IMPBA & AMA Discussion

[Wesleys Custom RC]

From what I’ve read in this thread, the only people that had any knowledge that this was in the works are people from up north. No one I’ve talked to down here in TX knew about this.

When something like this is being considered, it's usually best for a few people to do the leg work, get all the facts, build a proposal and THEN open it up for discussion. That way, the facts can be presented to everyone. If you try to discuss it before the facts are all documented, people prejudge the idea based on misinformation. Examples in this thread include the cost of dues for family members and whether insurance for pond owners is primary or secondary.

We elect people to do the groundwork for things like this. Perhaps we should have a little faith that they are competent and wait for them to do their jobs? Once their proposal is made public then we can start discussing and asking questions.

Ya! , What he said. That's what I was trying to say but did a crappy job of saying it....thanks Buckshot.

 

[piper_chuck]

From what I’ve read in this thread, the only people that had any knowledge that this was in the works are people from up north. No one I’ve talked to down here in TX knew about this.

When something like this is being considered, it's usually best for a few people to do the leg work, get all the facts, build a proposal and THEN open it up for discussion. That way, the facts can be presented to everyone. If you try to discuss it before the facts are all documented, people prejudge the idea based on misinformation. Examples in this thread include the cost of dues for family members and whether insurance for pond owners is primary or secondary.

We elect people to do the groundwork for things like this. Perhaps we should have a little faith that they are competent and wait for them to do their jobs? Once their proposal is made public then we can start discussing and asking questions.

Ya! , What he said. That's what I was trying to say but did a crappy job of saying it....thanks Buckshot.

Some of this discussion reminds me of the

 

[David Homer]

I've been inactive now for several years due to a combination of household finances and lack of places to run... Years ago I suggested the model boating organizations take a long look at the AMA as the example of what works. I have always believed we should have adopted a running site procurement program along the lines of AMA's flying site assistance. Without local places to run this hobby simply will not grow.

I see we are still stuck on that word "racing". How many times have we griped about uninsured sport boaters getting into accidents and incidents making it more difficult for our organizations' members to get and keep running sites. Years ago I tried to organize model boaters locally. I had a mail/phone list of about 30 people. Three of us had any racing experience. Most of these folks had absolutely no desire to race. They just wanted a local safe place to go run. I tried like hell, but IMPBA membership was an impossible sell to these folks.

AMA's membership is predominantly sport (recreational) flyers who have no intention to compete with their models. I'm thinking a bit outside the box here, but I feel it is necessary to bring sport boaters into an insured, safety regulated running environment. Encourage these folks to join AMA, adopt some common sense rules of operation, and make an effort to procure local running sites. If for some reason these folks want to compete, THEN make 'em join IMPBA.

I know this is an oversimplification, but it may be a way for the two organizations to find some common ground.

 

[Ron Olson]

OK, back ot square one. This thread was the first that I saw of any IMPBA/AMA merger talks. No other R/C boat forum site that I'm a member of (and that's a lot of them) have I seen any talks on this subject.

What I don't like so far is that IF it happened and we became a SIG of the AMA it appears that we would still have to pay dues to not only the AMA but to the IMPBA also. Sure, you wouldn't have to pay for the insurance any more so IMPBA membership dues would be lowered.

As an aside, how are you doing Dave? I see your son a lot and he told me that you're not doing too hot. Call me sometime, I keep losing your phone number. I'm still in the phone book. We've got a place to run now!

 

[piper_chuck]

I've been inactive now for several years due to a combination of household finances and lack of places to run... Years ago I suggested the model boating organizations take a long look at the AMA as the example of what works. I have always believed we should have adopted a running site procurement program along the lines of AMA's flying site assistance. Without local places to run this hobby simply will not grow.
I see we are still stuck on that word "racing". How many times have we griped about uninsured sport boaters getting into accidents and incidents making it more difficult for our organizations' members to get and keep running sites. Years ago I tried to organize model boaters locally. I had a mail/phone list of about 30 people. Three of us had any racing experience. Most of these folks had absolutely no desire to race. They just wanted a local safe place to go run. I tried like hell, but IMPBA membership was an impossible sell to these folks.

AMA's membership is predominantly sport (recreational) flyers who have no intention to compete with their models. I'm thinking a bit outside the box here, but I feel it is necessary to bring sport boaters into an insured, safety regulated running environment. Encourage these folks to join AMA, adopt some common sense rules of operation, and make an effort to procure local running sites. If for some reason these folks want to compete, THEN make 'em join IMPBA.

I know this is an oversimplification, but it may be a way for the two organizations to find some common ground.

This is actually a very good plan. If AMA only focused on competition flying, it would be much smaller. Bringing together sport and competition boaters would increase the number of people to keep ponds and clubs going.

 

[piper_chuck]

OK, back ot square one. This thread was the first that I saw of any IMPBA/AMA merger talks. No other R/C boat forum site that I'm a member of (and that's a lot of them) have I seen any talks on this subject.

I hope nobody starts a thread in the AMA forum on RCU!

What I don't like so far is that IF it happened and we became a SIG of the AMA it appears that we would still have to pay dues to not only the AMA but to the IMPBA also. Sure, you wouldn't have to pay for the insurance any more so IMPBA membership dues would be lowered.

Yup, drastically lowered, if not entirely eliminated...

 

[bzubee]

Thanks Chuck!

 

[MarkScott]

One minor issue about the dues.. What about us folks that dished out the $$ for IMPBA Paid Life membership? Just wondering if that might roll over to AMA if IMPBA elimates membership dues.

 

[piper_chuck]

One minor issue about the dues.. What about us folks that dished out the $$ for IMPBA Paid Life membership? Just wondering if that might roll over to AMA if IMPBA elimates membership dues.

This is probably one of the negotiating points. AMA does have a life membership program.

 

[Bill-SOCAL]

Let me try to make this point again, AMA dues and any dues for being a member of the SIG are totally separate. One has nothing to do with the other. Not sure how IMPBA will account for life memberships, but I cannot see how AMA would be responsible for transferring that cost.

 

[MarkScott]

I cannot see how AMA would be responsible for transferring that cost.

Fully understand on the statement.. That is why I tossed out the thought to make us minority members (PL) remembered

 

[bzubee]

THat is one of our questions we have o get answered.

I cannot see how AMA would be responsible for transferring that cost.

Fully understand on the statement.. That is why I tossed out the thought to make us minority members (PL) are remembered

 

[Joe Warren]

Evidently not many IMPBA members remember that back when I was IMPBA President ( 1995-1998 ) Jim Irwin and I were trying to get AMA to consent to putting a lake on their property big enough to race model boats in. They had just moved to Muncie, Indiana from Reston, Virginia. They also had had some money to spend and even after the move were soliciting its membership to " help pay off the property in Muncie ". I still have a few different copies of AMA's " Master Plans " of what would be built on the property. BOTH of these include a lake for model boat racing. Jim Irwin had a friend in Muncie who was in the excavating and gravel business that agreed to dig a big enough lake on AMA's property FOR FREE...........ALL HE WANTED WAS WHAT HE DUG UP. This was to be connected to the existing pond next to their headquarters building, which I believe is spring fed. Jim and I would talk with one person in charge one week and be led to believe we had the okay to start the ball rolling and when the excavating guy went over to the property to take soil samples, etc. they would chase him away with different reasons. This happened on three separate occasions before Jim and I gave this up as a lost cause and a big waste of time. Jim and I even sat down with then AMA President Dave Brown and Executive Director Joyce Hager at the Toledo Show one year and thought we had things on the way to being ironed out but then the dirt guy got chased away for the third time and he finally said screw 'em. Jim lived right there in Muncie and talked with the AMA people on a regular basis. If you get the chance ask Jim how much they jerked HIM around. Back then IMPBA had about 2500 members and they didn't care about us. What makes you think they care about 1200 or 1300 members now?Someone needs to do what Priscilla and I did back in 1997 and do some serious shopping around for some good, affordable insurance. We saved IMPBA and its members more than $18,000 that next year in premiums. The dues need to be higher ( sorry, just a fact of life ) to keep up with the times and run IMPBA like the business it is and needs to be for it's members.

Forget AMA. You want to be part of AMA, go buy an airplane. Keep playing in this sandbox thats been around for almost sixty years.............it ain't broke, it just needs a little fixing.

Dick Tyndall

IMPBA 9407

AMA 12532 ( 1963-2001 )

DICK TYNDALL for Pres 2009!!! Amen Brother. The man said Just a lit fixen........ :blink:

 

[dr gary turner]

I have yet seen some answers to my earlier post. Will someone offer some answers.

The way we "DO IT" in my "O" scale railroad club in order to get INSURANCE for liability in order to have the layout in a large mall and theft insurance is the following:

1. Determine what it cost to operate our club.

2. All members of our club have to be members of NMRA.

3. You can be member of TCA LCA and etc, that is your personal choice.

4. We send one check to our club treasure for club dues and the dues for NMRA.

5.The secretary sends a check to NMRA for ALL of the club members and we get a membership card from NMRA. WE have to have 100% participation in order to have the insurance.

SOOOOOOO IMPBA determines their cost of a years operation without the cost of buying insurance and add to that the cost of AMA dues for the insurance. WE send one check to IMPBA and the secretary sends a check to AMA with the membership name list and we get our AMA card, IMPBA card and insurance. This methadology will insure 100% particiaption . GTT

 

[Bill-SOCAL]

WE send one check to IMPBA and the secretary sends a check to AMA with the membership name list and we get our AMA card, IMPBA card and insurance. This methadology will insure 100% particiaption . GTT

Except AMA does not work that way. Individual members have to complete and sign a separate AMA membership application so it would not be possible for IMPBA to submit a mass a[pplication or member list. AMA does not care if its members belong to any particular SIG, but they do require that all members of an AMA SIG be members of the AMA.

Every other SIG works this way. You send your annual AMA dues to Muncie, and then if you so desire to join a SIG you do that as a separate thing. Like I said, some SIGS do not even charge dues. Others do. And they are totally separate things.

 

[piper_chuck]

SOOOOOOO IMPBA determines their cost of a years operation without the cost of buying insurance and add to that the cost of AMA dues for the insurance. WE send one check to IMPBA and the secretary sends a check to AMA with the membership name list and we get our AMA card, IMPBA card and insurance. This methadology will insure 100% particiaption . GTT

As Bill said, each person does need to complete and sign the AMA membership application. This actually only needs to be done when joining for the first time. After that, you can renew online.

AMA provides an online verification page that clubs can use to confirm their members are current with AMA. This could be used by IMPBA. Alternatively, clubs could verify AMA membership before a person runs.

I'm curious what operating expenses IMPBA would have if insurance was handled via AMA membership?

 

[Wesleys Custom RC]

WE send one check to IMPBA and the secretary sends a check to AMA with the membership name list and we get our AMA card, IMPBA card and insurance. This methadology will insure 100% particiaption . GTT

Except AMA does not work that way. Individual members have to complete and sign a separate AMA membership application so it would not be possible for IMPBA to submit a mass a[pplication or member list. AMA does not care if its members belong to any particular SIG, but they do require that all members of an AMA SIG be members of the AMA.

Every other SIG works this way. You send your annual AMA dues to Muncie, and then if you so desire to join a SIG you do that as a separate thing. Like I said, some SIGS do not even charge dues. Others do. And they are totally separate things.

Excuse my ignorance Bill-SOCAL but are you on the board of the AMA or IMPBA? I'm not trying to be antagonistic, Just curious

 

[Bill-SOCAL]

Excuse my ignorance Bill-SOCAL but are you on the board of the AMA or IMPBA? I'm not trying to be antagonistic, Just curious

I am an AMA Leader Member and Associate Vice President for AMA District X (AZ, CA, HI, NV, UT). This is an appointed volunteer position that reports to the District VP. I represent the District VP within our District and function as an extension of him, sort of an "eyes & ears" thing. The District VP is an elected position and they comprise the AMA's Board of Directors (Executive Committee - EC).

I have been an AMA member for the better part of 40 years. I am a current or past member of several AMA Special Interest Groups (SIGs) [iMAC, LSF, IRCHA, NSRCA] and served as the Rules Chairman of one of them (IMAC).

I am also a member of NAMBA and race (gas & FE) in NAMBA District 19.

I am also a member of Team Futaba as a Field Representative.

As an aside, I have also served as a paid "expert witness" on three different legal liability cases involving models, including one involving a boat accident.

I live in Orange County, California. By profession I am a geologist and own a small environmental consulting firm which specializes in hazardous materials assessments and clean up.

My statements are my own and are not "official" AMA statements, however, they are based on my knowledge and experience working within the AMA and SIGs. However, I think I can say that they are an accurate representation of how the AMA relates to their existing SIGS.

So that's me.

 

[Mark Bullard]

WE send one check to IMPBA and the secretary sends a check to AMA with the membership name list and we get our AMA card, IMPBA card and insurance. This methadology will insure 100% particiaption . GTT

Except AMA does not work that way. Individual members have to complete and sign a separate AMA membership application so it would not be possible for IMPBA to submit a mass a[pplication or member list. AMA does not care if its members belong to any particular SIG, but they do require that all members of an AMA SIG be members of the AMA.

Every other SIG works this way. You send your annual AMA dues to Muncie, and then if you so desire to join a SIG you do that as a separate thing. Like I said, some SIGS do not even charge dues. Others do. And they are totally separate things.

So what this means is we pay AMA dues and then turn around and pay IMPBA dues. All we have to do is go up a little on our own dues and the problem is solved.

 

[Wesleys Custom RC]

Excuse my ignorance Bill-SOCAL but are you on the board of the AMA or IMPBA? I'm not trying to be antagonistic, Just curious

I am an AMA Leader Member and Associate Vice President for AMA District X (AZ, CA, HI, NV, UT). This is an appointed volunteer position that reports to the District VP. I represent the District VP within our District and function as an extension of him, sort of an "eyes & ears" thing. The District VP is an elected position and they comprise the AMA's Board of Directors (Executive Committee - EC).

I have been an AMA member for the better part of 40 years. I am a current or past member of several AMA Special Interest Groups (SIGs) [iMAC, LSF, IRCHA, NSRCA] and served as the Rules Chairman of one of them (IMAC).

I am also a member of NAMBA and race (gas & FE) in NAMBA District 19.

I am also a member of Team Futaba as a Field Representative.

As an aside, I have also served as a paid "expert witness" on three different legal liability cases involving models, including one involving a boat accident.

I live in Orange County, California. By profession I am a geologist and own a small environmental consulting firm which specializes in hazardous materials assessments and clean up.

My statements are my own and are not "official" AMA statements, however, they are based on my knowledge and experience working within the AMA and SIGs. However, I think I can say that they are an accurate representation of how the AMA relates to their existing SIGS.

So that's me.

A simple yes or no would work. Just wanted to make sure u aint as dumb as I look.......no, wait.....how does that go? Anyway, thanks for the info.