IMPBA & AMA Discussion

[Ron Olson]

Dick, I do. I also remember donating money towards the pond at the AMA HQ 2 years in a row along with my yearly membership dues. At that time I used to renew at the Toledo show.

Where the money ended up by going I don't remember but I wasn't too happy about it. Seems like it got tossed into the general fund.

I don't know if Dave is still running the AMA as there were a lot of members who didn't like him either but somehow he kept the job for a long time.

With next years full IMPBA dues cost we'd be saving a big whoppin' $2.00 a year if we joined forces with the AMA. Is the 2 frogskins worth the hassle? To some, maybe yes. To others, no.

 

[Mark Bullard]

I would like to see a detailed list of the reasons for becoming a subgroup of AMA. Also the disadvantages, ie will it cost the members more, do we loose control of the management of our dues, do we pay our dues then to AMA and they transfer the remainder of the dues after extracting the cost of the insurance to IMPBA account? Do we pay IMPBA our dues then IMPBA cuts a check to AMA for the insurance? Does the AMA have rules and reg's that have to be met to be an AMA member that differ from IMPBA? Do we loose any autonomy in governace of IMPBA by being a sub group of AMA? Does the President and or any board members have any position on the board of the AMA and what role do they have in the governance of AMA? Do decisions of the AMA board supercede our board and Presidential decision? Are IMPBA members as a subgroup of AMA able to run for office in AMA, nominate individuals for office and vote in the AMA general election? Also can AMA members do likewise in IMPBA?
In general I think the insurance issue is important but also careful consideration needs to be given to many associated issues.

I agree completely. This is very important. They are just just a little older than we are and we have history too.

Evidently not many IMPBA members remember that back when I was IMPBA President ( 1995-1998 ) Jim Irwin and I were trying to get AMA to consent to putting a lake on their property big enough to race model boats in. They had just moved to Muncie, Indiana from Reston, Virginia. They also had had some money to spend and even after the move were soliciting its membership to " help pay off the property in Muncie ". I still have a few different copies of AMA's " Master Plans " of what would be built on the property. BOTH of these include a lake for model boat racing. Jim Irwin had a friend in Muncie who was in the excavating and gravel business that agreed to dig a big enough lake on AMA's property FOR FREE...........ALL HE WANTED WAS WHAT HE DUG UP. This was to be connected to the existing pond next to their headquarters building, which I believe is spring fed. Jim and I would talk with one person in charge one week and be led to believe we had the okay to start the ball rolling and when the excavating guy went over to the property to take soil samples, etc. they would chase him away with different reasons. This happened on three separate occasions before Jim and I gave this up as a lost cause and a big waste of time. Jim and I even sat down with then AMA President Dave Brown and Executive Director Joyce Hager at the Toledo Show one year and thought we had things on the way to being ironed out but then the dirt guy got chased away for the third time and he finally said screw 'em. Jim lived right there in Muncie and talked with the AMA people on a regular basis. If you get the chance ask Jim how much they jerked HIM around. Back then IMPBA had about 2500 members and they didn't care about us. What makes you think they care about 1200 or 1300 members now?Someone needs to do what Priscilla and I did back in 1997 and do some serious shopping around for some good, affordable insurance. We saved IMPBA and its members more than $18,000 that next year in premiums. The dues need to be higher ( sorry, just a fact of life ) to keep up with the times and run IMPBA like the business it is and needs to be for it's members.

Forget AMA. You want to be part of AMA, go buy an airplane. Keep playing in this sandbox thats been around for almost sixty years.............it ain't broke, it just needs a little fixing.

Dick Tyndall

IMPBA 9407

AMA 12532 ( 1963-2001 )

I do remember this. And for sure we do not need to get the lake started.

But we can look.

 

[Bob Morton]

So a faimly of four will have a increase in dues of 132.00 dollars.

1500 times 58 =87,000 dollars that's quit a wind fall

for the AMA.

No AMA

Bob Morton

 

[piper_chuck]

So a faimly of four will have a increase in dues of 132.00 dollars.
1500 times 58 =87,000 dollars that's quit a wind fall

for the AMA.

No AMA

Bob Morton

Actually, it's nowhere near that high. Spouse membership is $30, not $58. Youth membership for a person under 19 on July 1 is $15 if they get the magazine and only $1 if they opt out of the magazine. 2009 IMPBA dues are $60 for the first member and $10 for each additional family member. So, the family of four will likely have dues of $90 for AMA versus $90 for IMPBA. It's a wash.

 

[bzubee]

Chris that is what happened this year no club wanted to host it even though Mike Schindler volunteered their lake site so the Dist 4 Group stepped up and hosted it. It still takes loads of manpower and lots of work and vacation time to host an event like the IMPBA Internats or NAMBA's Nationals.

indiana, aka muncie i where i speak of.. pretty close to central part of USA.
listen all, my hole point of this thread was not to start a big Pi$$ing match. i wanted to mearly find out.. HOW MANY IMPBA MEMBERS accually even knew of this topic. and what there thoughts are on this..

so far.. i think a very VERY limited amount of people know about his, and that is not a good thing.

Bill,

I understand that a club would put it on. Maybe in the future that would not need to take place.. But wouldn't it make it easier for a club to WANT to host the national event when all the lake prep and what have you could possibly be taken care of??

chris

 

[Chris Wood]

bill,

i understand that.. my point is not every club is going to be willing to step up to bail out the race.

Like both of the presidental crones are preaching WE NEED CHANGE.

chris

 

[piper_chuck]

bill,
i understand that.. my point is not every club is going to be willing to step up to bail out the race.

Like both of the presidental crones are preaching WE NEED CHANGE.

chris

If the facility is there already, a club doesn't need to step up, members do. Use of the site could be optional. A club could volunteer to host the Internats at their own site, and get the revenue. A club could also volunteer to run the Internats at a national site, and share the revenue with IMPBA. And finally, individuals could volunteer to run the Internats at a national site, perhaps with a revenue sharing plan between IMPBA and the individual member's clubs.

 

[Bill-SOCAL]

Keep in mind that the AMA does not actually run the NATS and neither does any particular single club. The NATS that I have attended in Muncie at the AMA facility were put on by the individual SIGS who put together a NATS "Team" consisting of volunteers from across the country to do the event. AMA does help by doing the entry work, mailing entry forms, taking them in, and such. They charge $35 per entry to do this.

But I am still wondering why if this crisis is being precipitated by an insurance issue why IMPBA cannot go to the same company that NAMBA uses. Our dues are $45 per year and for that we get a pretty good policy to cover us with very few restrictions beyond folloing the Safety Rules.

http://www.namba.com/content/insurance.asp

This would seem to be a much simpler thing to do.

 

[Wesleys Custom RC]

Mr Tyndall brought up a good point. I would like an authority from AMA to tell us that if "we do this they will do that". If Greg Hahn is speaking on behalf of AMA I would like to know. I know it is more for our benefit than theirs but I sure don't want to be treated like a step child or an uninvited guest. I for one would rather see IMPBA fold rather than be treated like a second class citizen.

Those in authority keep us informed of what you have in mind so rumors don't spread. And By all means, if AMA dosen't want us around please tell us now so we don't waist our time on this thing!

 

[Ray Sametz]

So a faimly of four will have a increase in dues of 132.00 dollars.
1500 times 58 =87,000 dollars that's quit a wind fall

for the AMA.

No AMA

Bob Morton

Actually, it's nowhere near that high. Spouse membership is $30, not $58. Youth membership for a person under 19 on July 1 is $15 if they get the magazine and only $1 if they opt out of the magazine. 2009 IMPBA dues are $60 for the first member and $10 for each additional family member. So, the family of four will likely have dues of $90 for AMA versus $90 for IMPBA. It's a wash.

For me the dues money is not the issue, two cards of glow plugs, big deal. It's the control, I personally would pay as a member what it takes to stand on our own two feet as IMPBA. Not AMA-impba.

 

[Richard Dahlheimer]

So a faimly of four will have a increase in dues of 132.00 dollars.
1500 times 58 =87,000 dollars that's quit a wind fall

for the AMA.

No AMA

Bob Morton

Actually, it's nowhere near that high. Spouse membership is $30, not $58. Youth membership for a person under 19 on July 1 is $15 if they get the magazine and only $1 if they opt out of the magazine. 2009 IMPBA dues are $60 for the first member and $10 for each additional family member. So, the family of four will likely have dues of $90 for AMA versus $90 for IMPBA. It's a wash.

For me the dues money is not the issue, two cards of glow plugs, big deal. It's the control, I personally would pay as a member what it takes to stand on our own two feet as IMPBA. Not AMA-impba.

I would like to see the IMPBA & NAMBA join forces. I agree with Mr. Tyndall ......... raise the dues. Leave the AMA to the flyers. Richard D

 

[Bill-SOCAL]

I wrote this in a previous post, but let me try again.

My experience as a member of two different AMA Special Interest Groups (SIG) (International Miniature Aerobatics Club [iMAC] and the League of Silent Flight [LSF] ) and as an Associate Vice President in AMA District X is this:

1) All AMA requires of the members of a SIG is that all of its members belong to AMA. AMA dues is paid directly to the AMA and none of that goes back to the SIG.

2) The SIG runs its own affairs, collects dues if they so choose, elects its officers, does its own newsletter (or not) and so on. AMA does not place very many restrictions, if any.

3) Being a member of a SIG does not get individual SIG members any more privileges with the AMA than a member who does not belong to a SIG. You will get one vote for the elected offices of the AMA (President, Executive Vice President, and your District Vice President).

4) The SIG leadership is not directly involved with the running of the AMA nor does the AMA take any part in the operations of the SIG.

5) If the SIG offers competitive "rulebook" events AMA prefers that those rules be published in the AMA rulebook and that the rules process follow the AMA procedure. IMPBA may be able to get a waiver on this point since the AMA rulebook has traditionally covered airplanes and not boats. Individual AMA members do not vote on rules changes. Individual members can, however, propose a new rule or change for ANY AMA rule in the book for any area of interest outside of the Safety rules. The Executive Council takes care of the Safety Rules.

6) The SIGS usually put together a committee of volunteers from within their group to organize and run the National (NATS) for the area of interest of the SIG (pattern, scale aerobatics, soaring, etc.). AMA takes care of the registration, mailings, etc. and collects a $35 fee per NATS entry to do so. I am not aware of any SIG that has a competition interest that does not participate in the AMA NATS process.

Again, the AMA is very hands off with the SIGS and I think that for the IMPBA members it would be a very transparent thing. You would have to send a check to Muncie each year for your AMA dues, you would get a nice monthly magazine (airplane oriented), the insurance coverage, and representation by the AMA to various public and governmental entities. AMA recently was a big part of getting the EPA to exclude all model engines, including boat engines, from some very restrictive new emissions rules that the EPA plans to impose on small IC engines. So boaters benefited here even without being an AMA member.

You would then pay any other dues that the IMPBA wished to charge for their group. Your NATS may, or may not, take place in Muncie depending on how IMPBA chooses to go and contingent upon there being a facility there.

 

[Grimracer]

I have been a member of the AMA for over 35 years and have YET to me treated like a "Second class citizen"..

I gota ask Wes my friend.. where is the world did that come from?

Grim

Also for the record im not a fan of NAMBA and IMPBA joining forces. I like the distinction between the two.. they both have VERY strong backgrounds.

Like competition.. if we are one… the only one.. who sets the standards.. You know in allot of cases its competition that makes us want to be better.. Its no fun to be the only one in the heat. That’s called practice.

Grim

 

[Buckshot]

From what I’ve read in this thread, the only people that had any knowledge that this was in the works are people from up north. No one I’ve talked to down here in TX knew about this.

-Buck-

NAMBA - 844

 

[Wesleys Custom RC]

I have been a member of the AMA for over 35 years and have YET to me treated like a "Second class citizen"..
I gota ask Wes my friend.. where is the world did that come from?

Grim

Also for the record im not a fan of NAMBA and IMPBA joining forces. I like the distinction between the two.. they both have VERY strong backgrounds.

Like competition.. if we are one… the only one.. who sets the standards.. You know in allot of cases its competition that makes us want to be better.. Its no fun to be the only one in the heat. That’s called practice.

Grim

I'm not bashing! I'm not for or against this thing at all. As a mater of fact I think it would be a good thing. I just know how false rumors get started and if someone is speaking on behalf of the AMA I wanna know. We don't need more issues like Mr Tyndall had. That was lack of communication and that is how crap gets started.

OK I didn't read all the reports and the minutes of the AMA. Where is the info from IMPBA to their members?

 

[bzubee]

Buck Buddy and Doug were both in attendance at the Internats meeting. Main reason word has not been spread is there are many questions to be answered firest before any real considerationcan be accomplished. Believe me prior to the meeting alot of us were really hoping this could work out until we got the initial quote and realized it needed to be muchbetter for this merger to benifit both organizations. As kevin stated it is still in the works just have to work out very many important details and procedures.

From what I’ve read in this thread, the only people that had any knowledge that this was in the works are people from up north. No one I’ve talked to down here in TX knew about this.
-Buck-

NAMBA - 844

 

[Bill-SOCAL]

alot of us were really hoping this could work out until we got the initial quote and realized it needed to be much better for this merger to benifit both organizations.

I'm curious now. Is IMPBA looking to be recognized as an AMA Special Interest Group (SIG), or is it looking to actually "merge" with AMA?? There are no financial considerations in becoming a SIG, while there certainly are such considerations in a merger. What "initial quote" are you speaking of?

 

[mark voorhies]

Buck Buddy and Doug were both in attendance at the Internats meeting. Main reason word has not been spread is there are many questions to be answered firest before any real considerationcan be accomplished. Believe me prior to the meeting alot of us were really hoping this could work out until we got the initial quote and realized it needed to be muchbetter for this merger to benifit both organizations. As kevin stated it is still in the works just have to work out very many important details and procedures.

From what I've read in this thread, the only people that had any knowledge that this was in the works are people from up north. No one I've talked to down here in TX knew about this.
-Buck-

NAMBA - 844

Buck,

You have made a great point, If I hadn't been to a select few races, I would not have heard of the SIG,

(special intrest group), that was offered up to the IMPBA from AMA. In reading through the posts, I see there have been many long time racers respond. This alone, tells me this a topic that needs put forward to all IMPBA members.

Also I read that there has been a select few that have chosen to unselfishly advocate the benifits. Congrats to

them for making us think!

The pro's and con's, have been offered, it's a topic that requires more input from IMPBA members.

 

[bzubee]

Mark, as Kevin stated it will be a topic in the December Roostertail. That is the time to read the facts and contact your District Directors with your feelings on this subject.

 

[piper_chuck]

From what I’ve read in this thread, the only people that had any knowledge that this was in the works are people from up north. No one I’ve talked to down here in TX knew about this.

When something like this is being considered, it's usually best for a few people to do the leg work, get all the facts, build a proposal and THEN open it up for discussion. That way, the facts can be presented to everyone. If you try to discuss it before the facts are all documented, people prejudge the idea based on misinformation. Examples in this thread include the cost of dues for family members and whether insurance for pond owners is primary or secondary.

We elect people to do the groundwork for things like this. Perhaps we should have a little faith that they are competent and wait for them to do their jobs? Once their proposal is made public then we can start discussing and asking questions.