Discussion on lowering nitro %

[dwilfong]

What is so horribly wrong with running 30to 40% nitro in our toy race boats? I run 60% in my boats, but have zero problems with dropping down if it saves a little money and draws people in.......maybe it wont do a thing to help the current situation, but it beats the hell out of doing nothing at all other than sitting back and watching the hobby simply die!

It will die any way so just lay down and say uncle? YA Ok ......LMAO

 

[Bill Gibson]

It will die any way so just lay down and say uncle? YA Ok ......LMAO

Not me Man.......I'd much rather go down SWINGIN' !

 

[dwilfong]

The biggest problem is all those wanting to relive the glory days. Time to wake up......If we do not gather up and share we are doomed. The days of race teams are gone. The days of nothing but nitro boats ruleing the water are gone. Point in case Danny how hard is it to share what your 45 set up is?????? Then you come on here and start this???? Please!!!!!!!! .... I know shut the F up Dave......O ya I have had a few sitting at the bar Allen

 

[Norm Doerr]

Well the bank is almost empty. So what will it be worth then??????

Never mind.

 

[dwilfong]

Never mind.

YUP!!!!!!

 

[dwilfong]

So one world order low nitro for all......
Sorry But it ain't nitro if you don't take it to the limit......
Gas for all......then comes electric.
NITRO BABY!!!!!!!!!!! NITRO!!!!

 

[dwilfong]

Don should I starts off where I started 10+ years ago with Hydrzine BS when the Chinese stoped nitro production to clean the air for the Olympics?

 

[dwilfong]

Jerry you going to bring your 30% set up to Miami?

 

[Al Hobbs]

Several years ago, NAMBA District 9, northern California, decided to only run 10% nitro content fuel at their events. The host club provided the fuel for everyone. From what I was told, there were a few problems. But, that test was dropped and now everyone running nitro there runs what they want again.

Remember, most IMPBA and NAMBA members are not hard core racers. The biggest percentage of members run for fun, or just run at club races. The serious racers that travel to District, Regional and National events aren't as worried about the price of nitro as they are about the price of the hotel rooms, restaurants, and other travel expenses.

The model boaters that run for fun or at club events can run lower nitro content fuel to save a few dollars, but the hardcore racers are going to push the limits with engine mods, high nitro, top of the line radio gear, etc. They are more interested in the best performance than they are interested in saving $25.00 for a weekend's fuel supply.

I have been mixing my own fuel for the last 40 years, and I will run 50% to 60% nitro content fuel as long as I can continue to buy the nitro. I know exactly what I have, how old it is, and what oil is used. When you buy commercially made fuel, it differs from one supplier to the next determined by how they measure the nitro content, what oil is used, the percentage of oil, and how old the components are.

Find a fuel you like and stick with it the best you can.

 

[dwilfong]

Eric you put in for 16 clases for the Miami race to run 30%?????

 

[dwilfong]

Several years ago, NAMBA District 9, northern California, decided to only run 10% nitro content fuel at their events. The host club provided the fuel for everyone. From what I was told, there were a few problems. But, that test was dropped and now everyone running nitro there runs what they want again.

Remember, most IMPBA and NAMBA members are not hard core racers. The biggest percentage of members run for fun, or just run at club races. The serious racers that travel to District, Regional and National events aren't as worried about the price of nitro as they are about the price of the hotel rooms, restaurants, and other travel expenses.

The model boaters that run for fun or at club events can run lower nitro content fuel to save a few dollars, but the hardcore racers are going to push the limits with engine mods, high nitro, top of the line radio gear, etc. They are more interested in the best performance than they are interested in saving $25.00 for a weekend's fuel supply.

I have been mixing my own fuel for the last 40 years, and I will run 50% to 60% nitro content fuel as long as I can continue to buy the nitro. I know exactly what I have, how old it is, and what oil is used. When you buy commercially made fuel, it differs from one supplier to the next determined by how they measure the nitro content, what oil is used, the percentage of oil, and how old the components are.

Find a fuel you like and stick with it the best you can.

Amen

 

[Wasted wages]

I think some of us are missing the point.
No one is saying limit nitro content. You want to run high nitro...fine, run it.
But my point is there already people out there that run lower percent nitro purposely, because they build their engines to be torque monsters.

Then they set up the boat to use the torque to spin large cupped up props. They don't need to spin the engine to the moon to do the same work.

I know a few people that have very successful twins set up this way. they have a totally different sound,,, the roostertail even looks completely different due to the props being used more efficiently. And most importantly, they launch and return to the dock when the race is finished...

Wear and tear is reduced overall on the boat too,,, fuel, plugs, bearings, internal engine part failure costs are all reduced.

So, if there are some people who run 25% in engines that can and do remain competitive against others running high nitro, what's the issue ? Nobody is saying that we all have to run low nitro at this point, but if it keeps the hobby alive, I'm OK with making the changes needed.
Just adding liquid HP is easy,,, doing the necessary research, modifications, adjustments etc. to run lower nitro and still remain competitive, well that takes a little more brain power.

Look what happened when the NHRA cut the quarter mile down to 1000 ft and reduced
nitro % allowed.... do you think the crew chief and designers just said f*ck it.. guess we will just watch the nitro classes die now....
Nope.. they jumped in with both feet and figured it out, and the cars are running faster in 1000 ft then they did in the quarter!!! and break a lot less parts too!!

I still believe that nitro racers will find a way to run even if the government bans nitro consumption to the general public.
What is killing this hobby is the youth of today that want instant gratification, and don't have the mechanical skills to build or maintain a boat. If they can't just buy it or look up the answer to an issue on their cell phone, then the boat must be junk and gets thrown in the corner or sold on ebay.

 

[Grimracer]

Cost for model marine supply's has little to do with the decline of model boat racing. THAT IS the wake up!

Grim

 

[ChrisHerzog]

Years ago when I was at Shamrock, Bob talked me into running FAI fuel at the Hydro Invitational one year. I did in open hydro. I ran an OPS 67 in an Aeromarine Sprint cat, this is about the same time Bob had that Aeromarine Popeyes cat he ran all over the country. At the time the normal fuel that went into this boat of mine was 30% nitro that we mixed at the shop. The only change I made to the engine was that I swapped the nitro head button out with an FAI head button (An off the shelf OPS product). I used the same prop, same pipe and pipe length, same head clearance but I did have to lean the needle down from where it was with the 30%. The boat ran fine, not as much punch as it had with the nitro but no one could tell that there was any difference in the way it ran with the FAI or 30% fuel.
For years I have run 30% nitro and have won plenty of trophies doing so. When I got back into nitro boats, I mixed up 40% for my boats. The only reason for doing so was because of the volume of product I was buying to mix fuel. This to me made the most since to have the least of any one product left over. Anyway, not trying to hurt anyone’s feeling but 90% of the guys racing nitro boats are terrible drivers (IMO) anyway. It makes no difference to me what they put in their boats, I enjoy beating them on a budget. In fact, I’m turning more guys on to 40% in all of our motors including our 20’s because my boats do well with it as apposed to running 60 or 65%.
Danny, I think the idea has good intentions but oh the headaches! For me, I’m not going to run anybody’s fuel in my engines, so a community tank at a race is out of the question. Then the whole policing thing will be a nightmare as well as people protesting people. It all sounds like way to many headaches but again, just my opinion. I have enough stress in life and not looking to take on anymore when I can avoid it so I’m a No!

Dave, on a side note since you seem to be so outspoken about all this and since you brought it up anyway. My discussion at the pond this past weekend with a mixed group of boaters went like this....Nitro guys have fast boats and are modelers in general but can’t really drive. Gas guys have less builders/modelers in their group. They like to buy rtr, plug and play boats but have a great number of better drivers in their group then do the nitro guys. This is simply because they spend a ton more time driving, whether it be practicing or actually racing and finishing their races. My point is this, don’t knock an IROC series or stock class series, that’s where you find the best of the best of drivers holding those trophies at the end of big races. Again just my opinion but if you run gas you had better practice driving.

 

[dwilfong]

I think some of us are missing the point.
No one is saying limit nitro content. You want to run high nitro...fine, run it.
But my point is there already people out there that run lower percent nitro purposely, because they build their engines to be torque monsters.

Then they set up the boat to use the torque to spin large cupped up props. They don't need to spin the engine to the moon to do the same work.

I know a few people that have very successful twins set up this way. they have a totally different sound,,, the roostertail even looks completely different due to the props being used more efficiently. And most importantly, they launch and return to the dock when the race is finished...

Wear and tear is reduced overall on the boat too,,, fuel, plugs, bearings, internal engine part failure costs are all reduced.

So, if there are some people who run 25% in engines that can and do remain competitive against others running high nitro, what's the issue ? Nobody is saying that we all have to run low nitro at this point, but if it keeps the hobby alive, I'm OK with making the changes needed.
Just adding liquid HP is easy,,, doing the necessary research, modifications, adjustments etc. to run lower nitro and still remain competitive, well that takes a little more brain power.

Look what happened when the NHRA cut the quarter mile down to 1000 ft and reduced
nitro % allowed.... do you think the crew chief and designers just said f*ck it.. guess we will just watch the nitro classes die now....
Nope.. they jumped in with both feet and figured it out, and the cars are running faster in 1000 ft then they did in the quarter!!! and break a lot less parts too!!

I still believe that nitro racers will find a way to run even if the government bans nitro consumption to the general public.
What is killing this hobby is the youth of today that want instant gratification, and don't have the mechanical skills to build or maintain a boat. If they can't just buy it or look up the answer to an issue on their cell phone, then the boat must be junk and gets thrown in the corner or sold on ebay.

WTF are you talking about Torque monster with low nitro?????
Nitro is liquid Torque.
OMG...help us!!!!!!!!!

 

[dwilfong]

Years ago when I was at Shamrock, Bob talked me into running FAI fuel at the Hydro Invitational one year. I did in open hydro. I ran an OPS 67 in an Aeromarine Sprint cat, this is about the same time Bob had that Aeromarine Popeyes cat he ran all over the country. At the time the normal fuel that went into this boat of mine was 30% nitro that we mixed at the shop. The only change I made to the engine was that I swapped the nitro head button out with an FAI head button (An off the shelf OPS product). I used the same prop, same pipe and pipe length, same head clearance but I did have to lean the needle down from where it was with the 30%. The boat ran fine, not as much punch as it had with the nitro but no one could tell that there was any difference in the way it ran with the FAI or 30% fuel.
For years I have run 30% nitro and have won plenty of trophies doing so. When I got back into nitro boats, I mixed up 40% for my boats. The only reason for doing so was because of the volume of product I was buying to mix fuel. This to me made the most since to have the least of any one product left over. Anyway, not trying to hurt anyone’s feeling but 90% of the guys racing nitro boats are terrible drivers (IMO) anyway. It makes no difference to me what they put in their boats, I enjoy beating them on a budget. In fact, I’m turning more guys on to 40% in all of our motors including our 20’s because my boats do well with it as apposed to running 60 or 65%.
Danny, I think the idea has good intentions but oh the headaches! For me, I’m not going to run anybody’s fuel in my engines, so a community tank at a race is out of the question. Then the whole policing thing will be a nightmare as well as people protesting people. It all sounds like way to many headaches but again, just my opinion. I have enough stress in life and not looking to take on anymore when I can avoid it so I’m a No!

Dave, on a side note since you seem to be so outspoken about all this and since you brought it up anyway. My discussion at the pond this past weekend with a mixed group of boaters went like this....Nitro guys have fast boats and are modelers in general but can’t really drive. Gas guys have less builders/modelers in their group. They like to buy rtr, plug and play boats but have a great number of better drivers in their group then do the nitro guys. This is simply because they spend a ton more time driving, whether it be practicing or actually racing and finishing their races. My point is this, don’t knock an IROC series or stock class series, that’s where you find the best of the best of drivers holding those trophies at the end of big races. Again just my opinion but if you run gas you had better practice driving.

Well not looking for a Trophy.
Could care less if I win or lose.
Like I said if you are in it for just the driving competition there are plenty of gas classes to test your driving skills with.
If you want to push the limits of you ability to tune and go fast NITRO BABY NITRO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Do not need a new NASCAR series.
The glory days are over as far as nitro are concerned.
We need to hold true to the allure that made nitro what it is.
Not water it down to try and make it some thing new.
I never seen a RC boat let alone a Nitro boat till 2009.
So as far as the good old days thy are just that.
Only ever had 1 gas boat for a short time. about 4 weeks.
New from the fist toss in the water it was not for me.
Have a weed whacker don't need a gas boat......LOL
Sorry just telling it like it is..........

 

[Eric Canto]

If nitro fuel was free, it would not increase the number of nitro racers. If someone wants to run RC boats with cheap fuel, they just run gas! The fact is, there is a steep learning curve with nitro boats and the youth of today are not interested in putting in the effort it takes to become proficient. Danny started this post by saying he runs 93MPH with low nitro. Imagine how much a new comer would have to learn to even remotely compete with that when the "fast guys" all think keeping every bit of info they can a secret is the way to go. As Al pointed out, fuel is a VERY small percentage of the overall cost of boat racing. Look at the demographics of those that do run nitro today. There is a lot of grey hair in that crowd, me included. Tell them they can only run "X" % of nitro and you would kill what little is left virtually over night.

 

[ChrisHerzog]

I’m not interested in how fast I can go but how long I can go fast. That’s in any class that I race gas or nitro. Guys like you are not competitors, your bouys. I don’t need or want trophies, I want to race the best there is at any given race and in every heat that I race. I want to beat them on set-up, driving and speed. lol, If I only cared about speed I wouldn’t be interested in heat racing. Go do some time trials if that’s all you care about!

 

[dwilfong]

I’m not interested in how fast I can go but how long I can go fast. That’s in any class that I race gas or nitro. Guys like you are not competitors, your bouys. I don’t need or want trophies, I want to race the best there is at any given race and in every heat that I race. I want to beat them on set-up, driving and speed. lol, If I only cared about speed I wouldn’t be interested in heat racing. Go do some time trials if that’s all you care about!

Got it....you have what you want .......
So now we have to make nitro the same?
WHY???????????

 

[David Ashcroft]

Well the bank is almost empty. So what will it be worth then??????

Worth zilch when the banks crash...be prepared for the digital one world currency..