LSO Rules

[drobie]

You're all right and wrong.

The 4 most popular classes at the biggest NAMBA racer ever:

P Offshore

LSH

P Sport Hydro

O Sport

(The above had over 50% of registered races entered, the next group had about 50%.)

Followed by

N2 Mono

P Mono

N2 Hydro

Q Offshore

N2 Offshore

N1 Mono

There is a 20% drop in registration to the next group of classes with less than half of the racers entering the rest of the lineup.

 

[drobie]

If you really want it fair and competetive then have the motors picked by lottery.I have seen to many speed and quality variants in an SS1.  They are easy to Dyno and get equall motors.

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In theory yes.

In practice....show us some evidence that dyno screened, handpicked 700 motors give an advantage that directly affect race result.

Or to put it another way, what do Dick Crowe, Chris Costanza, Charlie Toms, Dennis Whitt, Chris Fine, Ron Green, Pete Boyle, Doug Twaits, Jeff Cirves, Dan Proulx and Larry Caputo have in common?

Nothing, except that they had podium finishes at various races in LSH is recent years.

 

[Kevin Whitehead]

Or to put it another way, what do Dick Crowe, Chris Costanza, Charlie Toms, Dennis Whitt, Chris Fine, Ron Green, Pete Boyle, Doug Twaits, Jeff Cirves, Dan Proulx and Larry Caputo have in common?

Nothing, except that they had podium finishes at various races in LSH is recent years.

Doug, you should get a ten yard penalty for misuse of statistics.

Unless all of them ran, at every one of the races you are talking about, it neither proves or disproves anything at all.

KW

 

[AlanN]

This whole LSO thing is a big LOS thing to me.

It's a club level thing. Each club should dictate what hulls/cells/motors they want to run. Drobie knows how I feel and I hope no bad feelings come of this but if you want a true spec/NASCAR/entry level class than KISS. IMO for it to be a spec class everyone should run the exact same thing...hull/can/prop/cells. Store bought CEN stuff for exaple would be good. And just to make sure noone tweaks or tunes anything up....trade hulls each heat or event.

You want newbies?

You want seasoned racers?

I think your trying to accomodate too much.

 

[drobie]

Or to put it another way, what do Dick Crowe, Chris Costanza, Charlie Toms, Dennis Whitt, Chris Fine, Ron Green, Pete Boyle, Doug Twaits, Jeff Cirves, Dan Proulx and Larry Caputo have in common?

Nothing, except that they had podium finishes at various races in LSH is recent years.

Doug, you should get a ten yard penalty for misuse of statistics.

Unless all of them ran, at every one of the races you are talking about, it neither proves or disproves anything at all.

KW

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Yes Kevin, thank you for pointing out the error of my ways.

However, the point I was trying to make is that there are many other things to consider before we have to worry about a drill motor consipiracy corrupting the 700 classes.

Alan, you don't have to run the class and very few are going to choose it over S or T Offshore or 1/8 scale.

 

[photohoward1]

700 can motors are a dog a pony show. The tested motors have ponies and the rest are dogs.

You start racing these motors and you will go through a few till you find good combos.

i know guys on this board that went through 3 or 4 motors before they found one that worked well.

The same factory guys always seem to have the fastest boats.

Enough of my wining though. The fastest growing class at the nats was probably 1/8th scale.

This is not an economy hobby. Big fast boats sell-it.

:unsure:

 

[Paul Pachmayer]

Hey Guys,

You start racing these motors and you will go through a few till you find good combos.

The same factory guys always seem to have the fastest boats.

Hmm, I wish I was on the list of guys that get cherry picked 700 motors. My SS1 is over 3 years old, it's rusty, dirty, comm looks nasty and has epoxy spilled all over it. Was in the first LSH boat to break 50 MPH. It also keeps me in the hunt in any LSH race.

I've said this before and I'll say it again, "I will use any new SS1 handed me and still have a fast boat". I pull my motors out of the tube and beat the snot out of them, no 12 hour break ins, no water dunking, no BS.

Paul.

 

[Kevin Whitehead]

Hey Guys,

You start racing these motors and you will go through a few till you find good combos.

The same factory guys always seem to have the fastest boats.

Hmm, I wish I was on the list of guys that get cherry picked 700 motors. My SS1 is over 3 years old, it's rusty, dirty, comm looks nasty and has epoxy spilled all over it. Was in the first LSH boat to break 50 MPH. It also keeps me in the hunt in any LSH race.

I've said this before and I'll say it again, "I will use any new SS1 handed me and still have a fast boat". I pull my motors out of the tube and beat the snot out of them, no 12 hour break ins, no water dunking, no BS.

Paul.

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So, you have one lucky motor (from over three years ago) that you save for racing?

By your own words you don't "pull my motors out of the tube and beat the snot out of them, no 12 hour break ins, no water dunking, no BS" and race them.

That makes a minimum of two motors need, one to test and one to race. How many have you gone through in the last 4-5 years?

Come on you're know to push stuff beyond its capacity! :lol:

KW

 

[drobie]

Alright, we can all assume that manufacturing discrepancies create motors with plus or minus 10% variance in quality.

Show me some evidence that finding the best motor has been a factor in the results of any LSH race anywhere since the class was founded 4 or 5 years ago.

 

[crowebar]

Howard,

Your arguement for handpicked motors going to select drivers is just as accurate as my call that you had a 2 lap penalty in the last heat of T Offshore. Only one problem, The boat that I saw was a yellow cat and when I asked who's boat the yellow cat was I was told it was yours by someone with even less information!!!!! See how well that worked? Kind of like people who don't race 700's commenting on something they don't know anything about.

So, I'm about to be as passionate about SS1's as you were about the T Offshore heat and we're both right respectively.

I've bought 4 SS1's now and 1 is shot, some short somewhere. The rest are the same. I've got an airplane prop, What meter and was all fired up to put the best of the three motors I had left in my boat for the nats. THEY WERE ALL THE SAME.

Maybe I have the lucky 3? If that's the case then the rest of our club gets all the handpiced motors too. There are at least 3 boats in my club that are faster then mine in the straights, but none are faster in the corners. It's all in the setup, not the motors. The people that want to blame loosing on the motor are just wasting time that they should be spending on setup.

Why did I have 3 perfect heats in N2 Hydro or O Hydro and fast time in each class when everyone was running basically the same motor? Must be a handpicked hacker right? My first heat of O Hydro I ran 53 seconds with a nemesis 8S that I won in a raffle. A mistake. I had been testing the Hacker 8S in another boat and forgot to switch. The next heats with the Hacker were the same results. It's the setup Howard.

How's this. We've been running LSH with SS1's since the class began. I can honestly say that there is more parity in the SS1 then any other spec motor I've seen in all my years of this sport. You want parity in LSH, then do a battery handout cause the motor handout will be a big waste of time. They aren't like N1's which make a massacre out of the word parity. It's why the 700 class works.

Here's an idea, I'll bring my little dyno to the next big event and gladly test anyone motors against mine, I'm that confident that there is nothing to this handpicked crap. If there is I sure haven't had any problem running against anyone that might.

Howard and others, I'll jump on your bandwagon for just about anything else, You all impressed me to no end at nats and I have all the respect for you as racers. I even like Alan even though he hammers me every chance he get! I can't believe he hasn't taken a run at my name yet! And yes, I can be one at times!

Hang in there,

Dick

 

[brooks93]

I even like Alan even though he hammers me every chance he get!

Thats just because you don't know any better yet.. LMAO

Let him grow on you a bit longer..

 

[Pagemaster]

Alright, we can all assume that manufacturing discrepancies create motors with plus or minus 10% variance in quality.

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10% would be huge! Average rpm is about 1450rpm/v. So minus -10% about 1300rpm and +10 would be about 1600rpm/v. They are not that far off. Its more like couple of percent difference. Not enough to worry about unless its saw records your after.

 

[Paul Pachmayer]

Hi Kevin,

So, you have one lucky motor (from over three years ago) that you save for racing?

Nope, I have one motor period. I use it for everything that calls for a 700 motor. I have 2 new in the tube SS1s, one was won in a raffle and one was given to me. Both have never been touched, I bring one with me to the races in the event I grenade my old rusty one.

That makes a minimum of two motors need, one to test and one to race. How many have you gone through in the last 4-5 years?

If your talking SS1s I'm still on the original one I got from FDM. (before Chris knew who I was) So if you want to get down to brass tacks I haven't gone through any yet. The only 700 I've blown up was one of the old 8.4s, she come apart real good.lol

Guys, I'll tell you what. As far as my combos go wether BL or brushed all the stuff is used how it comes out of the package. I don't monkey around with timing on the controllers, all are on the softest settings.

Dick said it best, it's all in setup. Next race we're at come on over and look at my SS1, you'll see the motors never been cleaned, brush dust all over the place. It's a rat, lol. As a matter of fact if someone want's to hand me a new SS1 I'll give them the one out of my boat!

Paul.

 

[Paul Pachmayer]

Hey Steven,

10% would be huge! Average rpm is about 1450rpm/v. So minus -10% about 1300rpm and +10 would be about 1600rpm/v. They are not that far off. Its more like couple of percent difference. Not enough to worry about unless its saw records your after.

RPM Per Volt really doesn't matter for the SAWs or oval racing. (700 size) Key is propping to what you have on tap. You want RPM go for a Neo 700.

Paul.

 

[Pagemaster]

Hey Steven,

10% would be huge! Average rpm is about 1450rpm/v. So minus -10% about 1300rpm and +10 would be about 1600rpm/v. They are not that far off. Its more like couple of percent difference. Not enough to worry about unless its saw records your after.

RPM Per Volt really doesn't matter for the SAWs or oval racing. (700 size) Key is propping to what you have on tap. You want RPM go for a Neo 700.

Paul.

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Neo 700's are not my motor of choice. Not enough torque for the boats I run.

I know a bit about proping to what I have on tap. Did that with a 9xl in N2 offshore spinning a 57mm prop. 5th place with a boat that was twice as large and heavy as any on the pond. Now I just have to learn to drive better

 

[photohoward1]

OK I give up. This is starting to sound like the Red Board. Maybe I just don't like the 700 motors because for years Alan and i ran them in Our Key West Hulls.

I give up on the boards. Good advice or bad advice it is all taken to the extreme.

Have fun.... I am just going to race boats and keep trying to win.

No harm No foul. See some of you in Toronto. CAFE or the next Nats.

 

[drobie]

Aw heck Howard, we still love ya (and Alan too).

 

[AlanN]

Aw heck Howard, we still love ya (and Alan too).

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Awwww heck I leave for the weekend and come back to this....is this a discussion or a group hug! :huh:

Go on about your 700s..as D.R. put it...noones making me race it...have fun!

And Dick....I'll get around to some better insults later....gotta see my name in print first!

Go get em Howie!

 

[drobie]

And just for good measure, I'm going to dedicated my next survey to CAFE.

 

[brooks93]

oh yes we get our own poll or I mean survey.. LMAO