MY NEW SPORT 20 BUILD ...LEGAL OR NOT THAT IS THE QUESTION

[Don Ferrette]

I am not really clear on the last sentence either. Does it mean that you cannot have a single boom or airfoil connecting the sponsons to the tub or does it mean that you cannot flare the mounts into the tub and sponsons.

Supports- plural as in left and right side with lines defining the sponson, support and tub. Think lobster boat for example.

 

[Mark Bullard]

I am not really clear on the last sentence either. Does it mean that you cannot have a single boom or airfoil connecting the sponsons to the tub or does it mean that you cannot flare the mounts into the tub and sponsons.

Supports- plural as in left and right side with lines defining the sponson, support and tub. Think lobster boat for example.

Ok then. Now with that said it makes my case stronger on the sponsons mounted like a lobster boat on the bottom and coverd on the top to hide it on the sport boats. It also make the wording stronger on the sponsons connected to a continuous hull.

 

[SCOTT WITHERELL]

I'm Back,First I got to say Brad,I sorry for what I said very sorry,I was way out ,way out, of line with my comment,yes my pantys were in a bunch,when I saw this topic,It brought back memorys of the belly pan rules,Had some misdirected anger,and for that I am truly sorry.""shame on me!"".but back to the continus hull here's some more pic's,by the way I like to see a weight limit for sport hulls(It's only an Idea of mine )to keep the plating feild even.liter boat's and GP boat have weight limits??? only an Idea.EX--sport 20 -6lb's////sport40-8lb's minimum.or what ever the average is???.these pic's I think ,Mark is talking about.and if those new desighn's need to have an % rating,on sponson seperation,(this has nothing to do with building method).

 

[Mark Bullard]

I'm Back,First I got to say Brad,I sorry for what I said very sorry,I was way out ,way out, of line with my comment,tes my pantys were in a bunch,when I saw this topic,It brought back memorys of the belly pan rules,Had some misdirected anger,and for that I am truly sorry.""shame on me!"".but back to the continus hull here's some more pic's,by the way I like to see a weight limit for sport hulls(It's only an Idea of mine )to keep the plating feild even.liter boat's and GP boat have weight limits??? only an Idea.EX--sport 20 -6lb's////sport40-8lb's minimum.or what ever the average is???.these pic's I think ,Mark is talking about.and if those new desighn's need to have an % rating,on sponson seperation,(this has nothing to do with building method).

Your dead on with these pictures. The first two pictures is what I call a continuous hull.

 

[Brad Christy]

Mark,

So what you're saying is that the transom width at the bottom has to be the same as the sponson inside width? I would strongly disagree with this line of thought. It is far too general in it's disclusion and severely limits innovation. You might as well call in the "Phil Thomas" class instead of "Sport 40". Nothing intended against Phil or his boat, I like his boats.

Thanks. Brad.

Titan Racing Components

BlackJack Hydros

 

[Greg Hahn]

Mark,
So what you're saying is that the transom width at the bottom has to be the same as the sponson inside width? I would strongly disagree with this line of thought. It is far too general in it's disclusion and severely limits innovation. You might as well call in the "Phil Thomas" class instead of "Sport 40". Nothing intended against Phil or his boat, I like his boats.

Thanks. Brad.

Titan Racing Components

BlackJack Hydros

If I may weigh in here a little from another perspective. I look at this class similar to how Mikey and I look at scale: what's the intent of the class???. To me "Sport" is just that, similar to a "Spec" class. You take a standard 60's /70's style hull and tweak what you can with set up. Where does inovation come in to this class? If you want to inovate, you run 20 hydro where you're essentially un-limited in scope.

At the rate it's going with the whips and others, the difference between sport 20 and B hydro is nill. Might as well just make it one class and shorten the day.

Just my friendly observation

gh

 

[Brad Christy]

Greg,

Well......... Yes and no......... IMHO.

As long as you require it to be a full decked hydro, the scale/sport classes will always be different from the outriggers. In addition, I really see no difference between Sp20 and Sp40, other than the obvious engine displacement maximums. I also think there is alot of room for innovation within the sport classes without compromising the intent of the classes.

If you're going to make a "SPEC" class, then make a spec class. Tell everybody interested to call Phil and order a boat. Tell them to call Stu and order a new CMB45HR. On race day, right after the drivers meeting, hand them all a prop and dispence a gallon of fuel for each of them from your controlled source into their empty fuel jug.........

But there are already too many classes now. Heck, I couldn't even get anybody to get in line with spec rules for the novice class (where it is OBVIOUSLY needed).

Thanks. Brad.

Titan Racing Components

BlackJack Hydros

 

[Mark Bullard]

Mark,
So what you're saying is that the transom width at the bottom has to be the same as the sponson inside width? I would strongly disagree with this line of thought. It is far too general in it's disclusion and severely limits innovation. You might as well call in the "Phil Thomas" class instead of "Sport 40". Nothing intended against Phil or his boat, I like his boats.

Thanks. Brad.

Titan Racing Components

BlackJack Hydros

I do see your point. And this is one of the holes in the rule. Namba has a minmium transom width and I am sure that your boat fits that rule. All of my boat fit the same "Phil Thomas" class also and if you follow the rules this is the way they come out. The rule could be twik a little by changing to say "minmium transom width will be ____, and the lowest part of the rear chine must connect to the inside edge of the sponson's transom.

 

[Grimracer]

Greg..

So so true..its easy to overlook the intent of the class in the effort to be "innovative". That is really what we have here.

I hear,,…. we need progress and be innovative in sport 20 .. REALY!.. ya really think so..do you really think it will make the “Class Better”!!! Na.!.. does the class SUCK that much!..Let face it.. it comes from want an upper hand.. A WIN!!!.. make a new class if you want a run away win… or run the things in B hydro.. Start beating up a stick boat with a closed boat and its going to take innovation to do it…

One thing we dont seem to do well is list the intent of the classes we create. I know this to be TRUE in Sport 21 Tunnel.. Beginners class right! (SO FAR FROM THE TRUTH).. Box Stock class right!!!.. na.. not that either.. Only a few really know...

Grim

 

[P THOMAS]

Greg..
So so true..its easy to overlook the intent of the class in the effort to be "innovative". That is really what we have here.

I hear,,…. we need progress and be innovative in sport 20 .. REALY!.. ya really think so..do you really think it will make the “Class Better”!!! Na.!.. does the class SUCK that much!..Let face it.. it comes from want an upper hand.. A WIN!!!.. make a new class if you want a run away win… or run the things in B hydro.. Start beating up a stick boat with a closed boat and its going to take innovation to do it…

One thing we dont seem to do well is list the intent of the classes we create. I know this to be TRUE in Sport 21 Tunnel.. Beginners class right! (SO FAR FROM THE TRUTH).. Box Stock class right!!!.. na.. not that either.. Only a few really know...

Grim

The look of the sport boat is to me more important than just a hull that meets the rule too.

the mod rigger rule was probally aimed at the performance limits but now it seems to be that and how it looks also.

Just like to see rules based on the KISS principle.

If that rigger defining rule is in the book that would solve our problem with the thingy looking boats, but it didnt seem too clear to me. Guess I need pictures HA

As for a Phil Thomas class no thanks I like to see some different looking boats.

At this point of time the sportclass has been run and developed. Some of these designs and setups have been evolving for quite some time and it really would be hard for someone to build a new boat that meets the rule and wipe out the compitition. so good luck with that.

 

[TERMINATOR]

Greg..
So so true..its easy to overlook the intent of the class in the effort to be "innovative". That is really what we have here.

I hear,,…. we need progress and be innovative in sport 20 .. REALY!.. ya really think so..do you really think it will make the "Class Better"!!! Na.!.. does the class SUCK that much!..Let face it.. it comes from want an upper hand.. A WIN!!!.. make a new class if you want a run away win… or run the things in B hydro.. Start beating up a stick boat with a closed boat and its going to take innovation to do it…

One thing we dont seem to do well is list the intent of the classes we create. I know this to be TRUE in Sport 21 Tunnel.. Beginners class right! (SO FAR FROM THE TRUTH).. Box Stock class right!!!.. na.. not that either.. Only a few really know...

Grim

i would like to agree with you and greg..but you are the same two people that motavated me to build my own hull after looking at your sport 20 and gregs at mendota..which as you know are custom made hulls.. you guys must have seen something missing in the class or wanted to do your own thing .. so you made your own . that in my mind is what the class should be about, some minimal guidlines and go racing, if the design sucks ..cut it up and heat the shop a bit while you build another. there is nothing wrong with the class the way it is..and i think if a design comes along and is a little different..well let it sort itself out and see what happens. after all these are toy boats being played with by the biggest kids in the world..

terry

 

[Mark Bullard]

Greg..
So so true..its easy to overlook the intent of the class in the effort to be "innovative". That is really what we have here.

I hear,,…. we need progress and be innovative in sport 20 .. REALY!.. ya really think so..do you really think it will make the "Class Better"!!! Na.!.. does the class SUCK that much!..Let face it.. it comes from want an upper hand.. A WIN!!!.. make a new class if you want a run away win… or run the things in B hydro.. Start beating up a stick boat with a closed boat and its going to take innovation to do it…

One thing we dont seem to do well is list the intent of the classes we create. I know this to be TRUE in Sport 21 Tunnel.. Beginners class right! (SO FAR FROM THE TRUTH).. Box Stock class right!!!.. na.. not that either.. Only a few really know...

Grim

i would like to agree with you and greg..but you are the same two people that motavated me to build my own hull after looking at your sport 20 and gregs at mendota..which as you know are custom made hulls.. you guys must have seen something missing in the class or wanted to do your own thing .. so you made your own . that in my mind is what the class should be about, some minimal guidlines and go racing, if the design sucks ..cut it up and heat the shop a bit while you build another. there is nothing wrong with the class the way it is..and i think if a design comes along and is a little different..well let it sort itself out and see what happens. after all these are toy boats being played with by the biggest kids in the world..

terry

I agree also on innovation, but there are limits. And a boat of this class has to be built in those limits. I am one to explore those limits and ideas also. My second generation sport 20 is a good runner and fits in those limits. It is not the best corner turner in the world or maybe it's the driver but straight-away speed is as good as most 20 hydro's. I have ran the boat in 20 hydro and beat a lot of good running boats. Phil, Greg and I have had some great racing in Evansville and a lot of the times it was who controled the course. My third generation boat is still to be run but I have no doubt that it will be better that the second generation. Go ahead and finish the boat. Put some rear sponsons on it and run it in 20 hydro. I can tell by looking at it if the front angles are right the boat will be fast and maybe faster than most. A 20 motor needs all the help it can get from a boat. And this boat may pack just enough air under it to allow the motor unload and use up all the prop it can stand.

 

[Greg Hahn]

Greg..
So so true..its easy to overlook the intent of the class in the effort to be "innovative". That is really what we have here.

I hear,,…. we need progress and be innovative in sport 20 .. REALY!.. ya really think so..do you really think it will make the "Class Better"!!! Na.!.. does the class SUCK that much!..Let face it.. it comes from want an upper hand.. A WIN!!!.. make a new class if you want a run away win… or run the things in B hydro.. Start beating up a stick boat with a closed boat and its going to take innovation to do it…

One thing we dont seem to do well is list the intent of the classes we create. I know this to be TRUE in Sport 21 Tunnel.. Beginners class right! (SO FAR FROM THE TRUTH).. Box Stock class right!!!.. na.. not that either.. Only a few really know...

Grim

i would like to agree with you and greg..but you are the same two people that motavated me to build my own hull after looking at your sport 20 and gregs at mendota..which as you know are custom made hulls.. you guys must have seen something missing in the class or wanted to do your own thing .. so you made your own . that in my mind is what the class should be about, some minimal guidlines and go racing, if the design sucks ..cut it up and heat the shop a bit while you build another. there is nothing wrong with the class the way it is..and i think if a design comes along and is a little different..well let it sort itself out and see what happens. after all these are toy boats being played with by the biggest kids in the world..

terry

Terry,

don't ever take my comments as being nevative towards you or anyone else. I totally commend you for diving into the task of being creative and innovative. I know just how much work that can be and also know the satisfaction that comes with success which makes it all worth the effort. I guess where I was going with my comments is the fact that my boat isn't as innovative as you may think. Yes it's a custom made boat but In keeping with what I interpreted as the "intent of the class" it's basically a small version of a 70's style scale boat with all the parts still attached. It has a full length air trap, sponsons, deck, strut, full width transom. I changed the non-trip angles, offset the center, increased the sponson angles, built in some camber and played with the weight and ballance, but the boat is all still there.

Be proud of what you have accomplished, it looks great and can't wait to see it run.

gh

 

[Greg Hahn]

Greg..
So so true..its easy to overlook the intent of the class in the effort to be "innovative". That is really what we have here.

I hear,,…. we need progress and be innovative in sport 20 .. REALY!.. ya really think so..do you really think it will make the “Class Better”!!! Na.!.. does the class SUCK that much!..Let face it.. it comes from want an upper hand.. A WIN!!!.. make a new class if you want a run away win… or run the things in B hydro.. Start beating up a stick boat with a closed boat and its going to take innovation to do it…

One thing we dont seem to do well is list the intent of the classes we create. I know this to be TRUE in Sport 21 Tunnel.. Beginners class right! (SO FAR FROM THE TRUTH).. Box Stock class right!!!.. na.. not that either.. Only a few really know...

Grim

The look of the sport boat is to me more important than just a hull that meets the rule too.

the mod rigger rule was probally aimed at the performance limits but now it seems to be that and how it looks also.

Just like to see rules based on the KISS principle.

If that rigger defining rule is in the book that would solve our problem with the thingy looking boats, but it didnt seem too clear to me. Guess I need pictures HA

As for a Phil Thomas class no thanks I like to see some different looking boats.

At this point of time the sportclass has been run and developed. Some of these designs and setups have been evolving for quite some time and it really would be hard for someone to build a new boat that meets the rule and wipe out the compitition. so good luck with that.

IMHO, the easiest way to eliminate the question of modified rigger or not would be to require a minimum amount of air trap. Say 25 or 30% OAL??

just an idea

gh

 

[Mike Betke]

Well I've been away for a few days and WOW. All I can say is that the way the rules are written we can all agree to disagree.We can interpret these written rules many ways. If we want to better define everything, these rules should be put into some sort of drawing to clearly define what is meant. It should also be agreed upon by all of the members.

I think my hull is legal. I built my boat with the Sport intention. I cut the non trips in farther and angled them to the rear of the hull. I got the idea after looking at the back of my shovel nose scale one day. I guess that boat would be illegal as a sport boat too.

 

[SCOTT WITHERELL]

There was another topic posted awile back on (has sponson and hull desigh hit it's peek)I thought it was a very good topic,NEW Inovation on hull and sponson desighn's now a day's is still at the tip of the Iceberg ,there is still alot of Inovation to be done with out ,cutting up the rules on a specified class.On my boat's, I went with a full front canard and still staying in the 25% air trap with front canards,or split canard's(still yet to see a sponson ride pad have triple steps,witch are not specified in the sport rules on how many step that can be on a sponson bottom.There is still a lot to be innovated on the sport boats classes with out pushing the rules.I like sport class because it's more presteages than flat out full throtal balls to the wall racing. My faverate finishe's are when, on the last lap ,on the last corner,3 of us sport 20's are 1-3 boat lenght apart coming up the front streach. Look at the open nitro cat ,I remember we had to run with them with the riggers,hads down ,we had are A-- handed to us,ever sence they seperated the class,the open nitro cat is one of the most popular classes with some of the greatest finishes you can see.There is a fine line between" inovation and modificaion".Still like to see a weight limit on sport boat's to keep the playing feild even.Like the rules for the sport class just the way they are ,they just need to be more clarifed.still like to see a weight limit,LOL.(that's just me).The one pic is my sport 20 hull in the rooster tail,and a phil tomas sport 20 up front,I was catching him,slowly but shurly,but at the end his hull beat me by a 1/2 a boat length ,that was one heck of a race,me and the other driver joke and talk all about it all nigh after saturdays race around the camp fire."now thats racing" ,can't get any better than that.YEA it can just more finishes like that!!!!.

 

[SCOTT WITHERELL]

More inovations,my sport 40,an enlarged virgin of my sport 20,has carbon fiber ride pads that come off and can be changed to increase the angle of attack up to 8 degrees to 0 degrees.the nontrip sponson sides have dubble steps on the them like the big boy's.but the hull it self stayes 100% to the rules.I like the Phil Tomas Stealth Cowl better on it, than mine.

My epoxy molded sport 20,is a little heavy,RTR 6 1/2 lb's,can make it lighter,but I sacrafice strength.nothin worse than some one retreving my hull i made light and have them pick it up out of the water and have them put there thumb though the hull deck.because I made it so thin to keep it light.(mybe it's my building techneaq.(boy my spelling stinks.I know spell check,do not have time ,want to type what I have in my head LOL.

Oh yea ,like my vacumme machine for making cowl's(food saver machine)

 

[TERMINATOR]

Greg..
So so true..its easy to overlook the intent of the class in the effort to be "innovative". That is really what we have here.

I hear,,…. we need progress and be innovative in sport 20 .. REALY!.. ya really think so..do you really think it will make the "Class Better"!!! Na.!.. does the class SUCK that much!..Let face it.. it comes from want an upper hand.. A WIN!!!.. make a new class if you want a run away win… or run the things in B hydro.. Start beating up a stick boat with a closed boat and its going to take innovation to do it…

One thing we dont seem to do well is list the intent of the classes we create. I know this to be TRUE in Sport 21 Tunnel.. Beginners class right! (SO FAR FROM THE TRUTH).. Box Stock class right!!!.. na.. not that either.. Only a few really know...

Grim

i would like to agree with you and greg..but you are the same two people that motavated me to build my own hull after looking at your sport 20 and gregs at mendota..which as you know are custom made hulls.. you guys must have seen something missing in the class or wanted to do your own thing .. so you made your own . that in my mind is what the class should be about, some minimal guidlines and go racing, if the design sucks ..cut it up and heat the shop a bit while you build another. there is nothing wrong with the class the way it is..and i think if a design comes along and is a little different..well let it sort itself out and see what happens. after all these are toy boats being played with by the biggest kids in the world..

terry

Terry,

don't ever take my comments as being nevative towards you or anyone else. I totally commend you for diving into the task of being creative and innovative. I know just how much work that can be and also know the satisfaction that comes with success which makes it all worth the effort. I guess where I was going with my comments is the fact that my boat isn't as innovative as you may think. Yes it's a custom made boat but In keeping with what I interpreted as the "intent of the class" it's basically a small version of a 70's style scale boat with all the parts still attached. It has a full length air trap, sponsons, deck, strut, full width transom. I changed the non-trip angles, offset the center, increased the sponson angles, built in some camber and played with the weight and ballance, but the boat is all still there.

Be proud of what you have accomplished, it looks great and can't wait to see it run.

gh

greg in no way did i take anything you or grim said as negitive bud.. at all.. all i was kinda trying to do was point out to others here that ..the idea to me is to design and build and i did not mean to make it seem like i was saying "well you and grim can do it so can i and mine should be legal"..lol and you will see it run hopefully here really soon ..good boating

terry

 

[Bill Gibson]

This has been a GREAT topic...so much discussion.. hope no one was offended ......everyone is entitled to thier own view point as to what a sport hydro class should be about so here is mine...doesnt mean that its right, just mine...to me its the one class that should allow one to use thier imagination not only for performance but for APPEARENCE..to replicate boats of the PAST and PRESENT...the last thing it should be is any kind of spec class, and the reason for having a sport class is to build a boat that looks something like a REAL boat without the challanges of building a SCALE boat. If the class is about nothing but performance then we should all race riggers..ive got nothing against outriggers..raced em for years and im presently building a new 20 hydro..BUT ive shown my outriggers to people who are new to model boats and they dont even know what they are looking at!!! But when they see a sport boat,even a modern one they know its a boat....regarding the rules, perhaps more research should be done by looking at the thousands of pictures that are out there of full size limited and unlimited 3 point hydroplane designs that have come and gone through the years...we gotta have rules and i respect that, but not rules that limit the imagination to the point where we have another class where ho hum...they all look the same.

 

[TERMINATOR]

This has been a GREAT topic...so much discussion.. hope no one was offended ......everyone is entitled to thier own view point as to what a sport hydro class should be about so here is mine...doesnt mean that its right, just mine...to me its the one class that should allow one to use thier imagination not only for performance but for APPEARENCE..to replicate boats of the PAST and PRESENT...the last thing it should be is any kind of spec class, and the reason for having a sport class is to build a boat that looks something like a REAL boat without the challanges of building a SCALE boat. If the class is about nothing but performance then we should all race riggers..ive got nothing against outriggers..raced em for years and im presently building a new 20 hydro..BUT ive shown my outriggers to people who are new to model boats and they dont even know what they are looking at!!! But when they see a sport boat,even a modern one they know its a boat....regarding the rules, perhaps more research should be done by looking at the thousands of pictures that are out there of full size limited and unlimited 3 point hydroplane designs that have come and gone through the years...we gotta have rules and i respect that, but not rules that limit the imagination to the point where we have another class where ho hum...they all look the same.

just finished making the tank and all linkages and mounting everything except the woods shaft oiler and it come in at a weight of 4 pounds 1 ounce no fuel.. and it is not sealed.. i expect about 6 oz of clear, paint, and sealing epoxy... what are some other ready to run weights on sport 20 boats.. and now that i am here it will leave to be inspected.. hopefully get it back by mid may to race in its first race..lol

terry