Noise Commentary in IMPBA Roostertail

[Preston_Hall]

I have never met Preston, Don or any of the others trying to resolve this problem but I see them trying to do something about it in the same way they try to help people with technical help on this board.

Thanks for the voice of reasoning Dave.

Preston, I`ll be glad to give you all the 1 on 1 boat Lesson you can stand... You boys keep it Civil & Bring some boats to the Nats. I have been to the last 5 out of 6 Nats. Never seen you before. We can talk SMACK till Dons Ass Falls off. But you can Bet we will Get it On @ the Nats.... P.S. Bring some spare Parts / Boats. Joe W

You don't see me at the Nats because I don't feel as though I can afford it. There is plenty of water between us however. Now you want to keep it civil but threaten me with the idea that you will run my boats over. That's a good reason not to go anywhere with you. I don't put my stuff out for somebody to willing destroy. I spend good money and lots of time in this hobby and don't plan on waisting it! I am a fair person when it comes to coordinating, directing and racing at events. You are being childish.

Don Faggitti and that guy Presstin can realy bring distaste to a hobby. Remember this is toy boats we are talking about here. Always whinning about somthing or other. I've seen how they run things at ODMB in Va. Kissing each others a_ _ s all the time. Presstin, you all still owe me my trophy from 40 mono at your "classic"race. Take your noise arguments and place them,..... well you know.......and Don once in a while travel past your local pond into the big world and do some real racing. I've traveled the country but have never seen you anywhere but Va. Lots of talk, No chatter, but not alot of action. This is what I would expect from a person that devotes that much time to a hobby, you know, we are playing with toys, right........?     

For everybody's information, Blaisse is mad because I had to asked him to get his son a pair of closed toed shoes while in th pits. Not once, not twice, but three times. As the contest director this was my responsibility. I should not have to put up with people threatening a fight. Yes, we have your trophy still. If you would not have stomped off early then you would have received it. Send me the postage and I will send you the trophy. I will also send the shoes that you threw in the woods as garbage for us to clean up.

I like when these types form an early and uneducated opinion because it let's me know not to waist my time with them. As such, I have waisted enough time with them and hope that nobody else buys into this garbage.

Bash all you want now. I am done. Maybe I am scared, chicken, wrong, or whatever.

 

[Al Waters]

Noise and IMPBA has almost reached 7 "pages" of posts. The discussion of NAMBA and noise reached seven "total" posts. I know that there are some really good people out here but why do you guys have to beat on each other like you do. It doesn't help the hobby out at all.

Al Waters

NAMBA Vice President

NAMBA Scale Unlimited Chairman

President - Southern California Scale Thunderboat Association

 

[Mark Bullard]

Everyone in D-5 is complying with the rules that are in the rule book. And I must say that there is less noise at the races that I have been to. I am running muffled pipes and my boats are well below 95db. I race at about 8 to 10 races a year and travel about a 500 mile one way or further and have been to many races sites. So I believe that I do know what is going on in most places in the country. I never said that I was pro-noise or pro-muffler. Don I must agree with some other threads that I have read that I have not seen you to much at any races period. I have only missed about four internats in the past twenty years and I only remember you at one of them and that was in 1999 in Huntsville Al. It is people like you that are causing the problems with your mouth. When you try to push people they will push back. I know that in Slidell I was talking to Pat Kelly with some other people and he was collecting about 95 to 100db with us talking in the group and no one was being loud. I am sure that we may need to put a muffler on your mouth because I am sure that you will suceed 120db. As for someone else's thread I do have a life and I have spent many years trying to help people in this hobby in many ways. My tent has always been open to anyone that wanted my help. I to have won many races and had world records and other achievements but what makes this hobby is the people that is in it. And some of the commits that I have read in this forum have turned my stomach. I hope that all the ones in question are happy with yourselfs because this tears this hobby apart instead of helping anything.

In time our mufflers will get better and better and noise will be reduced more and more. The main point that is trying to be made is that a db number is not a good way to reduce noise because of the laws of physics. If you quote a db limit at a race and you try to single fellow racers out and say they are to loud I can say that the way some people are and feel about the time and money they have put into this hobby they will push back with some kind of legal force. And guess what the laws of physics will be on there side and the db number that you quoted will bite you on the you know what. Because you will not be able to prove your standing because of the laws of physics. Therefore they will see just how deep your pockets are and you will wish you had never heard of a db meter.

I know this sounds harsh but everyone needs to think about the end results. I am sure that no one has taking db readings at someone's yard next to a lake and if they did they found no change in db numbers but guess what you can still hear the boats running. These Districts that have chosen to have a db limit may need to rethink what they have done before they are made a example of. I would hate to hear about some club and or someone being taking to the cleaners because of some rule that will not hold water.

I will not discuss this anymore because I feel I have made my point. I will still contiune to try to improve this hobby as I have and follow the rules and guidelines in the IMPBA. Also the ones that others think that are to loud but are not. I will try to help them to improve there muffler systems so the ones that are crying the loudest will be louder than them. Because this is the rules of the IMPBA.

Mark Bullard

IMPBA #

9123 S/CD

 

[DaveMarles]

A simple question then. If NAMBA can run to a 90 db limit why can't IMPBA. No lawyers in the NAMBA area?

Can I offer some ideas based on experience? A muffler rule will never work, ever. You will probably get more people spending time finding a way to add a muffler that doesnt reduce noise than they ever would to make the boat quieter. If that's the rule you have in place already, then maybe the individual race organisers should impose a level for their own races.

Noise levels are easy monitor. You make the rule that the boat has to be reading less than 90 db or whatever at say 30 ft ON THE METER. That gives 20 foot from the course for driving for those that need to keep away from the meter. Don't make it that the boat has to be under 90 db, that just leads to arguments. Make the rule that the boat has to be reading less than the 90 db ON THE METER. There is a difference. Then it doesnt matter about the external things that will affect the noise reading ie trees, soft banks, concrete walls etc.

Get a calibrator for the meter. They are not expensive, about 50 to 80 dollars.

Put someone on the meter that has some authority and common sense. Don't try and read 1 boat in a bunch of 6. Can't work. Noise is accumulative, thats just physics. If a very noisy boat is in a group of 6 for the whole race then its tough, you can't measure it. Its not going to happen very often. Don't pick on the noisiest boats. Pick on the ones over the limit. There is a difference. Give them a warning after the heat. Same noise level in the next heat, no more running that day. Pretty soon everyone gets the message. Of course you will get the comments such as... My boat was OK at the last place, why is it different here. Doesnt matter, its meter reading that matters.

Where I race, we went from no noise limit to 82 db imposed overnight by the government. Lots of arguments at first but pretty soon everyone got there. We had the first mass use of rubber mounts, we had rubber mounted exhausts, we had propshafts fixed in the boat with silicone, we had lots of spray cans, mousse cans and anything else that would fit on the back of the tuned pipes made into silencers.

Now we only see noise meters at Championships and big Internationals and only rarely are people pulled for noise. If they are, then they fix it quick or its time to go home. We lost a lot of lakes through noise but now we seem to be getting a few back.

Dave

 

[Bart Drieghe]

I don't say this often but AMEN DAVE lol .

We held an international race last year , someone made like 90 db during the second qualification , he received a warning . he went into the final and during the final he was more then ok .

Its just a habit , first a warning , no improvement and next race out of it . Thats it

no hassle , no nothing .

one comment to some guys , im surprised that u're fighting like kids , i thought we were all pretty mature . In the end it should lead to this : improving the hobby .

nothing more , nothing less .

regards ,

Bart

 

[F.Orlic]

As an outsider looking at this discussion, I see a few things. I see 3 abusive people on here and they are the pro noise guys and that includes Bloos Rocker, obviously a very funny guy, Not. I see someone bringing a family bereavement into it to add weight to what they say, that I just do not understand. I also see Frank Orlic who obviously has no noise problems where he’s at, but decries others trying to solve the problem that will become everyone’s problem sooner or later. Frank is a clever guy, why doesn’t he design some decent silencers? I don’t think that commenting on or discussing this problem is whining, I think the whiners are those who complain about moving on to what is I an inevitable conclusion. I have never met Preston, Don or any of the others trying to resolve this problem but I see them trying to do something about it in the same way they try to help people with technical help on this board. Then we have the same old pro noise arguments that have been around before. A few that spring to mind are.... I’m not going to be told what to do, I like my boats to be noisy, I don’t need my boats to be quiet because my lake is miles from anywhere, you cant measure the noise accurately, Its not going to damage anyone’s hearing. Pardon ‘could you say that again’, I can’t get my boats to run when they have mufflers, it’s a different noise level at a different lake. Some good ones at a race meeting are… the guy that backs of the throttle past the noise meter, the guy that runs in open water with no muffler because ‘its not the race and so I don’t need to be under the noise limit’, the guy that trickles water into a can on the pipe that he calls a muffler who’s boat is not too noisy on the lake but deafens everyone in the pits. Recognise any of this ?

95 db is very loud, I guess it’s a start to try that limit, but getting under that is not rocket science. Any good boater can get their boats under 95 db, its too easy. The ones who are not very competent and say they can’t do it/won’t do it are probably the same ones who hose you down in a race and cut the lanes to stop you passing.

Who cares what a doctor says. the problem is people complaining about noise, and that’s the environment, not OSHA or whatever. If you are losing lakes then get an environmental scientist to give you a few tips on noise measurement because I bet you will be over-run with them in a few years time, if not already.

I’ve raced under a lot of different noise measurement regimes and travelled a lot of miles doing it (probably more than Blues Rocket) and try to make sure my boats are under the limit. If I get pulled in a heat for noise, I don’t complain, I do something about it and you can believe me that I do complain if I think something is unfair.

By the way, regarding the guy threatening lawsuits, get a life.

Dave Rocket

Dave, I must corect you on few things, as I said few times before I would like to see noise restrictions but thing that bothers me is when a small number of people try to force a change. Unlike you, I know many of the people on this forum personaly and I have a bit different perspective on what goes on at the races.

This is what worries me

"

I have seen Don with his meter and the db level wasn't any higher with the boat 3 feet away than it was 50 feet away. This whole "how to measure" issue is being exagerated in my opinion. But in the defense of others, I probably would not have believed it til I saw it"
There is something wrong with this.

DB level yes and lets set it at 92 or lower so we don't have to have another fight two years down the road.

Measuring with cheap Radio Shack DB meter (probably made in China) with +/- 2db accuracy is not good enough.

Temporarily we will loose some performance but who cares, we will find way to go faster again.

Dave, your second post have some excelent info and I hope few people learn something from it.

Frank Orlic

 

[Joe_Knesek]

I've never measured any of my boats with a db meter but from the sounds of things, it seems like most muffled pipes will be under 95 db. If that's the case, do we need a db limit or will a better construction rule work? Something that prevents people from slipping an add on muffler so far over the pipe that the stinger is sticking through the muffler.

 

[Don Ferrette]

Frank I think maybe Preston meant around 3 feet from shore or 50 feet away. The readings were generally within a 1/2 to 1 dB. And it's a calibrated meter, not a cheap one either.

 

[TimD]

If anyone would like a copy of the relevant noise regulations used in Australia - I can email the relevant pages. It covers the placement of the meter, the dB limit at a set distance, calibration etc.

Tim.

 

[rcboatlover]

I will also send the shoes that you threw in the woods as garbage for us to clean up.

That's too funny! I'm willing to bet he looked like a fool when doing it. :lol:

 

[Grimracer]

Man im more then a little embarrassed by what im reading.. All this "bring it on" Stuff and one guy saying this because that guy said that… this is why i got out of slot car racing... Slot dudes can be brutal...lol

If i see this kind of action at the nats this year i will be embarrassed for the guys involved, the rest of the racers and the IMPBA. :unsure:

We have a club and community (thanks Jackson TN) that has GONE OUT OF THERE WAY to bring you the 2004 IMPBA International Regatta and all this talk is likely not making them feel to good about there decision to host this event. I could be wrong, but its making me a little uneasy.

When I joined this board this was not the kind of information I was hoping to gain.

When the dust settles "and it will" from all this I myself will still be doing all I can to make my boat quieter.. Im making the decision to quite my boat.. Just makes sense to me.. Am I going to get it right the first time? I dont know, but it should not be to hard to do i have run them in the past and there are other pipes out there for me to buy.. fast or not…I dont care, the speed will come in time.. I just want to keep racing..

Heck you never know..just might force to me re-look in to my prop program.. that cant be bad...

Mike Zaborowski

 

[shoboat]

Mike,

Right On!!! I couldn't of said it any better myself.

It is time to go work on my Quiet Setup and do some Propeller Testing.

Let's Go Have Some Fun,

Mark Sholund

 

[Tim Kish]

Well said Mike.

I had been planning on taking my son to the Internats this year

but I have all but made up my mind to spend a week of our lives doing something else.

Tim

 

[offshoremodels]

WOW what a shame. I have been looking at getting into 1/4 scale cars hope there more fun.

 

[TimD]

I had been planning on taking my son to the Internats this year

but I have all but made up my mind to spend a week of our lives doing something else.

I am really saddened to see that things have degraded to the point where people are turned off attending any racing.

Forum users need to remeber that (a) this is a public forum and anyone can read it. ( B) we are embassidors for R/C boat racing. Our behaviour in public reflects on our sport / hobby.

 

[TomMoorehouse]

I've been keeping out of this one so far..... but here is my take.....

at first I was pro noise.... hey man THAT'S COOL!

Then last year we had to run quiet pipes in our district..... so I went quiet.... after running mine a few times it was like DUH.... they still sound cool and i'm not hurting my ears.... it is just soo much nicer in the pits with quiet pipes.

Are we done with this topic..... how about I lock it out?

That's all i'm going to say...

 

[Don Ferrette]

Lock it please! Obviously there is just no reaching these pro noise individuals. <_<

It won't matter as the majority will make this happen anyway........