FE faces some interesting challenges.

[RaceMechaniX]

I would like to see twin power systems remain legal for national classes and let local clubs decide if they want to allow twins to compete against singles. No need to change class rules, let the race CD decide ahead of time what's allowed.

On the topic of the P limited proposal I am in favor of just using the diameter and length of the motor and dropping any weight requirement.

Rationale being it's easy to measure length and diameter in the boat. Tech'ing weight means removing the motor from the boat and likely the cooler too.

I have tested the heavy copper motors and there is minimal advantage. Not enough to justify a weight measurement. There is an additional reason I will bring up with Mike Ball before I post here.

-Tyler

 

[HTV Boats]

Just because a class is in the book doesn't mean it will be supported at races. The other side if there are too few or non current options you kill potential builders. Local clubs and groups of racers will build classes that fit their interests. I have "Q" tunnels on the shelf for outboard events and open OB classes. They get heat raced once or twice a year.

What does promote people getting involved is cost. This is why Spec/Limited classes are popular. That's a great base to build on and not having an organized rule structure doesn't help. We are finally on the race schedule here in D-3 Florida and have 4 spec classes plus P&Q with cats and monos combined. For our growth in classes past limited, twins could inhibit people. When you have to spend twice the money to compete you may not build. Sure the first twins will get beat for a while but once sorted out they will dominate. Kind of like combining sport hydro's and riggers to get things going. Eventually the riggers will win out. We just need to build classes and numbers. The point here is keep the future and rules in mind, plus be open to changes to encourage new racers. Or just have "Q" tunnels collecting dust all but two events a year.

Mic

 

[T.S.Davis]

I would to see twin power systems remain legal for national classes and let local clubs decide if they want to allow twins to compete against singles. No need to change class rules, let the race CD decide ahead of time what's allowed.

Yep. Could do that but that wont help someone looking to get into racing. Just went through this with a potential new guy trying to understand the FE rules. If the rules fluctuate from club to club and from venue to venue................ Again, I'm not suggesting I have a solve. Just more think'n out loud. This is why I would prefer to have spec be an actual rule set instead of a recommendation. I'm certainly willing to wait to get it right though. As successful as limited is/was I still think we screwed it up. Don't wanna screw it up again. The motor list was un-techable.

That weight restriction was aimed at the Neu 1415 motor with a modified can. I still haven't been beaten by one.

I thought the same thing about the weight. What a pain in the a$$! Then Mike talked me down. haha

We're not going to be weighing every motor at an event. Ever. The only time either rule set requires us to weigh one is if it is officially protested. That's only going to happen when someone is stomping the crap out of the field. You weigh it with the can...........crap it's over. Take the can off........dang close but still over. Take off the connectors. If it's still over it's illegal. That's a worst case scenario. Going to happen maybe once per year.

As race/builder.........if I get out close to the edge of the spec......I'm likely aware. I know there is a chance I'll be proving it. If I know that I may (MAY) have to have my motor weighed I'm build accordingly. Ease of extraction being a real thing. The onus is on me the racer not the organization or the CD to make my life as easy as possible. A better idea for me the racer is to get no where near that specs edge and focus on driving a lane. That's where I pis away all my chances anyway.

 

[RaceMechaniX]

Fully agree Terry, let's let this simmer till we have a good recipe for the P-Ltd.

Can you start to imagine P-Spec motors looking like this:

This is my favorite:

 

[Terry Keeley]

I've also heard that the weight limit isn't really a great advantage, would be soooo much simpler to drop that.

A guy sets a P-Limited record, a nitro guy (me) has to tech the boat. "Is the motor "x" grams or under?" I don't have a gram scale. New guy that sets the record doesn't have one. I tell him sorry but I cannot apply for his record, think he'll be back?

 

[Jeffmaturo]

I do have the solution. If there is not enough twins to make a class, (3) than run them with the singles and score them separately like other forms of racing. That way no one is turned away, they can run their equipment and it is fair for everyone.

 

[T.S.Davis]

I do have the solution. If there is not enough twins to make a class, (3) than run them with the singles and score them separately like other forms of racing. That way no one is turned away, they can run their equipment and it is fair for everyone.

We tried that one race with Nimh and Lipo. Back when about half the sparkies had LiPo. Ever been lapped twice? It's very confusing for racers, pit guys, and contest directors.

Terry, I think time trials are a little different. New guy should know what he's getting into when he comes to a time trial. If I know I'll need to prove my boat is legal I'm bringing a scale. They're 20 bucks at harbor freight.

 

[raptor347]

Cool pics of old Hacker and Kontronic FAI motors? How about an Aveox 1406/1.5HC FAI special?

Carbon motor cases with integrated cooling jackets. Not hard to do.

 

[Jeffmaturo]

I do have the solution. If there is not enough twins to make a class, (3) than run them with the singles and score them separately like other forms of racing. That way no one is turned away, they can run their equipment and it is fair for everyone.

We tried that one race with Nimh and Lipo. Back when about half the sparkies had LiPo. Ever been lapped twice? It's very confusing for racers, pit guys, and contest directors.

Terry, I think time trials are a little different. New guy should know what he's getting into when he comes to a time trial. If I know I'll need to prove my boat is legal I'm bringing a scale. They're 20 bucks at harbor freight.

I agree Terry, Dist 3 is voting now on a lap counting system. If it gets approved it will squash any confusion. If not, back to 3 makes a class.

 

[T.S.Davis]

I agree Terry, Dist 3 is voting now on a lap counting system. If it gets approved it will squash any confusion. If not, back to 3 makes a class.

That is a mess if you run at a NAMBA race.  Cut a buoy and you're a lap down.  The lap counter has no idea.  I wonder will it have a transponder? 

 

[Jeffmaturo]

The system they are looking at will count laps. No system currently available is capable of noting buoy cuts. Unfortunately  no matter how a race is scored we will still need a CD and judges on the stand. 

With everything that has been stated within this discussion it still comes back to this:  It takes 3 to make a class. 

 

[twox45]

I haven't read the entire thread but there used to be a class in ROAR that limited the cell number and weight (not mah) of the BATTERY.  You can run the hottest setup you want but if you don't have enough juice to make 6 laps then that will govern the setup.  Eventually everyone would figure out what the best setup for their boat would be.  This would eliminate the advantage of rewound motors that look like they haven't been touched and the speed controller wouldn't matter if the battery was light enough.  It would be much more fun to race 5 boats running between 45 and 50mph in stead of the one or two boats running 15mph faster than the actual Spec setups.  $.02 :huh:  

 

[Jeffmaturo]

We now have the Sonic wave self righting boat from ProBoat. There are several more self righters planned. Where do these figure into the rules of IMPBA and NAMBA?

I am asking because I do not know if there are rules in place already that address these hulls. 

https://www.horizonhobby.com/sonicwake-36-self-righting-brushless-deep-v-rtr--white-p-prb08032t1

 

[longballlumber]

We now have the Sonic wave self righting boat from ProBoat. There are several more self righters planned. Where do these figure into the rules of IMPBA and NAMBA?

I am asking because I do not know if there are rules in place already that address these hulls. 

https://www.horizonhobby.com/sonicwake-36-self-righting-brushless-deep-v-rtr--white-p-prb08032t1

I am not sure I understand your post.  Are you suggesting that a self righting hull should be allowed to race in competition?  Pretty surge they are illegal in both orgs, but would need read the rules to confirm.

 

[Jeffmaturo]

No, I am not suggesting that at all. I am asking if there are rules in place in both organizations that address these hulls? 

 

[Grimracer]

Open the book!

Grim

 

[longballlumber]

Open the book!

Grim

 Where's the like button... 

 

[Jeffmaturo]

Open the book!

Grim

I know right! People are so lazy. 

So getting back to my question, does anyone know if they are addressed because they appear to be a recent development. Both the IMPBA and NAMBA rules books from what I can tell do not mention a self righting hull. 

 

[longballlumber]

I know right! People are so lazy. 

So getting back to my question, does anyone know if they are addressed because they appear to be a recent development. Both the IMPBA and NAMBA rules books from what I can tell do not mention a self righting hull. 

IMPBA - Section J.D.1.a 

NAMBA - Section 28.A.5

I think that should cover your question...  

 

[Jeffmaturo]

Thanks Mike, I will take a look.