Discussion on lowering nitro %

[Zimmerman]

Run GAS lot less nitro content. I want all the nitro i can get the engine to burn..

Gosh Joe ... I never would have guessed! BTW you still sitting on that twin .21 rigger?

 

[Timbo Whalen]

One of the things this post has proved is that it is harder than ever to have a DISCUSSION on a topic without personal wants over-taking the discussion. And basically try to CANCEL the discussion. IRONIC to say the least.
It was meant as a discussion, never meant to be meant as a mandate. But more along the lines of an open discussion and awareness of what’s possible. Many are under the false pretense that anyone fast is doing it with high nitro. Not true!!!
Yes higher nitro can be faster. But many things have to work to utilize it.
Just as with lower nitro many things have
To work with it.
As far as set up you really don’t need to do much. The ENGINES ARE NOT SET UP FOR HIGH NITRO FROM THE FACTORY!!!

Novarossi were the closest but still needed help.
Just pick your % and work with it. Same way you do with higher.
Head button
Timing
Pipe and pipe length
Props and props and props
Make the boat as efficient as possible
Engine temp
The same variables that you adjust to run high you will need to adjust to run lower.

A great set up beats high nitro head to head almost everytime.

Just saw this, Danny... and we'll add that this is one of most realistic, sane comments we've read on IW in a long time.

Crossing the centerline a bit now, I remember a few years back Andy doing a lot of study and testing on very minimal nitro and he got excellent results, in fact darn near equivalent to a higher nitro setup.

How many times does the most powerful boat win in any given class?
The percentages don't lie...and the higher the nitro, the higher the maintenance, AND!... longevity.

I know you've tested lower %'s and there's no doubting your results.
Plus, I've seen a 101 you built up close running 40%...and it's as stout as it gets, and smooth as hell.

Keep up the good work, buddy!

 

[shoboat]

Danny & Tim,

I agree about the best set up that you can make on your boats.
I know a few really fast guys running less nitro % and winning
a bunch of races and district championships here in District #2 in the Great Lakes region. Of course they also have great propeller boxes as well.

Enjoy The Weekend,

Mark

 

[Timbo Whalen]

Danny & Tim,

I agree about the best set up that you can make on your boats.
I know a few really fast guys running less nitro % and winning
a bunch of races and district championships here in District #2 in the Great Lakes region. Of course they also have great propeller boxes as well.

Enjoy The Weekend,

Mark

Oh yeah, propeller's are important, too.... one must have lots of propeller's.

 

[Wasted wages]

Bob Finn was a believer in using lower nitro..
We had several discussions about how he did things on his twin rigger..
And Bob ran plenty fast...In fact I have several of his .90 motors that he set up for low nitro..

 

[David Santistevan]

I used to run 60 and 65%, like so many I believed more nitro = more performance. I changed to 50% a couple of years back across the board and found that my boat rand much more consistently and I had less flame outs, burned less plugs. I can also say I did not notice any real overall performance difference either. We run at altitude and therefore we benefit a lot from the nitro. I would say there is a point of diminished returned for nitro levels and I suspect it is somewhere between 30%-50%.
D

 

[Gary Girvin]

Hi Guys, Back when I started racing (1974), the standard fuel was 40%. Our club bought 30 to 50 gallons of fuel each year. after 2 or 3 yrs, Ron Logge , whom we bought our from told us that using anything above 25% was spending more dollars than the performance gained on motors larger than
.45 cu. But the .21s really liked the higher nitro. After that I only used 25% on the larger motors and 55 to 60% on the .21s. That worked for me for almost 30 years. Thank you, Gary

 

[Steve White]

Leaves me wondering why the NHRA pro's run 90% with 60lbs of manifold boost in the 500" V8's?

Just sayin...

 

[Timbo Whalen]

Hi Guys, Back when I started racing (1974), the standard fuel was 40%. Our club bought 30 to 50 gallons of fuel each year. after 2 or 3 yrs, Ron Logge , whom we bought our from told us that using anything above 25% was spending more dollars than the performance gained on motors larger than
.45 cu. But the .21s really liked the higher nitro. After that I only used 25% on the larger motors and 55 to 60% on the .21s. That worked for me for almost 30 years. Thank you, Gary

Ron's Pro Power is/was my all time favorite fuel and The Prop Shop always had it in stock...that Ucon LB-625 synth oil he used is still my favorite oil, too.

 

[Timbo Whalen]

Leaves me wondering why the NHRA pro's run 90% with 60lbs of manifold boost in the 500" V8's?

Just sayin...

Mandated by NHRA...they'd run more if they could....apples n' oranges comparing a 500" TFX boosted engine vs atmospheric glow 2 stroke, too.

 

[Steve White]

Mandated by NHRA...they'd run more if they could....apples n' oranges comparing a 500" TFX boosted engine vs atmospheric glow 2 stroke, too.

Please quantify the "differences" relative to the fuel and performance. Maybe I should have referenced the 2 wheeled hill pro hill climbers - they run 4 strokes and 2 strokes on nitro.

Nitromethane is nitromethane and running it is running it.

Thx.

 

[Timbo Whalen]

Please quantify the "differences" relative to the fuel and performance. Maybe I should have referenced the 2 wheeled hill pro hill climbers - they run 4 strokes and 2 strokes on nitro.

Nitromethane is nitromethane and running it is running it.

Thx.

Already did.

 

[John Beardslee]

Please quantify the "differences" relative to the fuel and performance. Maybe I should have referenced the 2 wheeled hill pro hill climbers - they run 4 strokes and 2 strokes on nitro.

Nitromethane is nitromethane and running it is running it.

Thx.

Steve, the big difference is the glow plug part.
Ron & Gene Logghe were the first to run straight nitro in NHRA. ( 1964 west coast winter tour w/the Giant Killer) It was a naturally aspirated small block Chevy, the key was 60 degrees advanced ignition timing. When asked in California how they could do it, they told the truth (60 degrees) but no one believed them.
Our glow engines are basically a diesel engine.

 

[Steve White]

Steve, the big difference is the glow plug part.
Ron & Gene Logghe were the first to run straight nitro in NHRA. ( 1964 west coast winter tour w/the Giant Killer) It was a naturally aspirated small block Chevy, the key was 60 degrees advanced ignition timing. When asked in California how they could do it, they told the truth (60 degrees) but no one believed them.
Our glow engines are basically a diesel engine.

Correct. To manage the heat from higher nitromethane fuels takes static CR and operating temperature adjustments. The farther up the hill one goes, the more critical things become. That being said there are heat ranges for glow plugs and managing things (static CR & operating temperature) isn't that difficult - however it's not for less experienced modelers.

I run 40% for heat racing and it works out well.

Yep, they did the same with the drag boats - 60 on the mag and put the can to it.

 

[Timbo Whalen]

Steve, the big difference is the glow plug part.
Ron & Gene Logghe were the first to run straight nitro in NHRA. ( 1964 west coast winter tour w/the Giant Killer) It was a naturally aspirated small block Chevy, the key was 60 degrees advanced ignition timing. When asked in California how they could do it, they told the truth (60 degrees) but no one believed them.
Our glow engines are basically a diesel engine.

Those Logghe Bros., IMO, deserve more credit than they got.
As you know, John, they were powerhouses in the Detroit drag racing scene, along with the Prock clan and the Bounty Hunter.

Without getting into a long discourse on nitromethane and monopropellents, the nitro gurus- such as Snake and Dale Armstrong- found that the magic number was 98%.
In fact, those 2 guys figured out how to inject nitrous oxide right into the nitromethane fuel pumps...and the NHRA caught them. Snake, to this day, shys away from talking about it.

Steve, here's a layman's article with regard to nitromethane as a fuel. You may find it of interest-

What Is Nitromethane, Anyway?

You can search IW for some interesting research Andy Brown did a while back, and it's worth the read.

 

[John Beardslee]

Those Logghe Bros., IMO, deserve more credit than they got.
As you know, John, they were powerhouses in the Detroit drag racing scene, along with the Prock clan and the Bounty Hunter.

Without getting into a long discourse on nitromethane and monopropellents, the nitro gurus- such as Snake and Dale Armstrong- found that the magic number was 98%.
In fact, those 2 guys figured out how to inject nitrous oxide right into the nitromethane fuel pumps...and the NHRA caught them. Snake, to this day, shys away from talking about it.

Steve, here's a layman's article with regard to nitromethane as a fuel. You may find it of interest-

What Is Nitromethane, Anyway?

You can search IW for some interesting research Andy Brown did a while back, and it's worth the read.

Well, Ron & Gene are in Michigan Motorsports HOF, NHRA HOF, and last year the International Drag Racing HOF. My friendship with them started in 1968, sure miss them!

 

[Tom Foley]

Those Logghe Bros., IMO, deserve more credit than they got.
As you know, John, they were powerhouses in the Detroit drag racing scene, along with the Prock clan and the Bounty Hunter.

Without getting into a long discourse on nitromethane and monopropellents, the nitro gurus- such as Snake and Dale Armstrong- found that the magic number was 98%.
In fact, those 2 guys figured out how to inject nitrous oxide right into the nitromethane fuel pumps...and the NHRA caught them. Snake, to this day, shys away from talking about it.

Steve, here's a layman's article with regard to nitromethane as a fuel. You may find it of interest-

What Is Nitromethane, Anyway?

You can search IW for some interesting research Andy Brown did a while back, and it's worth the read.

Im like the pot calling the kettle black lol as I run 60 % in everything but am trying to cut down a little in the big block stuff but I believe it relates to the rotatational time available for the flame front to make its way across a larger diameter combustion chamber . In a .21 you have such a much smaller area to cover with the flame propagation than in a 1.01. The time it takes to travel a given distance may lead to unburned fuel at a given rpm .

 

[Steve White]

Im like the pot calling the kettle black lol as I run 60 % in everything but am trying to cut down a little in the big block stuff but I believe it relates to the rotatational time available for the flame front to make its way across a larger diameter combustion chamber . In a .21 you have such a much smaller area to cover with the flame propagation than in a 1.01. The time it takes to travel a given distance may lead to unburned fuel at a given rpm .

That's an interesting thought. They larger motors run at a lower peak RPM which equates to the time period being longer.

 

[Tom Foley]

That's an interesting thought. They larger motors run at a lower peak RPM which equates to the time period being longer.

But the more nitro you run the longer it will take to burn which turns into degrees of rotation at a given rpm . The trick is to burn all the nitro you put in the fuel . Some guys are using multi plug heads , pulling plug elements out to advance timing , restricting water cooling etc .

 

[Norm Doerr]

Those Logghe Bros., IMO, deserve more credit than they got.
As you know, John, they were powerhouses in the Detroit drag racing scene, along with the Prock clan and the Bounty Hunter.

Without getting into a long discourse on nitromethane and monopropellents, the nitro gurus- such as Snake and Dale Armstrong- found that the magic number was 98%.
In fact, those 2 guys figured out how to inject nitrous oxide right into the nitromethane fuel pumps...and the NHRA caught them. Snake, to this day, shys away from talking about it.

Steve, here's a layman's article with regard to nitromethane as a fuel. You may find it of interest-

What Is Nitromethane, Anyway?

You can search IW for some interesting research Andy Brown did a while back, and it's worth the read.

[/QUOTE Snake never ran nitrous. The bottle and plumbing to the fuel pump was all "show", including the procedure of turning the valve on before a pass. When he ran the the low 5.6 pass at Indy in 1982 there was nothing in the bottle. He confirmed this many times most recently in his book "Don "The Snake" Prudhomme: My Life Beyond the 1320".