. As for rules making a P spec FE class, simply adopting the existing motors already nationally approved by NAMBA works, and that also seem to be the existing guideline for IMPBA events. It is that easy.

As has been discussed the future manufacture of motors larger than .21's is questionable. Lower units larger than .21 are available from Lawless and Hyperformance plus the supply of used K&B's is still viable. P & Q FE power can be adopted to existing hulls and will up performance beyond existing larger nitro motors. That door is open for the future of Outboards and less complicated than you think. I have converted many of the hulls you all run and the challenge will be handling the extra power which is a challenge I welcome.

Mic

 

[Tim leyde]

Mic, just to make things clear. In NAMBA FE "spec", can you use any esc or do you have to use the aquacraft / proboat 60 amp? I know the guys in WS, MN, and IL are allowing any esc. Any esc would be my pick.

 

[HTV Boats]

Tim,

Yes NAMBA has no ESC restriction. IMPBA Dist 12-13 have ESC restrictions. That debate goes on and they are holding firm. Probably keeping an outboard class out of the rulebook. As for what is needed for an IMPBA recognized class I feel a motor only rule will suffice and keep us in line with the other half of model boating. For outboards specifically I think an ESC rule will prohibit growth to larger P & Q power. For some saving $30-40 on an ESC is advantageous. For others upgrading to a larger esc for $30-40 more will give them features like data logging and allow experimentation and knowledge with larger watt motors. You could step up a P-spec to a full P with a simple 4 bolt switch that could be done between heats. I hope to get back up north one of these summers for a race and nice to know my equipment qualifies.

Mic

 

[Bob Kensill]

Mic

Send me some info or call me. Some proposals could be ready for the IMPBA nats

 

[Chilli]

D12 and D13 do indeed have their heels dug in on the ESC debate. And that's why a potential proposal got shelved a while back. A IMPBA national P-Limited class is not just about Tunnels, It's about all the P-Limited classes. I wrote the D12 FE rules and my original proposal was to include open controllers in the P-Limited classes. My only opposition was from district members who run at the World Tunnel Championships. They wanted the P-Limited rules in the district to reflect the rules at the WTC. So thats what we did. The irony is the original P-Limited rules used by the WTC were adopted from a NAMBA club in Florida. The P-Limited classes are among the most popular in my district and I have not recieved any demands from members that we go to open ESC's. I'm sure if I propsed open controllers at this point, I would really get an ear full from them. The partipants who attend events such as the WTC are indeed Tunnel Heads who consider the FE classes an addtional opportunity to race a tunnel. Yet the vast majority who run FE tunnels accross the nation in the IMPBA are AMP Heads who race tunnels for the same reason the tunnel guys run electric. Everyone needs to be part of the process.

One thing is for sure, when the P-Lim classes go national in the IMPBA (and they will some day), I'll be out there racing no matter what the rules are. I'm not going to let a silly ESC debate keep me from from doing what I love. There is just too much fun to be had!!

 

[Tim leyde]

Tim,

Yes NAMBA has no ESC restriction. IMPBA Dist 12-13 have ESC restrictions. That debate goes on and they are holding firm. Probably keeping an outboard class out of the rulebook. As for what is needed for an IMPBA recognized class I feel a motor only rule will suffice and keep us in line with the other half of model boating. For outboards specifically I think an ESC rule will prohibit growth to larger P & Q power. For some saving $30-40 on an ESC is advantageous. For others upgrading to a larger esc for $30-40 more will give them features like data logging and allow experimentation and knowledge with larger watt motors. You could step up a P-spec to a full P with a simple 4 bolt switch that could be done between heats. I hope to get back up north one of these summers for a race and nice to know my equipment qualifies.

Mic

Mic, thanks for the info. I'm sure there was a big debate in IMPBA Dist. 12&13. However I disagree with it. Look at it this way. IMPBA B Sport Tunnel Class, you can do any mods to the internals of the motor. But you have to be a slave to Proboat and Aquacraft. Not to mention NAMBA already had rules in place (that I personally agree with). Why change? The very little you can do with a programmable ESC is no different than what a guy running B Sport Tunnel can do...

Your always welcome up north Mic! Last race of the season is always one of the best, next to when Mike Z and Big Bryon show up!

 

[HTV Boats]

Mike,

You and the guys in 12-13 are doing good things for FE racing and increased opportunity for everyone. Like you I will still race within the rules or change to classes that fit for me. My other FE boats are a P & Q mono.

However in an outboard discussion I have to follow my beliefs on what is good for outboards first. If an limited outboard class was created without an ESC limitation it won't negatively affect the rest of boating. Local districts can still have rules and with their ESC choice and not be at any competitive disadvantage if they travel.

When it comes to full P and Q outboards they are not like other inboard hulls. With the existing hulls which run very well you can't just power up to 5000watts and a 300 + amp esc. A waste of resources. Overpowering is a disaster. The inherent delicate balance needed takes skill in setup and driving to survive. Going above a 1521 size P or Q motor does not work well at all. Actually a 1515 in P works perfect and will work on 30-32inch hulls that could do well in the limited class. What you give up in speed you get back in handling.

Mic

 

[Chilli]

I respect your opinion Mic. If you tunnel guys decide to go forward with a proposal be sure the keep the FE Director Chris Harris in the loop. Even though you have the interests of the Tunnel boaters at heart, a proposed P-Limited Tunnel class can have a big impact on the FE community within the IMPBA. Until then, no need for me to blow hot air in cyberspace.

 

[obrien]

I am for the open esc rule in spec tunnel. I am not going to go into my reasons here as I have stated them more than once in another discussion and I am not going to start an argument here. As far as P & Q classes are concerned. I would say that using the basic cell count and max boat length, should be sufficient. As Mic stated,its easy to over power a tunnel with the electric power that is available.

 

[Tim leyde]

In are club. The rules for P LTD/SPEC Tunnel are as follows:

Open ESC

Batteries can not exceed 5000mah, 14.8V

Motor must be a motor that is from a RTR FE. Weather it be PB or AQ.

I personally would like to have motor options available to a specific size KV.

TL

 

[Rhonda Pickard]

Try to keep it close to what Namba has because you have Namba people coming to your races and IMPBA going to NAMBA Robert

 

[RonShaw]

Bob,

There are several big block outboard options. If someone really wants to race the class, they can easily find an outboard engine on eBay or get the mount that allows a CMB RS style engine to mount to a K&B or Lawless lower unit. I would say leave the outboard classes as they are, with the exception of two things.

1- Define what an "outboard" really is and update the specifications on what is and is not allowed.

2- Officially add P-Limited Tunnel, Gas Tunnel, and ModVP Classes to the mix. As always, representation in the different areas of the country will dictate which calsses the clubs will run, and all of the choices are still there.

Great thread and glad to see so much interest in the highest level of RC boat racing available today in the IMPBA and NAMBA, outboard tunnel racing.... I will follow your lead and as the newly appointed NAMBA National Outboard Director, I would like to work with you to bring the outboard rules of both organizations much closer together.

 

[James E Beasley]

1. I agree with an earlier post, B Stock Tunnel should be exactly that, a completely stock engine, no mods, you have to win it with prop selection and driving skills. If we continue with the rules we have now change the class name to B Super Stock as it really is. 2. Lower units allowed for use must have been mass produced in quantities equal to or exceeding 100. These homemade Frankenstein lower units degrade the class. None of them resemble a full scale lower unit on any F-1 Tunnel Hull ever raced. Thanks for asking for our opinions. James Beasley

 

[SayMikey]

Our current B class is B Sport Tunnel and its working very well as is.

 

[James E Beasley]

Our current B class is B Sport Tunnel and its working very well as is.

Mike you are correct on the name, but it is routinely referred to and listed as B Stock Tunnel. V/R, James

 

[Don Ferrette]

Our current B class is B Sport Tunnel and its working very well as is.

Correct. And if you change it to stone stock motors then you open up a can of worms with tech'ing the motors to stop the cheaters. And if you think people won't cheat you are living in a fantasy world. This has been a problem in a popular gas class but most don't have the stones to protest and/or tech the motors at the races when it happens. Instead they'd rather turn a blind eye at the event because they don't want to be labeled as a snitch but then ***** about it after the fact to anyone who will listen. <_<

 

[Mark Poole ModVP]

I believe good additions would be Sport D, Mod-VP and Kneeler. Here is why........

Sport D. Easy to police, good hull size for beginners and competitive because no tuned pipes. Great class for those who like to tinker.

Mod-VP....This class would do well if everyone nationwide was on the same page with simple written rules for the hull criteria. Allow mono hulls just like the lifesize class did. Doing this creates a class in IMPBA that OB monos can compete in. At present, an OB mono has to compete against inboard monos. This would be the RC outboard "door slammer" class. Dozens of hulls, from monos to modified tunnels to design your own. A simple go-no go "stick" gauge is all that is needed to quickly check hulls to be legal.

Kneeler....Always wondered why it took so long for the grass roots boats of OB racing to find their way into RC and now they have. Establish a solid set of rules for what defines a "kneeler" and stick to them. Decide up front if you will allow belly pans, rear sponsons, cowls, etc.

.21 engines are a sure bet with Mod-VP and Kneeler. But, focus on establishing the HULL rules. Don't shut out the possiblilty of of someone racing a Sport D kneeler or Open class Mod-VP. The districts and clubs will run what is trending just like Charleston does.

 

[John Knight]

Our current B class is B Sport Tunnel and its working very well as is.

Mike you are correct on the name, but it is routinely referred to and listed as B Stock Tunnel. V/R, James

It is referred to as the Sport B Tunnel class and not stock. That term has not been used for several years in IMPBA. Go back to the past WTC races and you will see Sport used instead of stock for both of the B and D classes. The MOD-VP class must comply with the Sport B engine rules as well. The Fall Nationals also use the IMPBA class designations but we have no room for the Sport D Tunnel class in that event with 25 other classes being offered.