"F" hydro

[Joe_Knesek]

Who is Joe W ? Is he a racer or a talker?His bio is not filled out so he must not be proud of himself.I would like to humble his 67 rigger with my gas Canard and I do run in Dist 5

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Hap, you must have missed the '04 Nats or you were in a coma if you think Joe can't back up his mouth.

As for a bio, his actions speak for themselves and he doesn't need to tell what he has done. The great leader Robert E. Lee once said "I do not care for display".

 

[Joe Warren]

Mr Joe K We were still learning last year Nats 04. But I will be Ready Freddy in 2005. Come on down to the Tent. Would like to meet ya.... AS for Hap............. Hell!! I might Rent him a boat so he can Run on he lead lap..?? WE love ya hap. Where ever you are??

 

[Brad Christy]

Joe,

If you're a beginner, then we all are. You've been around long enough.

As for the gas canard:

I've seen it run in Charleston, SC, and it ran good. That being said, it was still a good 10-15 MPH short of the AVERAGE 67 hydro there, let alone the 80/90's.

Hap,

I'd have to say the only way a gas hydro of any kind is gonna beat a well tuned 90 hydro is by the "last boat running rule". Like Joe said....... AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN! I know, I know, some are saying "There are gas riggers running as fast as nitro!" YEAH, RIGHT! The statement is indeed true, in theory. The fact is that one or two of the absolute fastest gas hydros are "competitively" performing with SOME big block nitro riggers. Put the very fastest gas hydro on the pond with a well tuned 80 Crapshooter and the 'Shooter will have his boat back on the stand and headed back for his tent before the gas boat finishes his six.

You just can't get the same smooth performance out of a 17K RPM engine turning a prop with a foot and a half of pitch as you can turning a 4" pitch prop at 27K. This is why I say I've never seen a gas hydro run right. Hop, skip, bounce, swurve, recover, hop, skip, bounce, swurve, recover, hop, skip, bounce, swurve, recover.................

No offense.....

TimK,

I don't understand your earlier comment about "We don't need any more classes." I don't think anybody is suggesting more classes. What this is about is the gas guys want to run in whatever class they feel lucky in, but don't want to get a mudhole stomped in their guts by a bunch of old school nitro guys. Look at the average race flyer. Somehwere on there will be a statement something like "Gas only in gas classes." Why do you suppose they feel the need to say that? Because if the host club allows the nitro guys to run in the gas classes, they won't get any gas entries. The gas guys don't want to enter a race knowing the only way they can take home a trophy is by backing into it by way of the "last boat running rule".

Thanks. Brad.

Titan Racing Components

BlackJack Hydros

 

[Slideblues]

Who is Joe W ? Is he a racer or a talker?His bio is not filled out so he must not be proud of himself.I would like to humble his 67 rigger with my gas Canard and I do run in Dist 5

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Oh boy, here we go............... h34r:

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Crap! Im outta here h34r: 23 Skidoo :lol: :lol: :lol:

Gener

 

[Preston_Hall]

:angry:

I'll tell you guys something, you are way off base the way you have insulted Mike T. I think he is a stand up guy and very third party in his comments. He has always been there to help and I respect him.

Gas/nitro...................[SIZE=21pt]WE[/SIZE] are [SIZE=21pt]ALL[/SIZE] boaters! Try to promote that as stated in the rule book.

Don,

It may say for "LSG engine classes to go to ......................"

It also has a section for 1/8 scale classes. Can they not run in E hydro? Sorry. LSG just gets basically the same possible race entry advantage as tunnels, sport 40's, 1/8 scales, crackerboxes, cats, and open cats.

I'd like to see it separated as well but I am definitely not going to not be somebody's friend or not welcome a racer due to his fuel choice.

 

[Tim Kish]

Joe,

TimK,

I don't understand your earlier comment about "We don't need any more classes." I don't think anybody is suggesting more classes. What this is about is the gas guys want to run in whatever class they feel lucky in, but don't want to get a mudhole stomped in their guts by a bunch of old school nitro guys. Look at the average race flyer. Somehwere on there will be a statement something like "Gas only in gas classes." Why do you suppose they feel the need to say that? Because if the host club allows the nitro guys to run in the gas classes, they won't get any gas entries. The gas guys don't want to enter a race knowing the only way they can take home a trophy is by backing into it by way of the "last boat running rule".

Thanks. Brad.

Titan Racing Components

BlackJack Hydros

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Brad

I probably should have been more clear but it was early in the morning.

I just don't beleive IMPBA planned this one out very well.

They seem to keep adding more and more classes to keep everyone happy instead of trying to make the ones they have better and stronger.

Instead of creating a seperate class for the big engine nitro and gas hydro's why not combine the two and create more competition and dare I say FUN at least at the club level.

I would much rather watch one six boat heat than have to sit through two three boat heats.

.

I think we need to work with the gas guys at the club level to make smaller races more enjoyable and only seperate gas and nitro at the National level were you don't need to worry about the number of boats that enter.

Tim Kish

 

[Slideblues]

I say run what you like and Kick Ass!!! And remember to have some fun while your doing it!!!Gene 

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He,He, Never quoted myself before :blink: :lol:

Mike T is a very standup dude, Makes a mean muffler tooo

 

[Don Ferrette]

"It may say for "LSG engine classes to go to ......................"

It also has a section for 1/8 scale classes. Can they not run in E hydro? Sorry. LSG just gets basically the same possible race entry advantage as tunnels, sport 40's, 1/8 scales, crackerboxes, cats, and open cats."

Not the same as you are comparing other NITRO boats & those specialty class rules say "Nitro Specialized Classes" at the beginning of that section ("H") The sentence I keep referring to is quite SPECIFIC, it says GASOLINE go to another section. I am ONLY referring to F classes anyway. You want to mix 'em up, that's what OPEN classes are for. I did it for years running the D.C club in OPEN offshore & OPEN cat. B)

"I'll tell you guys something, you are way off base the way you have insulted Mike T. I think he is a stand up guy and very third party in his comments. He has always been there to help and I respect him."

Agreed, which is why I posted this-

"I will say that I'm glad that you are not part of this Mikey as I consider you a friend as well as fellow clubmate. BUT this still DEEPLY concerns me & I want someone to post a link to this thread that supposedly exists on "another board."

I'm not out to insult or alienate anyone, or turn away boaters, I think I have been quite clear at that all along. All it boils down to is this "loophole" needs to be closed once & for all. All it will take is ONE word- "glow" added to the title "internal combustion engine classes". With this being a "technical" oversight, it can be done in one simple step by the technical director & end this issue. There is NOTHING wrong with combining boats at races but that decision should be up to the CD and/or host club in the interest of letting people race if you are SHORT of boats & NOT by someone thinking they can force this upon an event (like last year's Internats) because of how they choose to "interpret" the rulebook. <_<

 

[Joe Warren]

Brad. My Intlwaters ad use to say I`am a Beginner...... .. **** Now is says Boater. :angry: Who changed this?? You would think they would Notify you when your Not a Beginner on here anymore?? Yours still says Beginner too.... I would like to stay a beginner as long as possible..... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :huh: As for our buddy Hap.... Hell put a Small block Chevy 5700cc in the Canard & bring it. Us NITRO Guys we Aint Skeert..... If anyone got Mad about todays Post we just having FUN....... Gone to the boat Room Now. All the SMACK talk has got me Going.... Hope to race all of you guys this year & drink a Cold one after its OVER...........

 

[Lake S.P.O.R.T.]

Something to consider.....at the ODMBA race last year the last class on Sunday was Run Whatcha Brung. I think a big gas mono won it and everyone had a lot of fun. If I would have had anything other than my 20 outboard that day I would have jumped in and ran too. Maybe "open" class races are a way to let both sides have fun against each other. Sure sounds like a lot of challenges being thrown down in this thread already. :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Don Ferrette]

"Maybe "open" class races are a way to let both sides have fun against each other."

Exactly. I think everyone agrees on the "open" class. Where the "issue" lies is gas running in the F class. To me the answer is simple, fix the loophole like I previously mentioned & offer the "open" class if you want to mix it up but I guess that's too easy....... :blink:

 

[RUNNERX]

Besides going off topic some it seems to me that most people from either side want it to be separate.

Engine/Motor Definitions and Classifications

1. Displacement

The cubic inch displacement of a power plant shall be the sum total of the displacement

of all cylinders in the power plant. The cubic inch displacement of multi-cylinder

engines, two or more engines driving attached together and two or more engines driving

separate propellers will be added together to determine the total displacement and thus

the class the power will run in. To determine engine class, read calculated engine

displacement to three decimal places, drop all remaining figures.

2. Internal Combustion Engine Classes

Class Cubic Inch Displacement Metric Class

A 0.000 thru 0.129 2.1 CC

B 0.130 thru 0.219 3.5 CC

C 0.220 thru 0.300 4.9 CC

D 0.301 thru 0.458 7.5 CC

E 0.459 thru 0.670 11.0 CC

F 0.671 thru 1.830 30.0 CC

Formulas: CC X .061 = CID, CID divided by .061 = CC

Note: For Large Scale Gasoline engine classes see section “I”, Large Scale Gasoline.

Ok to me that last line in no way excludes gas from the above classes, it just tells you where to find additional info on gas classes. Like looking up something in the phone book that says “also see”.

As for the resentment….

Way back I went to a race to take a look at how things ran. I was asked if I had a boat, when I told him I had a gas boat, I was asked why I ran that CRAP to get a real boat. I was also told by others that gas boaters would NEVER be allowed in the club. Well the club is about equal gas and nitro. Ok so they don’t want us to run with them so we do our own fun run and one of them shows up with his nitro boat to show how much better it is. And yes he won but why did he even have to be there he had somewhere to run and race we did not. Soon as one of the nitro guys would find out where we were running one or more of them would show up to run or just rag on you for running something so slow. Once again why they had there own place we did not, and theirs was easy to get to. Lots of the places I ran were ruff to get to and if it rained you needed a 4x4 to get to it, or a few others the cops would run you off. It seemed like the nitro guys would go out of their way to give gas boaters crap. I now run gas no that pond that I was bared from so many years ago have even thrown my electric in, for that matter the pond hosts gas only events. And just like my sig say I also do nitro, what can I say I like boats.

Were all kids playing with toys, just don’t get mad when things don’t the way you want.

HAVE FUN!!!!!

 

[Don Ferrette]

"Note: For Large Scale Gasoline engine classes see section “I”, Large Scale Gasoline.

Ok to me that last line in no way excludes gas from the above classes, it just tells you where to find additional info on gas classes. Like looking up something in the phone book that says “also see......"

And herein lies the problem. David CHOOSES to interpret the sentence HIS way, even though there is no "also" like he suggests. It does NOT say "for additional info" or "also see". The sentence is NOT giving you a choice of options, it says see a DIFFERENT section than what you are currently looking at for GASOLINE engines. Tell me this, if it didn't matter, WHY was this specific sentence included on a line ALL BY ITSELF??? <_<

If the gas boats were still 20 or 30 mph slower than nitro boats you gas folks wouldn't even be saying one word about this..........

Let me say it again- there is NOTHING wrong with combining boats at races but that decision should be up to the CD and/or host club in the interest of letting people race if you are SHORT of boats & NOT by someone thinking they can force this upon an event (like last year's Internats) because of how they choose to "interpret" the rulebook.

Fix the wording of the NITRO engine classes & leave any combining of classes up to the CD or host club if it is needed so people can run.

 

[Lamar_Huff]

Joe W said:

"Hey Don..... You back on the ground yet???? Lets move over to the race section & ask Lamar if Atlanta ( Spring race C.D. Mr Morton) is going to let the GAS Boaters gun in the F Mono classses."

Norman is the CD for the event so he would be the one to go to for further clarification of the class designations for the Spring Nats.

Later,

Lamar

 

[Chris Herzog]

Hey Joe W.

I have a Gas Mono and a Gas Rigger that I'll go 6 with you in Slidell any time you want. Hell I'll go 6 with you on any lake. You know I have some fast stuff I'm not scared!!!! YOU?

Chris Herzog

 

[Chris Herzog]

Oh yea...Mr Don F,

I have a Zenoah that runs on FAI fuel, are you ok with me running this with your little nitro boats. It seems I'm not allowed in the gas class because it's not gas in the tank, so the F class is the only IMPBA class I can race it in. Is it OK with you if I run with you guys? I'll bring it to atlanta if you want and you can check it out if you like.

Sorry guy, weather you want it to or not, F is the only class I can run it in and I intend to do so. Suck it up and stop all the **** crying. Years ago when the gas guys wanted their own class, it was because they were 20, 30, and 40mph slower than they are now. It's only natural that we would want to get back in the F class since we have come such a long way. Oh and if you don't like the way the rules are written in the book, do something about it. We didn't like some of the gas rules and we fixed that problem, we have a complete set of new rules for the 05 season.

Chris Herzog

 

[Don Ferrette]

Oh and if you don't like the way the rules are written in the book, do something about it. We didn't like some of the gas rules and we fixed that problem, we have a complete set of new rules for the 05 season.

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What do you think I'm trying to do??? Problem is that the voting majority of the IMPBA directors are now gas guys who seem to think this double standard is ok. And BTW- if you'd bother to actually read what I wrote then you'd see I don't care if classes are mixed as long as it's up to the CD or host club & not by someone trying to force the issue. You gas guys did a real good job covering your a$$es to eliminate any possiblilty of a nitro guy trying to enter a gas class but are the first to ***** when it goes the other way. If that's the way it going to be then it either goes both ways or not at all. Bring your FIA wacker to Atlanta, since you can't run it in gas class 'cause it's not gasoline powered then by all means run in F. Hope that when this loophole finally gets closed you can fit a glow plug in that thing....

 

[Chris Herzog]

So it's my ignition system that has you all bothered and not the weight, size of the prop, the holes I make or the fact that you think that I'm going to be in your way?

Make up your mine on what's bothering you! Your going to get all these other guys confused on what it is that you are complaining about.

You see for me Don, I never had a problem waxing a guy's ass at the lake with the same thing that he had....That is and never was a problem. I personally like to take a big chunk of metal that I can go cut my grass with and put it in a boat and dog the piss out of a loud mouth's ass all day long at the lake. That sorta make me happy and feel all warm on the inside! I will be in Atlanta and I hope to meet you there

C Herzog

 

[Scott Schneider]

Well ....... It would seem that the statement of running big nitro engines was a macho issue ... I rest my case ... Joe had the last word there.

Never was it said Gas boats are Faster or Handle better :huh:

What important here for those of us that race, either IMPBA, NAMBA or APBA, Is that we are racing.

In the top displacement class's if you feel your Crap don't stink, and you want to prove it running a nitro engine powered boat ... So be it.

If on the other hand you think a gasser is your engine of choice ... it should be allowed.

From what I read by the posts that the nitro guys are in NO WAY intimidated by a gas boat ... An easy kill !!

The gas guys are willing to race a nitro boat and willing to be humbled in loseing to one.

:unsure: :unsure: So WTF ???? Are you nitro guys so thin skinned that "IF" you lost to a gasser you would go shoot yourself ??

The gas guys willing to race against you are just as passionate.

:huh: I don't race under IMPBA but do relate to what is going on.

I would think that the hard core long time "F" hydro guys would love to see the class as it has been ( Nitro only) But like all evolution, factors come up that change the issue. Gas is here, like it or not, either welcome the evolution or step aside ... gas is not going anywhere but to a pond near you.

Scott

 

[Mike G]

A lot of you guys know I'm from "the other board" lets not drag it down just because it is a Gas board. Jim started that board when he was still running homelite engines as a place to get more imformation flowing. Gas was relatively small back then and treated like a rotten step child, Jim actually went out on a limb for it. If anybody needs help logging in over there just let me know!

As for the rest of the DISCUSSION, let people run in their classes, IF there is no specific class then let them run where they fit in best. Biggest thing is to let them race! I would thing more numbers in any race would just make it more competitive?