IMPBA "F" class

[dwilfong]

Don this is getting use no where. Just look at what is posted and lets all try and work this out.

This would be a win win for all concerned.

 

[Don Ferrette]

Any chance my question is worth a response Don?

Fire extinguishers have been standard requirements in the IMPBA hot pits for years now. As for your hypothetical stretch of a model boat fire in a retrieve boat, maybe you should just push it off into that stuff surrounding you called water, it's been one of the best fire fighting tools since the first cave man rubbed 2 sticks together.

Sure is interesting how there is this top of the lungs push for a rule change to allow something no one has even seen safely work yet. I'll tell you now that the IMPBA will take a wait and see approach at the very least so perhaps you guys might have more luck getting NAMBA to change their X class rules on an unseen idea.................

 

[dwilfong]

Will start the buzz her in FL and see what happens.

 

[Andy Greene]

I have spent more time in a retrieve boat than most!

Besides me-

Yeeeep - Look what that does to a guy - He got too much of that Riverview water on his hands that weekend, poor guy

Tohatsu outboard and all

 

[Andy Brown]

Any chance my question is worth a response Don?

Fire extinguishers have been standard requirements in the IMPBA hot pits for years now. As for your hypothetical stretch of a model boat fire in a retrieve boat, maybe you should just push it off into that stuff surrounding you called water, it's been one of the best fire fighting tools since the first cave man rubbed 2 sticks together.

Sure is interesting how there is this top of the lungs push for a rule change to allow something no one has even seen safely work yet. I'll tell you now that the IMPBA will take a wait and see approach at the very least so perhaps you guys might have more luck getting NAMBA to change their X class rules on an unseen idea.................

Thank you for the answer Don. But "hypothetical strectch"? I think not! I saw a guy bringing his electric cat to the shore line. It was smoking a little. Just seconds after he picked it up ..carried it up the bank and set it down on the stand it burst into flames. I can just see it now...the retrive boat operater 300' from shore, trying to pick up a 24 pound Cat that is already in the boat and engulfed in flames and toss it in the water. Maybe he does need that Fire suit?

And yes, the chances of hot electrics catching fire AFTER they have been retrived are greater than when it was running because the cooling has stopped.

I just want to make sure we look at this safety issue from the proper perspective....since it seems to be the MAIN issue. That's all.

 

[dwilfong]

Ya why pay for the name. the merk is the same eng with a diffrent sticker on it.

I have spent more time in a retrieve boat than most!

Besides me-
Yeeeep - Look what that does to a guy - He got too much of that Riverview water on his hands that weekend, poor guy
Tohatsu outboard and all

 

[dwilfong]

Hay Don I'm going to put a stick in it over on Jim's and see what I can stir up.

Give you a break for a little.

 

[mike walker]

I am a huge fan of nitro and I an not afraid of it. I think this could be really cool done correctly. I have a few years laying across two 4 5/8 bore cyl. full of the stuff. Be it a motorcycle or a car it is up to the driver or rider to disable the Ing. system before any one moves it. High nitro requires purge, blow down and total respect with spark. Do your thing and lets see what you come up with. Just be safe and keep in mind with high nitro and spark you have a bomb not a fire hazard it's a freakin bomb

 

[Andy Brown]

I am a huge fan of nitro and I an not afraid of it. I think this could be really cool done correctly. I have a few years laying across two 4 5/8 bore cyl. full of the stuff. Be it a motorcycle or a car it is up to the driver or rider to disable the Ing. system before any one moves it. High nitro requires purge, blow down and total respect with spark. Do your thing and lets see what you come up with. Just be safe and keep in mind with high nitro and spark you have a bomb not a fire hazard it's a freakin bomb

Good points Mike!

QuickDraw engines highly recommend the use of a transmitter controlled magneto kill switch. I think that would solve this Safety issue.

The "Bomb" effect is not such a problem in a single cylinder 2 stroke as it is in a multi cylinder 4 stroke type engine, because the single piston is not restrained by other cylinders. Also, the fuel can not fill the cylinder like a bucket because excess fuel drains out of the exhaust port.

Those of us who run hot plugs and very powerful glow plug lighters, know of the explosive effect of nitro in the cylinder, as they will often fire and sometimes even start running simply by connecting the glow lighter to the plug. I suppose if there was 4 ozs. of raw nirto in the pipe of a GLOW engine there could be an explosion in the pipe when the glow lighter is hooked up and starts off these unexpected firings. Pipe bomb???

However, there have not been any reports of this!

 

[mike walker]

Just asking cause truly don't know would you have to fire the engine on gas or alco. and then switch like we do the bikes

 

[Don Ferrette]

Any chance my question is worth a response Don?

Fire extinguishers have been standard requirements in the IMPBA hot pits for years now. As for your hypothetical stretch of a model boat fire in a retrieve boat, maybe you should just push it off into that stuff surrounding you called water, it's been one of the best fire fighting tools since the first cave man rubbed 2 sticks together.

Sure is interesting how there is this top of the lungs push for a rule change to allow something no one has even seen safely work yet. I'll tell you now that the IMPBA will take a wait and see approach at the very least so perhaps you guys might have more luck getting NAMBA to change their X class rules on an unseen idea.................

Thank you for the answer Don. But "hypothetical strectch"? I think not! I saw a guy bringing his electric cat to the shore line. It was smoking a little. Just seconds after he picked it up ..carried it up the bank and set it down on the stand it burst into flames. I can just see it now...the retrive boat operater 300' from shore, trying to pick up a 24 pound Cat that is already in the boat and engulfed in flames and toss it in the water. Maybe he does need that Fire suit?

And yes, the chances of hot electrics catching fire AFTER they have been retrived are greater than when it was running because the cooling has stopped.

I just want to make sure we look at this safety issue from the proper perspective....since it seems to be the MAIN issue. That's all.

Andy-

I haven't seen a 24 pound cat boat yet but if I'm in a retrieve boat and something starts catching on fire it's going back into the lake even if I have to shove it out with an oar. Maybe keeping a fire extinguisher in the retrieve boat is a good thing, matter of fact I'm going to add that to the D12 meeting agenda in 2 weeks to make it a requirement in our district, thanks for the idea. All that aside there is a big difference between something catching fire and something exploding. How familiar are you with nitro drag bikes? It's a rather relevant question since they are very similar in cylinder design and operation. There's a reason they require extra cylinder base bolts, extra head bolts, kevlar straps over each head, no cast engine cases or cast rods to name a few. Also the driver has to disable the ignition system at the end of a run before anyone is allowed to move the bike to prevent potential explosion of nitro filled cylinders. And that is something designed to run on nitro from the start.........

 

[RonShaw]

I have not read all of this and maybe I should keep my mouth shut, but as far as safety. There is no way I would want to go out and pick up a dead spark Ign. boat with the cyl. full of nitro. If it is ready to fire and is moved just right you have a face full of motor.

Don't worry Mike we'll just require all retrieve boat drivers to add a small degree of protective gear.

I do wonder. Does the IMPBA rules require a Fire extinguisher in the pick up boat?....especially for gas and electric. Never know when those Lipos may burst into flames.

LOL.........

 

[John Beardslee]

All that protection is for the rider but only because the engine is between his/her legs!! I'd want some protection there also if it were me. If I had to pickup boats with engines screaming and place them between my legs I'd surely want extra protection. Maybe even a titanium cup!

 

[Andy Brown]

Any chance my question is worth a response Don?

Fire extinguishers have been standard requirements in the IMPBA hot pits for years now. As for your hypothetical stretch of a model boat fire in a retrieve boat, maybe you should just push it off into that stuff surrounding you called water, it's been one of the best fire fighting tools since the first cave man rubbed 2 sticks together.

Sure is interesting how there is this top of the lungs push for a rule change to allow something no one has even seen safely work yet. I'll tell you now that the IMPBA will take a wait and see approach at the very least so perhaps you guys might have more luck getting NAMBA to change their X class rules on an unseen idea.................

Thank you for the answer Don. But "hypothetical strectch"? I think not! I saw a guy bringing his electric cat to the shore line. It was smoking a little. Just seconds after he picked it up ..carried it up the bank and set it down on the stand it burst into flames. I can just see it now...the retrive boat operater 300' from shore, trying to pick up a 24 pound Cat that is already in the boat and engulfed in flames and toss it in the water. Maybe he does need that Fire suit?

And yes, the chances of hot electrics catching fire AFTER they have been retrived are greater than when it was running because the cooling has stopped.

I just want to make sure we look at this safety issue from the proper perspective....since it seems to be the MAIN issue. That's all.

Andy-

I haven't seen a 24 pound cat boat yet but if I'm in a retrieve boat and something starts catching on fire it's going back into the lake even if I have to shove it out with an oar. Maybe keeping a fire extinguisher in the retrieve boat is a good thing, matter of fact I'm going to add that to the D12 meeting agenda in 2 weeks to make it a requirement in our district, thanks for the idea. All that aside there is a big difference between something catching fire and something exploding. How familiar are you with nitro drag bikes? It's a rather relevant question since they are very similar in cylinder design and operation. There's a reason they require extra cylinder base bolts, extra head bolts, kevlar straps over each head, no cast engine cases or cast rods to name a few. Also the driver has to disable the ignition system at the end of a run before anyone is allowed to move the bike to prevent potential explosion of nitro filled cylinders. And that is something designed to run on nitro from the start.........

Don wrote: "Maybe keeping a fire extinguisher in the retrieve boat is a good thing, matter of fact I'm going to add that to the D12 meeting agenda in 2 weeks to make it a requirement in our district, thanks for the idea."No problem Don! I'm happy to help! Below is a little info I found on Lipo Fires. Some of this info is directly from an MSDS for a Lithim Polymer battery.

Electirc boat classes are growing and you may actullay see a big one in your district one day.

"The only type of Fire Extinguisher that will work on LiPo Fires is the new Class D (Yellow) Extinguisher. The problem is they are vary expensive. They average around $400.00 each."
"In case of fire where lithium ion batteries are present, flood the area with water. If any batteries are burning, water may not extinguish them, but will cool the adjacent batteries and control the spread of fire. CO2, dry chemical, and foam extinguishers are preferred for small fires, but also may not extinguish burning lithium ion batteries. Burning batteries will burn themselves out. Virtually all fires involving lithium ion batteries can be controlled with water. When water is used, however, hydrogen gas may be evolved which can form an explosive mixture with air. LITH-X (powdered graphite) or copper powder fire extinguishers, sand, dry ground dolomite or soda ash may also be used. These materials act as smothering agents."

"Note that the water route probably won't put out the fire, but it will keep adjacent batteries cool, perhaps keeping them from joining the fray.I'd say water is out.Then note that common CO2, dry chemical, and foam extinguishers -- ABC types, also probably won't put out the battery fire, but can control the other stuff around the burning battery.Left to themselves, the batteries don't burn LONG, but they DO burn HOT. Very HOT, and very explosively. Look around the web for movies, they're quite informative. A short, hot burst that in and of itself is scary, but if the battery is contained in a non-flammable environment, short lived. It's the other stuff that catches on fire in response to the battery fire that is the bigger problem."

 

[Ricky Miller]

Keep in mind these boats are some combination of wood and resin, which will also burn.........

 

[bzubee]

Any chance my question is worth a response Don?

Fire extinguishers have been standard requirements in the IMPBA hot pits for years now. As for your hypothetical stretch of a model boat fire in a retrieve boat, maybe you should just push it off into that stuff surrounding you called water, it's been one of the best fire fighting tools since the first cave man rubbed 2 sticks together.

Sure is interesting how there is this top of the lungs push for a rule change to allow something no one has even seen safely work yet. I'll tell you now that the IMPBA will take a wait and see approach at the very least so perhaps you guys might have more luck getting NAMBA to change their X class rules on an unseen idea.................

Thank you for the answer Don. But "hypothetical strectch"? I think not! I saw a guy bringing his electric cat to the shore line. It was smoking a little. Just seconds after he picked it up ..carried it up the bank and set it down on the stand it burst into flames. I can just see it now...the retrive boat operater 300' from shore, trying to pick up a 24 pound Cat that is already in the boat and engulfed in flames and toss it in the water. Maybe he does need that Fire suit?

And yes, the chances of hot electrics catching fire AFTER they have been retrived are greater than when it was running because the cooling has stopped.

I just want to make sure we look at this safety issue from the proper perspective....since it seems to be the MAIN issue. That's all.

Andy an even higher power than IMPBA reqiures all water craft to have a fire extingisher, like the state water patrol and the USCG!

 

[bzubee]

Plus we still have racers that think it's okay to smoke while fueling thier gas boats because they have done it all of their lives and nothing has happened

!

 

[dwilfong]

So I guess I should not have my cig in my mouth as I purge my eng and it covers my face with nitro?

 

[John Beardslee]

Hi David,

I remember a period of hysteria years ago about nitro methane and watching Ron Logghe demonstrating that it was very hard to light. He lit a match and put it out in straight nitro. Not a good idea to do with our alcohol - nitro blend fuel though. As with our glow engines, I think one of the major weak spots of an ignition engine running alky, nitro based fuel will be the "spark plug". It's been a long time since I've seen a spark plug out of a top fuel dragster or funny car but I'd bet they still only get one run on them and they come out of the engine like a melted blob.

Thanks, John

 

[dwilfong]

John

Yes I have put a cig out in a can full of gas many times to prove a point.

love the reaction it gets.

kinda like a duck and cover you learned as a kid in school.

You know it is not like theses bigger eng will take to much nitro and come apart. Thy will fail at some point but it wont be the total nuclear melt down that all the naysayers think.

The most that will be needed is 20% to make killer power.

That will be more than enough to push any small boat to the limits of stability.

Just doing higher CR and timing with just a small amount of nitro to get the head temps up will give a great boost in power.

Ask the guys racing Go peds if thy have hade any nuclear explosions

Every one acts as this has not bin done with this kind of eng before.

Well I hate to tell you all but this is not new. It is only new to you.