IMPBA noise rule & dB meters

[Don Ferrette]

This is exactly why I would like to focus on a format like the motorcycle guys use. Static testing within X feet of the boat, hit it full throttle, take a reading, you pass or you don't. We need to take a number of boats that run under the limit (NOT at it) on the pond, then test static & record the readings. You do this enough & you will see a pattern emerge of what your static dB scale will need to be to equate to 92dB on the water. And honestly I would like to see this done at a very unforgiving sites also to see how ALL the readings correlate. Use this format & it won't matter what pond you're at when you test a number of feet away from the boat. Simple, easy, repeatable. B)

 

[Grimracer]

Don,

Your on the right track if its a DB you want to use.. metrics we all can use.. im still not a fan of the DB meter ….but at least im willing to listen..

Its still silly to think that this is some safety thing as if it was we would be asked to put in ear plugs... less hassle and you dont need a DB meter for that ...

This is about I want to go faster then you... be the fast guy.. beat up on the saps that are slower then I.. to hell with them im going to go fast.. blaha.. blaha.. blaha.. yaun...

The few that are complaining will always complain.. hell you dont hear Rod G complaining and he was the first man in the IMPBA to get the boot for being to lowed...

With out trying to sound to brutal...Good luck racers.. do what you will.. IF you guys get this figured out before we all loose our ponds to the FE guys let me know.. :lol: if this keeps up its just a matter of time...heck the FE guys are going faster and they will soon be cheaper then us... hum... like your nitro?... I know i do.. its time to work together and OPEN your eyes and ears..

ROCK OUT

Grimracer

 

[bzubee]

Roxy How do you keep people back 20 feet from the waters edge per the SAFETY RULE? 25 feet is not that far back from th ewaters edge. Mark is talking alost 75 feet from th ewaters edge the present rule is 25 feet since that would allow who ever is do the testing to stay in a relative protective area. Whe are yo ulocated interested in seeing your lake site set up.

At are pond if you set the DB meter 25 foot from waters edge you would have to close the road.Thats not goin to happen it needs to be alot closer so we can do it properly.Need a set distance....

 

[Mark Bullard]

New FE motor 3500hp, 3450rpm, 4160vac the only problem it will not pass 92dB.

Don,

Your on the right track if its a DB you want to use.. metrics we all can use.. im still not a fan of the DB meter ….but at least im willing to listen..

Its still silly to think that this is some safety thing as if it was we would be asked to put in ear plugs... less hassle and you dont need a DB meter for that ...

This is about I want to go faster then you... be the fast guy.. beat up on the saps that are slower then I.. to hell with them im going to go fast.. blaha.. blaha.. blaha.. yaun...

The few that are complaining will always complain.. hell you dont hear Rod G complaining and he was the first man in the IMPBA to get the boot for being to lowed...

With out trying to sound to brutal...Good luck racers.. do what you will.. IF you guys get this figured out before we all loose our ponds to the FE guys let me know.. :lol: if this keeps up its just a matter of time...heck the FE guys are going faster and they will soon be cheaper then us... hum... like your nitro?... I know i do.. its time to work together and OPEN your eyes and ears..

ROCK OUT

Grimracer

 

[Grimracer]

Mark,

You left your BEER on the motor.. is that how you warm your beer.. :lol:

Grimracer

 

[Mark Bullard]

Mark,

You left your BEER on the motor.. is that how you warm your beer.. :lol:

Grimracer

You got me on that one. But that is a bottle of STP oil. We use it on the bearings when we reassemble the motor. This motor has sleeve bearings. I sent a copy of the picture to Randall but he said that he did not have a boat that it would work in right now. And he did not know how long a 1149S100P lipo pack would last.

Mark

 

[Roxyflash]

Well we had the dist 4 race last year at the site im talking about guess its not legal per IMPBA rules.Looks like i opened a can of worms.Kinda funny we had races there before.I bet were not the only one guess its time to go back to the drawing board.Hard to believe running a model boat has to be such a hassle anymore.Took alot of the fun out of a simple hobby.Soo what needs to be done???????????

 

[Don Ferrette]

Well we had the dist 4 race last year at the site im talking about guess its not legal per IMPBA rules.Looks like i opened a can of worms.Kinda funny we had races there before.I bet were not the only one guess its time to go back to the drawing board.Hard to believe running a model boat has to be such a hassle anymore.Took alot of the fun out of a simple hobby.Soo what needs to be done???????????

Yet another reason for an on shore static type of testing. Simple, easy, repeatable.

just keep saying it over & over .... simple, easy, repeatable .... simple, easy, repeatable .........

 

[bzubee]

Roxy is this the Badger lake site? Main thing is to protect the people where a boat is most likely to come ashore either by keeping people at least 20 feet back from the water's edge, using netting, or both depending on the risk for that area. I would suggest contacting Brian Nelson our National Safety Director snd him some pictures and ask for his advice. One thing we have done and the word has gone out is to start changing out the orange plastic netting that most clubs used and switch over to the cloth type netting. The orange netting gets rotten after being exposed to the sun for a while if you can tear it with your hands it needs to be replaced. John Equi has the netting contact information that was provided by Mike Zambroski. John is the IMPBA Sectretary.

Well we had the dist 4 race last year at the site im talking about guess its not legal per IMPBA rules.Looks like i opened a can of worms.Kinda funny we had races there before.I bet were not the only one guess its time to go back to the drawing board.Hard to believe running a model boat has to be such a hassle anymore.Took alot of the fun out of a simple hobby.Soo what needs to be done???????????

 

[Jet Driver]

Eliminate the RULE!!!! This issue is a local problem for SOME clubs not all clubs. Simply make hearing protection manditory for all pits and stop spending all of the money. I guess next we will go after the NHRA for Nitro classes being too loud. This issue has been blown way out of proportion and is now making it ridiculous for everyone to try and comply.

This is an extremely important issue. I believe there are a few things we can do to improve the “INTEGRITY” of our noise-level testing.

First, almost everyone is running high-end equipment, boats, motors, and radios because we all want to be as competitive as possible. We seem willing to spend vast amounts of money to add a few MPH’s to a boat, but when we go to buy an important piece of equipment (Sound Decibel Meter), we settle for the cheapest one on the market.

Radio Shack’s web site only listed one unit when I searched this morning and it was a whopping $49.99, and it is advertised as:

“Restore balance to your life.

Get precise readings when you fine-tune audio response of a stereo, PA or home theater system in combination with an equalizer.

And,

Disclaimer: This meter should be used for home/hobbyist use only. This meter does not meet the requirements set forth by the American National Standards Institute (ANSI), Standard S1.4.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.js...rentPage=search

When I searched the web, I found Industrial strength Db Meters and Calibration units all the way up to $500 and they do meet the ANSI Standard.

Here is a site: http://www.monarchinstrument.com/Sound.htm

I suspect there is a difference in the quality and reliability of this equipment. I am not proposing that every club spend that much money, but for our annual Regatta, maybe we should demand high quality Dd measuring equipment that has been recently calibrated and certified. If we get DQ’ed then, at least it was with quality test equipment.

Moron’s post listed the IMPBA rules. In C #1 he says, “the unit should be positioned 4-6 feet above the ground”. What effect does this placement have if the unit is stationed on a hill 15-feet about the water, vs. readings taken 4-6 feet above the actual water level?

Just some of my initial thoughts for the groups consideration.

Charlie Blackwell………….

 

[Don Ferrette]

Eliminate the RULE!!!! This issue is a local problem for SOME clubs not all clubs. Simply make hearing protection manditory for all pits and stop spending all of the money. I guess next we will go after the NHRA for Nitro classes being too loud. This issue....<SNIP>

The rule is in place and isn't going anywhere so get used to it. Make hearing protection manditory in the pits you say? So what do you say to the guy who just had his side or back ripped open by a spinning prop because he didn't hear someone trying to tell him to watch out. I have seen sooo many near misses, even a shirt torn from that very scenario so that approach flat out won't fly. BTW- I used to be a BIG time fan of top fuel drag racing myself, have you happened to notice how many famous drag strips are gone because of the NOISE complaints from encroaching development? And this is nowhere near being blown out of proportion, do yourself a favor & do a Google or Yahoo search on 2 cycle small engine noise pollution & see what comes up. I did & the results were startling, had no idea how many of the anti-noise zealots are out there. I have an addiction to these little boats & plan on racing for some time to come ..... as long as we still have places to run. The quieting of the boats has to happen, just ask some of the boaters who've lost ponds because of noise complaints. Why draw the un-needed negative attention when someone complains about the noise? Be pro-active & do something about it now while you still can ............

BTW- Jet Driver who are you? A name adds credibility. h34r:

 

[Terry Keeley]

Looking at some stuff from the AMA I came accross something that may explain the dB readings at Evansville. Their model aerobatics rules have a section for dB limits:

• 4.2. Noise limit. Each reciprocating or rotary

piston internal combustion engine shall be equipped

with an effective silencer. The maximum noise level

for all classes shall be 96 decibels measured at three

(3) meters from the center line of the model with the

model standing on concrete or macadam, and 94 dB

if an earth or short grass surface must be used. All

measurements will be taken perpendicular to the

fuselage centerline on the right-hand downwind side

of the model with the motor running at full power;

the microphone to be placed on a stand 30 centimeters

above the ground and in line with the motor. No

noise reflecting objects shall be nearer than three (3)

meters to model or microphone. A score penalty of

five (5) percent of the raw flight score shall be

assessed for those models registering over 96 dB, and

a 10 percent penalty for those registering over 98 dB.

The Contest Director shall have the option of deleting

the noise level requirement at any sanctioned

event.

Notice they allow two dB higher if the aircraft is sitting on pavement. The dB meters in Evansville were on tripods sitting on a concrete sidewalk, wonder if the hard surface had an effect on the readings? Also notice they say no noise reflecting objects can be closer that 3 meters (10') to the meter, IIRC there were canopies very close at Evansville...

 

[John Knight]

Terry,

I guarantee that placing the meter, no matter what they cost, on a tripod on concrete, will amplify the sound into the meter and artifically INCREASE the DB level according to my work engineers. I will listen to them!

Go back to my post #274, page 19, and use the non-metal table and foam method like they suggest. And not on concrete or asphalt either. Vibrations could come through and increase the readings. Make sure the nose of the meter is just beyond the edge of the foam. JUST TRY IT. It does make a difference. I used this method yesterday. Table, foam, on dirt using a Radio Shack digital meter and saw:

20 rigger with a half cowl (NR engine) and hit a high of 88, OPS nitro pipe.

40 rigger hit 84 with a full cowl and AB parabolic, drilled.

 

[steve wood]

Eliminate the RULE!!!! This issue is a local problem for SOME clubs not all clubs. Simply make hearing protection manditory for all pits and stop spending all of the money. I guess next we will go after the NHRA for Nitro classes being too loud. This issue....<SNIP>

The rule is in place and isn't going anywhere so get used to it. Make hearing protection manditory in the pits you say? So what do you say to the guy who just had his side or back ripped open by a spinning prop because he didn't hear someone trying to tell him to watch out. I have seen sooo many near misses, even a shirt torn from that very scenario so that approach flat out won't fly. BTW- I used to be a BIG time fan of top fuel drag racing myself, have you happened to notice how many famous drag strips are gone because of the NOISE complaints from encroaching development? And this is nowhere near being blown out of proportion, do yourself a favor & do a Google or Yahoo search on 2 cycle small engine noise pollution & see what comes up. I did & the results were startling, had no idea how many of the anti-noise zealots are out there. I have an addiction to these little boats & plan on racing for some time to come ..... as long as we still have places to run. The quieting of the boats has to happen, just ask some of the boaters who've lost ponds because of noise complaints. Why draw the un-needed negative attention when someone complains about the noise? Be pro-active & do something about it now while you still can ............

BTW- Jet Driver wh,o are you? A name adds credibility. h34r:

i started to lose my hearing in junior high. too many shotgun blasts,outboard motors,chainsaws, racecars,etc. i always wear ear plugs in the pits, especially at races. i have not had or seen any problem with this and would recomend it to everyone. maybe we ought to pass this as a rule. what do you guys think, that passed the stupid 92 db rule that won't work. think this will work for you.

don't get me wrong and think that i don't want to quiet our boats down (i'm trying like hell) but the db rule as it stands need to be changed........................................

 

[Roxyflash]

Well said Steve and he does use them all the time.

 

[Chris Wood]

look at my post on testing under the QUIETING DOWN BOATS TOPIC.

chris

 

[Joe Warren]

Eliminate the RULE!!!! This issue is a local problem for SOME clubs not all clubs. Simply make hearing protection manditory for all pits and stop spending all of the money. I guess next we will go after the NHRA for Nitro classes being too loud. This issue....<SNIP>

The rule is in place and isn't going anywhere so get used to it. Make hearing protection manditory in the pits you say? So what do you say to the guy who just had his side or back ripped open by a spinning prop because he didn't hear someone trying to tell him to watch out. I have seen sooo many near misses, even a shirt torn from that very scenario so that approach flat out won't fly. BTW- I used to be a BIG time fan of top fuel drag racing myself, have you happened to notice how many famous drag strips are gone because of the NOISE complaints from encroaching development? And this is nowhere near being blown out of proportion, do yourself a favor & do a Google or Yahoo search on 2 cycle small engine noise pollution & see what comes up. I did & the results were startling, had no idea how many of the anti-noise zealots are out there. I have an addiction to these little boats & plan on racing for some time to come ..... as long as we still have places to run. The quieting of the boats has to happen, just ask some of the boaters who've lost ponds because of noise complaints. Why draw the un-needed negative attention when someone complains about the noise? Be pro-active & do something about it now while you still can ............

BTW- Jet Driver who are you? A name adds credibility. h34r:

Jet Driver is Glenn B, He spends most his days @ 40,000 flying for Fed-X. The DB ruling Preventing hearing loss is a Joke..... Most of Us work on equipment or are surrounded by noises @ work that would break the $500 meter.... I work on equipment every day that is So loud.... it would make most piss their pants.... There are already fall races & events that say they will Not Enforce the Db Rule.... I would say the clubs will have the final say.... B)