"F" hydro

[360modena]

Hey Eric,

Well put my friend. Many thanks for such a post. Looking forward to seeing you soon.

Best Regards,

Virgil

 

[Don Ferrette]

Write a rule proposal and submit it to your director to present to the board.  Don you complained last year about the gas boats being alowed to run in US -1, F classes and how that was going to ruin the event.  Gas ran and guess what no one had a problem with the gas guys running.  It was one of few INTERNATS that after the fact there were not a lot of complaints. 
It is simple when you HOST an event YOU CAN CHOOSE to not allow GAS boats to run in any class you wish, or if you don't like red boats (or any other color) you can also not allow red boats just post it on the entry flyer and you can have it your way.  Easy with no rule changes. 

DO it run a race or submit a proposal to the board for th echange you want quit bit3hing about everything online and actually do something to help out.  I know you helped at the 1999 Internats but so did a lot of members and districts.

RULES DO NOT HAVE TO BE CHANGED EVERYTIME SOMEONE DOESN"T LIKE THE RULES. 

There you go Don you got my comment.

Bill Zuber

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For starters I didn't say that gas in F class would ruin the event. I said it wasn't right or fair since gas now had thier own EXCULSIVE event, so get it right.

And BTW Bill- nice tip toe job around the only question I asked you so I'll ask it again-

All I ever wanted was to see is EQUALITY & FAIRNESS. You tell me Bill exactly how it is FAIR that a gas boat can force it's way into a nitro class but a nitro guy cannot go "mix it up" at a gas race???

As for your comment about rules not getting changed eveytime someone doesn't like them? Gimme a break. I'll tell you again to go look at the current poll-

http://www.intlwaters.com/index.php?showtopic=8520

So it ain't just me pal. There are alot of boaters, gas & nitro, that want this "grey area" fixed. Read Chris H.'s post on there as an example.

As for your comment to quit bitchin' on line & do something. Well buddy get with the times. The online forum has proven itself as THE best form of getting it done, finally getting the noise rule moving again is a perfect example.

Someone made a comment that it is a way to see how they stand up to the nitro big dogs. Well there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, that's what the OPEN classes are for. So I will close with a few short sentences so they are easier to understand as some seem to miss the point-

I like gas boats. I have run gas boats & done well with them ('99 Internats gas hydro winner for example). I will most likely do it again. I hate the "us vs. them" mentality in the gas/nitro topics. I don't care if I run against gas boats (again that's what OPEN classes are for). I have alot of friends who run gas boats. Most agree the nitro rules need fixing. All I'm asking is the rules be FAIR for BOTH sides. Right now I feel they are not.

Well there you have it. And yes Mr. Zuber you can COUNT on the proposal coming. It will be well thought out. Perhaps more along the lines of adding the following to the nitro displacement chart-

"Nitro or alcohol fuels only. No gasoline or gasoline blends permitted."

This will not penalize someone who gets turned away by the gas rules if they are smart enough to get a Zen running well on alky or nitro.

HAVE A NICE DAY.

 

[CC Racing Engines]

Again here is the quote from Joe Warren:

Looks like after a conversation with the New Slidell Lousianna Club director. The Gas boaters will run in OPEN Classes if they want to mix it up with the Nitro boats @ the Spring Extravazanga Race March 19-20....... As for the Hydro Invite Race in November..... Either the same will be posted on the Race Flier or a NITRO Only Race....... SEEMS THE TABLES ARE TURNING.....

I guess the above quote is inaccurate.

Mr Virgil Ericksen,

Again you talk out of both sides of your mouth and sugar coat it to make yourself look better. Sorry, I am not one of those guys who like to put up with a B.S. artist you can act like as much of a dignitary as you want on this board, but I know better. Joe Warren is not a member of our club nor was he at the meeting the other night, he does not even live in Louisiana. I would just like you tell me were he may have gotten the idea that the Hydro Invitational could wind up being an all nitro race and that the tables are turning, if not straight out of your mouth? Oh, never mind, he says plain as day he spoke to you about it. So, if this was not your intention then why mention it to someone who is not a member of the club other then to brag about what you have planned and to express your negativity towards the gas fraction of the club. :angry:

Also you never directed the Nitro only Hydro Invitational question to me you directed it to Chris Herzog who said he would have no problem with the race being an all nitro race. He like me is completely done with all of this. I am not mad and actually have got to laugh at how little has changed in this club in the 8 years I have been involved. I will watch the F Hydro class as a spectator and enjoy it to the fullest. I have no problem with any of the F Hydro guys and wish them a enjoyable trip while they are here in LA.

You guys have a good nite.

Carlo

CC Racing Engines

Former S.G.R.A. secretary

 

[Joe Warren]

Carlo. Your problem within your club is Your problem..... Not Mine....... I`am sure you guys will figure it out. There will be a Ton of Racing in Lousianna in 2005. As for the entries for the Spring race. You can bet I`ll be in F & Open Hydro..... I have been racing for about 5 years & have been coming to Slidell Since 2000. I have Never meet you @ the Drivers Stand. I have spoken to Chris off the net & we have No Problems..... Chris Busted his Ass in 04 for both the races I attended. I thanked Him for that. Just incase it went unnoticed.. He is a Hard Worker.... & deserves the recognition for his Work Efforts.. Both races were Fine Races. Seems several boaters Do Want the Gas Hydro & Mono`s in Open classes. I could care less. I have raced many races & never Worried Who was coming to the Line.... Gas, Nitro, Alky, Twin -Single. Mr Johnson, Mr Brown, Mr Whoever.... Makes No Difference to me..... We Never plan to Win!!! But We Dam sure Plan to Race....... As for Virgil. I get to see the guy 4 days a Year....... Both @ the Lousianna Race. I have a lot of Respect for Him as I do for all Slidell Club members....... We have had some GREAT races there. Most Out of towners there are Gun Slingers. Some of the best in the Country have attended the Slidell races. If you want to Race Prepare your Boats....thats what we are doing. If you want to talk call Me. I am in the IMPBA Book. B) Joe Warren WARREN RACING MEMPHIS TN.

 

[P THOMAS]

I posted this on another topic it fits here too

just some ideas i have on this might not be correct from everyones view just what i think.

Rulebook No/ Flyers Yes

Dont need to tell a club what to do, most know what is in thier best intrest.

The view of this issue is quite different from other parts of the country.

Gas racers in many areas are not in a position to run a race, so have to rely on the nitro clubs for the chance to start racing.

Most of the established clubs, running races would have more nitro than gas.

Adding classes can be a time problem for some races that want to run 4-5 rounds on a weekend.

A nitro club that will run open to gas F classes encourages growth of the club, which is good. When the gas population gets big enough to go on with its own races the club benifits from more race dates and more time to run more racing rounds.

Some clubs/races have strong nitro and gas classes, some have weak nitro but strong gas classes, or strong intrest in gas and less or no nitro intrest.

With the growing intrest in gas all clubs will have members wanting to run and race gas boats.

Races I frequent have mostly nitro classes and gas classes that they know will intrest and draw some gas racers in, like open gas mono, open gas hydro or gas cat or gas sport hydro.

So the nitro guys have something to gain from gas boaters but have to watch out for the nitro guys not being overwhelmed by the upcoming gas boaters.

The we cant run nitro in gas is just whineing BS, sorry.

 

[riph]

This post is beginning to remind me of the late nights in the 80's that I listened to the 18 Wheeler's CB radios just to stay awake on the way to a race. Does this remind anyone else of the ole CB network?? Its very simple guys. At this point any motor that is 30cc or less can run in the F mono and hydro classes. If the nitro guys want to add ignition and run gas in their F nitro motors, they can race in the Gas classes. Pretty simple don't you think??

If you do not want the 30cc gas motors to run in the F classes then submit a proposal to change the rules. We decided that our existing Gas rules had a few holes and gray areas and put together a proposal to solve the problems. I started the effort in July 2004. After organizing a rules committee we began to write drafts and contact members that ran gas boats nationwide. I believe the final draft that was submitted to the Board by the National Gas Director was about draft #Y. It was submitted for the last Executive Board meeting and approved by the board for a one year trial period. It is suppose to be in the March Roostertail. After the one year trial if will be review and modified if necessary and then will go to the members for a vote about March 2006.

So guys there is your outline for changing the rules. Get to work..

Actually the present rule that allows the Gas powered boats to run in the F classes does not seem to be a problem at most races. In District 7 the nitro classes have declined so much we have to run gas boats in the F classes to make a class. The majority ballot you keep refering to only has a few people voting. Heck they could all be from the same club. I personally do not think a proposal to eliminate Gas engines from running in the F classes will pass nationwide, but my suggestion is to give it a try.

 

[Don Ferrette]

"A nitro club that will run open to gas F classes encourages growth of the club, which is good. When the gas population gets big enough to go on with its own races the club benifits from more race dates and more time to run more racing rounds."

And it's been done for a long time with the "OPEN class". I have NEVER been one to not encourage growth in any form. The mere suggestion that this will stifle growth is rediculous, the gas classes have exploded to the point there are about the same number of classes as nitro. Some of you seem to be dissecting this down to a local level to make your arguement more advantageous. This has nothing to do with local level racing. If some of you would actually take the time to READ alot of these posts you would see that. I have no problem running with gas boats at a local level, we do it all the time. What I do have a problem with is that on a NATIONAL level it is accepted that the Gas Nats are gas only but for some odd reason the same option is not given to the nitro racers at the Internats. THAT is what I am talking about. The only way to achieve this unfortunately is thru a rule change and/or correction since there seems to be a few out there who do not wish to respect the "intent" of the class. I'm sure that any gas racers go to the Gas Nats to compete against the best the given gas class or classes they run in has to offer. They want to see how they "stack up" against other gas hydros, gas cats, monos whatever. They certainly don't even consider the thought of running against a nitro boat. I want to go to an Internats to see how I "stack up" against the best nitro boats in the IMPBA, as do many others. This is what I mean about being fair, if a gas boater can go to his/her NATIONAL event knowing the classes they run will be "purely gas" why is the nitro boater going to his/her NATIONAL event not given the SAME option? If some are so hell bent on letting a couple gas boats that might show up run with nitro then have an open class. What is wrong with that?? :blink:

 

[Preston_Hall]

Carlo,

A bit of advice, that attitude will get you no where and it will only eventually irritate people (can you tell? :lol: ). It seems you are only trying to slam Virgil now. Were you the only gas guy offended by what was supposingly said? Call Dr. Phil.

Don,

Lighten up on Zuber. He is no punching bag and he can't change the rule book. It doesn't matter what his views are on the situation, right or wrong, we the boaters will have to be the ones to propose this and have it changed. The nitro & gas factions will then have their vote "say so". Yup, all 50 members who vote will have their say-so. :lol:

What happened with adding the word "glow" instead of "nitro/alcohol"? I think that wording might still leave the door open. Would "glow" not be better? Or maybe just put both. And while we are at it, all mention of gas in the specialized nitro classes should be removed. That is just silly.

I like the way Brad summed things up,

The two classes are different. One is not better than the other. Not faster. Just different.

. I tend to favor the idea that a tunnel, cat, sport 40, 1/8 scale, etc. should be just that and not a hydro at events where both classes are offered. Wouldn't that be the same idea as the gas engines having their own class?
Oh well, none of this means squat anyway. It doesn't matter what the rulebook says because most don't even know what it is much less folow it. Also, clubs do what they want in the first place. I agree, the IMPBA agrees.

 

[bzubee]

Thanks Preston,

One more iron to throw in Remeber when you have an open class that means anytype of propulsion i.e. Fast Electric , GAS, Steam or Nitro. If you remember in the past there used to be a problem similar to this with Outboard Tunnel Hulls running in the Hydro classes so clubs solved by putting "no Outboard tunnel hulls allowed in Hydro classes" on the entry flyers. Problem was solved!

 

[P THOMAS]

Don writes

What I do have a problem with is that on a NATIONAL level it is accepted that the Gas Nats are gas only but for some odd reason the same option is not given to the nitro racers at the Internats. THAT is what I am talking about. The only way to achieve this unfortunately is thru a rule change and/or correction since there seems to be a few out there who do not wish to respect the "intent" of the class.

Yes the internats should be nitro only but i think the clubs should not be discouraged from allowing gas F boats

PHIL

 

[BigChuck]

Observation: The rules are NOT FOOL PROOF.......... We can see that!!!!!!!!!!!!

Again what I find interesting is that Prior to this years election Impba members and Presidental candidate KNEW that ALL of this EXSISTED!!!!!!!!!!! Yet the ORganization is reallying on members to send in the rule changes. To me that is like asking all the DODGE TEAMS in nascar to send in the rules. DODGE get their spoliers back and everyone else gets less.

Will that what has happened here.

The new and old rules concerning gas power motors where written to allow gas power motor only. But seprate a Qwikdraw from a Zen. Now Zen can go to the XLS class but QD'S can't come back to LS class. Pulleys and belts on Gas motors for starting. But pulley and belt started motors can't go back. Gas power motors into F-mono but F-mono can't go back. The bolt on head botton rule for XLS but a bolt on head botton motor can't go to XLS.............. FUEL BC!!!!!!!!!!!!! Well the PREZ said "INTENT" of the rule.

Will the Governing body: with it TECHNIAL COMMITTE get with IT RULES COMMITTE and INFORM the MEMBERS: The rules are being looked at as to better accomadate all parties. Member are going to do a good job. But the deck will be stacked.

Oh, yeh I almost forgot the open class thing. Well for me its all a JOKE. I own a QD

and f-mono. Oh..........I know ,race myself :blink: :blink:

 

[riph]

Hey guys we are about out of Banwidth. It must be this Nitro-Gas BS. :huh: Why don't we delete this complete worn out post??

 

[EatMyShortsRacing]

There are 2 parts to the law.... the LETTER of the law and the SPIRIT of the law.

The Letter of the law is taking the literal words and making a conclusion based on the exact wording.

The Spirit of the law is what the law was meant to enforce and although the wording may not be perfect the intent is well known.

If you are going to use the loopholes in current rulebooks to get your own way like getting Gas into Nitro (or historically and classically nitro classes) then it is simple: [SIZE=16pt]YOU ARE NOT ADHERING TO THE SPIRIT OF THE LAW[/SIZE]. You all know the rules were written for nitro boats, and anyone who tries to deny that is an out and out liar!!!

The spirit of the law is important because it also means trust between participants under that law - a trust that that law wont be turned inside out and used however perversely against you. Personally I believe that once someone goes against the spirit of the law they go against the spirit of fair play and fair racing.

 

[brooks93]

so that means I can come with a F size Electric boat and run with the nitro's and gas.. interesting

any chance of letting the electric guys run a round or two with our 1/8th scales.. we follow all the same rules as your 1/8ths just a different power plant.. and less noise of course

 

[brooks93]

oops did I kill the thread with that comment

 

[Don Ferrette]

oops did I kill the thread with that comment

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Letting the thread go for now & working on the proposal instead.