Dsm vs 75

[Tom Foley]

Who is responsible for starting the process of banning 75 mghz radios for use in NAMBA competition but not for pleasure running , testing , at the same lake ?

 

[Bill Gibson]

I dont think you will ever get an answer from anyone responsible for this decision in NAMBA......kinda like the way our Government works now aint it!??

 

[LohringMiller]

I'm the safety director so you can blame me. I had no input into the decision, though. The new radios are vastly safer than the old ones on the lower frequencies. No one has run 75 MHz radios in the NAMBA Nationals or in my district for years.

Lohring Miller

 

[Mark Anderson]

That decision came from the board. As per the rule book Non-racing rules can be changed by the board without a membership vote. Your District Director is on the board. Have you spoken with your District Director about it? What was their response?

 

[Tom Foley]

That decision came from the board. As per the rule book Non-racing rules can be changed by the board without a membership vote. Your District Director is on the board. Have you spoken with your District Director about it? What was their response?

I have not on that specific issue . As far as safety??? You mean like the range issues people were having at Huntsville on 2.4 but not on 75 that resulted in destruction of a tunnel hull boat ? Ok , perceived superiority because it's newer and costs more . I have 3 DSM 3 PK radios and have never used them because I have had no reason to . Problems are caused by the setup of the system in the case of 75 not the system. I have to set them up now and use them . Hopefully no.problems arise .

 

[Wasted wages]

Tom,,

To be fair, Huntsville has claimed its fair share of boats over the years.. both 75mz and DSM.. I know of three...

 

[Mark Anderson]

Failures with DSM are the same as 75mhz. 99% user error. Most of the problems that I have seen fall into 3 catagories 1) Antenna in the radio box or other wise not clear of radio blocking parts. On 75 mhz you would never try that. Why would you with 2.4? I don't get it. I velcro the reciever to the lid right beside the antenna tube. I use the standard antennas, but make sure it is taller then any metal on the boat. If it can't be, I switch to a long antenna. 2 )inadequate reciever pack. It was a problem with 75 band too, it was just masked by the quick relink of mhz systems. AAA cells were never able to supply enough amps. Seriously look at the rated discharge of any high capacity NIMH cell. You will be shocked. 3) Using cheap off brand equipment (Some of it with out FCC compliance certs.)
I know people that get away with all of those, but why would you not make every attempt to make sure you have a robust link with your boat., car, aircraft?
While I didn't say anything about safety, I do feel that not having the risk of another radio being turned on is a better situation. I see far less run aways at races then in the past.

 

[Jeff Lutz]

People‘s driving is a much bigger problem than the frequency they run…..

 

[Tom Foley]

People‘s driving is a much bigger problem than the frequency they run…..

I get the dig Jeff and I am extremely sorry and regretful of that incident at the last race as you know . It was a mistake in judgment in the time it would take for the boat to completely settle in the water. Upon inspection the throttle was not completely closing . I have rectified the problem 100 % . I offered some compensation to help out with paint cost etc and you graciously refused . Once again I'm sorry . If it makes you feel any better my perfect., new 67 Roadrunner was a called dead boat and still was run over in the last race at Brandon trashing front and rear sponsons .

 

[Tom Foley]

Failures with DSM are the same as 75mhz. 99% user error. Most of the problems that I have seen fall into 3 catagories 1) Antenna in the radio box or other wise not clear of radio blocking parts. On 75 mhz you would never try that. Why would you with 2.4? I don't get it. I velcro the reciever to the lid right beside the antenna tube. I use the standard antennas, but make sure it is taller then any metal on the boat. If it can't be, I switch to a long antenna. 2 )inadequate reciever pack. It was a problem with 75 band too, it was just masked by the quick relink of mhz systems. AAA cells were never able to supply enough amps. Seriously look at the rated discharge of any high capacity NIMH cell. You will be shocked. 3) Using cheap off brand equipment (Some of it with out FCC compliance certs.)
I know people that get away with all of those, but why would you not make every attempt to make sure you have a robust link with your boat., car, aircraft?
While I didn't say anything about safety, I do feel that not having the risk of another radio being turned on is a better situation. I see far less run aways at races then in the past.

I can see your point about the risk of turning another radio on as it is a remote possibility. The die is cast and I must change if I want to race in Namba which is my home lakes choice so I will . It's a little like the feeling of some homeowners association telling you you can't work on your car in your driveway..... Whatever, I'm over it .

 

[Joe Warren]

That decision came from the board. As per the rule book Non-racing rules can be changed by the board without a membership vote. Your District Director is on the board. Have you spoken with your District Director about it? What was their response?

TOM here is the BINGO!!

 

[Mark Bullard]

Huntsville is a very large lake. We have about 800' from the number 2 bouy to the dam, and about 1100' to the bank off of bouy 5. Your radio setup better be right in any type 75 or 2.4. Our lake is a lot larger than most of the lakes we run on around the country. That is why we have most of the straight away records.

 

[Mike Hughes]

Huntsville is a very large lake. We have about 800' from the number 2 bouy to the dam, and about 1100' to the bank off of bouy 5. Your radio setup better be right in any type 75 or 2.4. Our lake is a lot larger than most of the lakes we run on around the country. That is why we have most of the straight away records.

Those were my thoughts when I was at Huntsville over the years. If you have a problem with your radio at range, you might not see it until your able to get to that range. Your radio works good enough so you dont see the problem at our normal race sites. I did see 2 boats lose signal. Both of which were at the extreme ends of the lake. Ones was Stu's. His turn out to be a bad antenna in his transmitter.
Mike

 

[LohringMiller]

I was the only person running a Spectrum module on my JR radio at the NAMBA Nationals years ago. I had no range issues at that race or at local races. However, on the river at Mike Bontoft's house, I was able to run far enough down the river to loose radio. I'm sure the 2.4 radios have shorter range on the ground than the 75 radios. If you race around a course, why should you get far enough away to notice?

Lohring Miller

 

[Jeff Lutz]

I get the dig Jeff and I am extremely sorry and regretful of that incident at the last race as you know . It was a mistake in judgment in the time it would take for the boat to completely settle in the water. Upon inspection the throttle was not completely closing . I have rectified the problem 100 % . I offered some compensation to help out with paint cost etc and you graciously refused . Once again I'm sorry . If it makes you feel any better my perfect., new 67 Roadrunner was a called dead boat and still was run over in the last race at Brandon trashing front and rear sponsons .

Tom, I’m not referring to you hitting me at the dock. You well apologized and I know you felt bad and I havent publicly spoke about that and THANK YOU for apologizing , not every does. However, after one of the Brandon races you spoke right here on IW about how many buoys you saw hit and how boaters could work on their driving is one example. Now, 6 boats getting hit at Voodoo at the dock was unreal and should never happen again. Very sorry to hear of your 60 boat. At Huntsville one year multiple boats hit the banks and some had nothing to do with radio problems . It was bad driving also. I have never had a failure on DSM . I went ultra deep at Huntsville this past summer up there also. Years back the facts are that someone turned on a radio (old system same channel number) and a wild boat came and hit a man on the dock and hurt him. (The story I heard was the man that got hit was the one that turned on the radio). That is something that won’t happen on DSM as a example. I will say though, I’m not in favor of the mandate that you can’t run your old system and I’m glad Impba has not done this.

 

[Tim Kish]

I get the dig Jeff and I am extremely sorry and regretful of that incident at the last race as you know . It was a mistake in judgment in the time it would take for the boat to completely settle in the water. Upon inspection the throttle was not completely closing . I have rectified the problem 100 % . I offered some compensation to help out with paint cost etc and you graciously refused . Once again I'm sorry . If it makes you feel any better my perfect., new 67 Roadrunner was a called dead boat and still was run over in the last race at Brandon trashing front and rear sponsons .

Classy move Tom, to many just walk away and say nothing!

 

[Tom Foley]

Tom, I’m not referring to you hitting me at the dock. You well apologized and I know you felt bad and I havent publicly spoke about that and THANK YOU for apologizing , not every does. However, after one of the Brandon races you spoke right here on IW about how many buoys you saw hit and how boaters could work on their driving is one example. Now, 6 boats getting hit at Voodoo at the dock was unreal and should never happen again. Very sorry to hear of your 60 boat. At Huntsville one year multiple boats hit the banks and some had nothing to do with radio problems . It was bad driving also. I have never had a failure on DSM . I went ultra deep at Huntsville this past summer up there also. Years back the facts are that someone turned on a radio (old system same channel number) and a wild boat came and hit a man on the dock and hurt him. (The story I heard was the man that got hit was the one that turned on the radio). That is something that won’t happen on DSM as a example. I will say though, I’m not in favor of the mandate that you can’t run your old system and I’m glad Impba has not done this.

OK Jeff fair enough , I thought I was the target which maybe I deserve . One of the reason I HATE coming in under the push to save time with all those boats there , just makes me nervous . Next time I'll shut it down further away that is for sure . Once again I'm very sorry and disappointed that happened . If I did speak up about hitting bouys then I was more than likely those hit during open water or mill laps that takes so much time to replace . Well I have started the conversion to 2.4 hope it works out well for me as it has for so many .

 

[Don Ferrette]

I switched to DSM (Futaba FASST) well over 10 years ago and still run the same system (4PKS and 603FS) and will continue to do so. In all the years of doing this I have had random but very rare issues with both DSM and 75 and only once was it an actual TX issue. Venom failsafes falsely triggering (that got pulled and tossed in the trash), weak cell in a pack, bad switch. Luckily none resulted in a ruined boat or hitting another. When dealing with good quality equipment range is about the same for 27/75 and 2.4 although I did hear about issues with the early Spektrum stuff. I never noticed any difference at record trials with either format and that's about as far away as you'll get with a boat. Regardless in my own personal opinion as long as the FCC says 27 or 75mhz is legal for what we do a boater should not be denied the right to use them and forced to spend big $$ to upgrade a fleet of boats.

 

[timothy johnson]

For me I think NAMBA has overstepped their authority simply because the FCC sets the rules for the radio gear not NAMBA. It appears NAMBAs rule change is a matter of race heat setup convenience and nothing else. At all the recent nitro races I have attended there have only been a few non DSM entries creating no issues. If a racers driving confidence is based on his/her radio choice NAMBA should allow that radio to be used.
As for DSM radio issues my friend Charlie and I experienced both our boats shutting of at the same spot in our lake multiple times. We actually did a test by shutting of our Fail Safe options and the problem did not occur again. This problem only happened once and has never happened again.
At a major Indiana race I attended which was at a small airport both my DSM boats had unintentional inputs at the same place on the course. One of my boats hit another. All of the radio gear checked out with no issues on shore. Non of the issues happened again.
My DSM radio is the Hitec Proton which seems to function very well. When the Hitec came out Danny King did a range comparison test at the Brandon FL lake and it's range seemed to be greater than many other radios.
Hopefully NAMBA will see these comments and reconsider their rule change.

 

[Mark Anderson]

The new rule does not go into effect until after the 2023 season. It was announced last year. 2 years warning seems ample. Should not put anyone in hardship. If you are so against it. Talk to your District Director and have him push back. They are your representative.
I originally started out on 72 band, they banned it from surface use. Bought new 75 mhz gear. Then had to junk that and switch to narrow band 75mhz equipment. So having to get rid of perfectly good gear is nothing new. Change happens. Put on a big race and you will appreciate not having to work around frequency conflicts.