IMPBA & AMA Discussion

[Bill-SOCAL]

A simple yes or no would work. Just wanted to make sure u aint as dumb as I look.......no, wait.....how does that go? Anyway, thanks for the info.

I guess what I was trying to do was to show that I have a bit more knowledge than simply being a guy with an AMA card, but I am not in fact on the board of either group.

No worries, I like making sure people know what they are talking about and have no issues with being ask the basis for my posts.

 

[dr gary turner]

Some more history!!!!!!!!! The concept of a single site for the Nats will not work. It has been considered in the past.

Huntsville had the Nats two years in a row. When the third time rolled around people were complaining that they did not want to return to the SAME SITE!!!!!!

There is no better race site than Huntsville, excellent blacktop parking lot, grass set up area, large lake[excellent for time trials], great dirver stand, new concrete pit and launch area and also large, AIR CONDITIONED in door toilets and a covered area to hold a lake side buffet. With all of this people do not want to go to the same place for the Nats.

I am opposed to the merger because of the:

1. COST

2. Loosing our IDENTITY as a boat organization. AMA is for planes and all varieties of planes and plane activities

3. If there is a merger, it should be with a boat organization such as NAMBA.

4. Since it is going to cost a lot more for dues to be in both AMA and IMPBA, JUST RAISE THE DUES to cover the insurance as already has been suggested!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

5. I can see no logic in the merger. Dr Gary Turner, 30 year member of IMPBA and LIFE MEMBER

 

[Grimracer]

Doc... I disagree or don’t understand on all 5 points..

However just like your statement...this is just my thoughts. Help me out here..

I would rather pay more then nothing at all..I have concerns about the health of our org.. we almost did not have a nats this year.. it was REAL nip and tuck.. its better now but will it be in the future?

I can not see why the AMA would want our identity. Doc help me understand? I might be missing your point...

I feel joining boat orgs is a bad idea.. blaha blaha,..most know my stance on this

lets use the power of the AMA to help us grow and stabilize..

I can see logic in the IMPBA becoming a SIG

ROCK ON

Grim

 

[piper_chuck]

With all the reasons NOT to join AMA being mentioned, let's go back to some of the things AMA would give us.

1. Membership in an organization with thousands of R/C enthusiasts, many of whom are already interested in boating.
   
2. An end to worrying about trying to buy insurance.
   
3. Less restrictive insurance coverage than what we have now. AMA covers members when they are flying planes and helis, running cars, launching model rockets, or running boats wherever they do it, as long as they follow the AMA safety code.
   
4. Membership in an organization that does a huge amount of lobbying on behalf of the R/C hobby in general.
   
5. Access to use a magazine with a large circulation to promote R/C boating to a new audience.
   
6. If done right, nearly zero risk of losing our identity. We can maintain IMPBA as an independent, or nearly independent, organization and just rely on the infrastructure of AMA for insurance.
   

 

[Mark Bullard]

Doc... I disagree or don’t understand on all 5 points..
However just like your statement...this is just my thoughts. Help me out here..

I would rather pay more then nothing at all..I have concerns about the health of our org.. we almost did not have a nats this year.. it was REAL nip and tuck.. its better now but will it be in the future?

I can not see why the AMA would want our identity. Doc help me understand? I might be missing your point...

I feel joining boat orgs is a bad idea.. blaha blaha,..most know my stance on this

lets use the power of the AMA to help us grow and stabilize..

I can see logic in the IMPBA becoming a SIG

ROCK ON

Grim

Grim the reason that the nats are in trouble is the noise issue and what the board has done with the small few members that have supported this issue. I agree that the major large motors racers and other racers did not vote. The board should not have allow this rule to past with only 5 to 10 percent of the members voting. This was to important to allow this to happen to IMPBA. And us older boaters did go to sleep and allowed this to happen. None of the large motor boaters want to go to a Internats and be sent home after spending all of that money to have what happened in 2006 to happen again. Us big motor boaters run a lot of other boats also and it shows by the way that the entries have fallen in the past two years. Up until 2006 we had as many as 35 to 40 F hydro's and the same for F mono's. And we had as many as 25 twin's for that class. But we also bring all of the other classes also. How many have you had in the past two years? Look at Atlanta, Evansville in june, and Charleston this past week. Atlanta had over 300 boats, Evansville had over 200 boats, and Charleston had over 300 boats. And all of the who's, who's was there for these races. Now do I have to say why this was. The writing should be on the wall in bold letters. I can name you 10 racers that have over 100 boats between them that has not been to the nats in the past two years but have been to these races. And there is not doubt that these racers have spend more money than anyone to run quiet pipes and other devices to lower the noise. I myself have spent over $500 this past year. Has it work? Yes and no, it depends on what lake I am at. At Altanta and Charleston I am quiet but Evansville I am not. What does this tell you.

Now we have a few that want to join AMA because they think that it is a good idea. We have a lot of history and I can say that most of the present board members do not know the history. And if we allow this board to send this to the members for a vote we will destroy that 60 years of history of the IMPBA. That's right IMPBA will be 60 years old next year.

So for you members that think this is a good idea maybe need to go and talk to some older boaters on the history of IMPBA.

And yes I have been a member of AMA in the past for many years an have no problem being one again if I am flying airplanes.

 

[tnrcboatracer]

I've been sitting here watching the conversation. It is my understanding that AMA is losing membership at the rate of about 15,000 members/year due to natural attrition (deaths). The AMA is a huge organization with little interest in boats, though they may be interested in R/C modelling in general. I've heard that they are very interested in getting the car racers. Most of the AMA members that have boats have little interest in racing. It appears that the main interest of the AMA is to get membership increase (replenishment) to counter their attrition and increase their dues income (or reduce their income loss). If IMPBA becomes a SIG of AMA, then the IMPBA leadership, board, and rules must follow the format of the AMA. That pretty much removes the autonomy of IMPBA. Now, if AMA changes to a more general R/C model organization with boat and car divisions, then maybe there is a better feeling that this will be a positive thing.

I see nothing in the AMA affiliation will help the Internats situation. We still need hosts to put on the race. The current pond at Muncie is not suitable for racing. Since the offer to have a race pond dug for free 10 years ago was lost, my understanding is that AMA is asking IMPBA to bear much of the cost to dig a racing pond; upwards of $150,000. The current IMPBA budget cannot support that kind of expense.

The IMPBA leadership is in negotiation with the AMA leadership, and we'll just have to wait to see how it goes. I am skeptical, but also hopeful that it can be worked out.

Can someone tell me why it is good to have 3 different R/C boating organizations; IMPBA, NAMBA, and APBA? To me it just dilutes each organization and adds redundant overhead costs. I think that I could agree with 1 overall R/C Modelling organization with separate divisions for air, land, and water. It just makes too much sense to me; therefore it will never work.

Now I'll sit back and watch some more.

 

[Ron Olson]

Doc, I can see your worries and have seen a lot of pro's and con's in here.

First, no one has said that the IMPBA Internat's must be held in Muncie every year but it's nice to know that the option to use the AMA pond is there if needed should a merger happen.

The AMA isn't just all about planes either as they already have tracks for cars and trucks there.

I do agree with you on cost as it does appear that we'd not only have to pay for an AMA membership but for IMPBA also as we still toss John Equi a paycheck that he does deserve and is underpaid as it is for that work that he does.

Let's just sit back and see what the powers that be come up with then we'll have a chance to vote on it. Somehow I have a feeling that any merger won't happen.

 

[Bill-SOCAL]

People need to understand that IMPBA and the AMA are not "merging". IMPBA will retain its identity if it does gain recognition as an AMA Special Interest Group. Again, AMA has no part in the operation of the SIG pretty much beyond requiring that all members of the SIG also belong to the AMA. I have never seen the AMA get involved with a SIG, tell it how to do things, etc.

Becoming a SIG is not a merger, it is more of a recognition by the AMA of an organization as being the most prominent group in that area of interest.

And I sense that the IMPBA insurance issue is deeper than a simple rate increase. I don't know for sure, but it seems that way to me. Otherwise IMPBA would not be looking at doing this in the first place.

 

[El Zorro]

BillSOCAL is right on with all of his responses to this topic. Being around AMA for a long time and being involved with his AMA District business has given him a good look at how the political part of AMA works. When I was flying controline combat airplanes years ago I was a member of the Special Interest Group ( SIG ) MACA, or Miniature Aircraft Combat Association. Just like IMPBA, they have elected officers that run their business. Dues are $15.00 a year, mostly to cover mailings, etc. I presume all of AMA's SIG's are run in a similar way. If IMPBA were to become a Special Interest Group of AMA the reality of this whole situation is that IMPBA would still have to have a Secretary to do ALL of what John Equi is doing now ( which is a VERY underpaid position, just ask my Wife ). It is hard enough to find someone to do this job at all, much less to do it as well as John is doing it. THANKS, JOHN! IMPBA members will still have to pay dues to IMPBA to cover all of the expenses we have now..................except the insurance. I don't think they will dig us a pond or find us a lake to run boats in. Jim Irwin had a guy in Muncie that was going to dig a pond on their property in the mid 1990's and they jerked us both around for a couple of years ( SEE MY EARLIER POST ON THIS ) before we said screw'em. AMA has helped the modeling community in regards to securing the frequencies we use to operate our cars, boats and airplanes. AMA was lucky to have some influence with the FCC at the time when the cell phones and other electronic gagets were booming and secured our use of the frequencies we use today. In looking out for their own concerns, they covered ours, too.

AMA is a great organization, but so is IMPBA. I don't want to see 60 years thrown under the bus because a few people are tired of looking for the right insurance. In my opinion, if IMPBA were to go as a Special Interest Group ( SIG ) with AMA ( it would NOT be a merger ), your AMA membership and your IMPBA SIG dues ( remember, we still have to have a Secretary and operating expenses to run as we do now ) would probably be at least $100 to $120 per Senior member. If someone is better with the math than me then you do the numbers, but that's what it looks like to me and it looks pretty stupid. I pay $150 each year for an APBA Racing membership to race my Stock Outboard hydroplane. Each sanctioned race we go to has to pay APBA a minimum of $2500 just for the insurance for that race. Entry fees are usually $30 or $35 per boat to race PER DAY. Each day is its own race to race for points. It can get expensive...........

I don't want to see IMPBA go away from the organization it once was and can be again. If the people running the show will take some responsibility and find the right insurance for IMPBA's needs we won't need to go to AMA to bail us out. This is not an impossible thing to do. I was in the "hot seat" once and Priscilla and I stepped up to the plate and got the job done. Raise the dues up so that the Secretary can run things and not wonder if there will be enough money to do the organization's business with. And give him a raise for what he does too, because NOBODY would do what he does for what he's being paid.............trust me, I know.............ask my wife.

Don't bail out to the AMA. The only thing they can or will offer us is insurance. You can find insurance anywhere................it just comes with a price. You just need to do a little shopping around to find the best price. We all do that with our cars and our homes, don't we? Why can't IMPBA?

Dick Tyndall

 

[Ron Olson]

After my last posting last night/early this morning, I went ot the AMA forum over at RCU. As I went through the threads over there and saw all of the problems with everything from politics on down, the less that I would want to have ny connection to them at all! You ought to see what a big deal that they make out of backyard flyers!!!!

Some of our biggest problems are only a drop in the ocean compared to what goes on in the AMA. I'd go NAMBA or ABPA-R/C first.

Kevin, Bill or whoever, save your time and breath on this please and just forget about it. Big whoopty-do if we have to toss in a few more bucks.

 

[piper_chuck]

After my last posting last night/early this morning, I went ot the AMA forum over at RCU. As I went through the threads over there and saw all of the problems with everything from politics on down, the less that I would want to have ny connection to them at all! You ought to see what a big deal that they make out of backyard flyers!!!!Some of our biggest problems are only a drop in the ocean compared to what goes on in the AMA. I'd go NAMBA or ABPA-R/C first.

Kevin, Bill or whoever, save your time and breath on this please and just forget about it. Big whoopty-do if we have to toss in a few more bucks.

The AMA forum on RCU is NOT a good reflection on the general feelings of AMA members. Their ability to go on and on about unimportant issues is legendary.

 

[Bill-SOCAL]

After my last posting last night/early this morning, I went ot the AMA forum over at RCU. As I went through the threads over there and saw all of the problems with everything from politics on down, the less that I would want to have ny connection to them at all! You ought to see what a big deal that they make out of backyard flyers!!!!Some of our biggest problems are only a drop in the ocean compared to what goes on in the AMA. I'd go NAMBA or ABPA-R/C first.

Kevin, Bill or whoever, save your time and breath on this please and just forget about it. Big whoopty-do if we have to toss in a few more bucks.

As was noted above, the RCU forum is a very poor indicator of what goes on in AMA. There are literally a half a dozen people who use that forum to argue for the sake of an argument. I gave up on it some time ago.

Also, if the problem is that IMPBA cannot get insured why not find out who does NAMBA insurance and talk to that company?? Frankly, the NAMBA policy is better than either IMPBA or AMA. It is primary and covers you everywhere all the time as long as you are following the published safety rules. And NAMBA does that for $45 per year per member.

 

[Wesleys Custom RC]

Again, you will have to excuse my ignorance but I can not think of 1 reason why NAMBA and IMPBA cant or should not merge. It seems to make alot more sense to me. One issue comes to mind after reading some posts. What if our little friend.... somebody shows up at a race without a muffler again and we get fined. Is AMA going to back us up, throw someone out, or be indifferent. It will be the AMA that gets fined...

Grim, I know you've thought about this alot. Why do you think it is such a bad idea to merge IMPBA and NAMBA

 

[Wesleys Custom RC]

double post

 

[Grimracer]

All good points.... but..

I feel we might be forgetting what the AMA can do for the IMPBA..

We would have the power and stability of the strength of the AMA

We would get MUCH better exposure to RC and non RC people (monthly mag coverage)

We could "could" get use of the AMAs pond (not the one your thinking of) they do own more then one. If its used for a nats or a club race neither is bad!

We are always asking.. HOW DO WE GET MORE PEOPLE INTO RC BOATING.. I have herd this over and over again.. It just might be that the exposure the AMA can or could provide us might "Might" be our best "catch program" yet.

True.. just paying more money to satisfy IMPBA insurance would work... But.. how does that help us grow.. This is and always has been about not only stability for the IMPBA but making it GROW!

Good luck to all...

Grim out

 

[Grimracer]

Again, you will have to excuse my ignorance but I can not think of 1 reason why NAMBA and IMPBA cant or should not merge. It seems to make alot more sense to me. One issue comes to mind after reading some posts. What if our little friend.... somebody shows up at a race without a muffler again and we get fined. Is AMA going to back us up, throw someone out, or be indifferent. It will be the AMA that gets fined...
Grim, I know you've thought about this alot. Why do you think it is such a bad idea to merge IMPBA and NAMBA

Wes..

im not sure man.. ...

Maybe its not a matter of us not having the same rule sets.. but rather.. what drives us. I feel it would be good to have rules the same. but different divisions (NFL, NHL, Baseball.. I dont know... )

I might be all wet on this.. but to me its competition that builds strength between us.. X has 1000 members Y has 998.. your a member of Y.... Likely want to build yours larger? Likely....

Team building and Team pride come to mind. I feel this would disappear if we merged.

Grim

 

[piper_chuck]

Again, you will have to excuse my ignorance but I can not think of 1 reason why NAMBA and IMPBA cant or should not merge. It seems to make alot more sense to me. One issue comes to mind after reading some posts. What if our little friend.... somebody shows up at a race without a muffler again and we get fined. Is AMA going to back us up, throw someone out, or be indifferent. It will be the AMA that gets fined...
Grim, I know you've thought about this alot. Why do you think it is such a bad idea to merge IMPBA and NAMBA

Wes..

im not sure man.. ...

Maybe its not a matter of us not having the same rule sets.. but rather.. what drives us. I feel it would be good to have rules the same. but different divisions (NFL, NHL, Baseball.. I dont know... )

Having one set of rules would be a good thing. The small variations between classes now can lead to confusion. We could merge into a single organization, perhaps call it RCMBA, and then have East and West (or even NE, SE, NW, and SW) divisions to provide the competition you speak of. This could be interesting because you could then have regional championships and send the top finishers from each region to a national championship.

I might be all wet on this.. but to me its competition that builds strength between us.. X has 1000 members Y has 998.. your a member of Y.... Likely want to build yours larger? Likely....
Team building and Team pride come to mind. I feel this would disappear if we merged.

Grim

I think the reason some speak of merging is exactly for the team building aspects. Right now, there seems to be some feeling of us versus them. There is also redundancy of membership for people on the borders. In addition, having several boating organizations reduces the clout and recognition that we could have if we were one united group. Of course if we were all united as one SIG under AMA, we'd become part of an even larger organization which wields more clout than we could ever achieve as a group that only specializes in R/C boat racing.

 

[Joe Warren]

IMPBA could start growth by Going back into Dist 3 & telling the boaters the IMPBA organization would like to welcome them back, many of the people that pushed for a NAMBA in early 2000 are now Gone from the hobby. The Dist 3 boaters are Hardcore & many are fine boaters & people. Hopefully the IMPBA New Leadership will welcome these guys back & start New Growth in 2009. IMPBA turning a def ear to these Dist 3 members have not effected THEM. They are still boating......Just Now paying their money to another Organization. Its easier to get back the Known boater than the UNKOWN BOATER...... IMPBA already has the Known dist 3 boaters address. Now that is just my Opinion........

 

[Ray Sametz]

If this is such a good deal, why hasn't NAMBA considered joining AMA to lower it's dues paid by all their members. Maybe they like standing on their own two feet. Though we have fewer members, IMPBA has to come up with a way to do the same, STAND ON OUR OWN TWO FEET without AMA. As far as growing by leaps and bounds just being associated with AMA is not gonna happen. Organized RC boat racing is more Farther-son, Farther-daughter, word of mouth, with hands on help from those already in the sport. IW and Jim's has done more for the hobby then AMA ever will. OMHO B) B)

 

[AFIRacing]

Joe ,

Even after being driven thru(twice) by one of those hardcore racers(whoops), Thank You for your support and insight on this ,I would like to see more races scheduled so that we are not racing the same ole state club racers month in month out( Which is some of the feircest competitors in this hobby), Yes it makes our dist 3 live but I would like to see it more mixed in with the southeast districts of IMPBA,

I think it it would be surprising how many boaters out of ole Dis 3 would fill slots in race rosters,and vice a versa....Create more race opporntunits and you will create larger turn -out to be more self supportive,

Steve H