Defining a Healthy Hobby?

[Mark Grannis]

Is the health of a RC Boat Race determined by number of boats at sanctioned event or number of contestants? I believe a race of 300-320 boats is healthier with 80-90 contestants than 50-60 contestants. So, would those guys running more than 4-5 boats enter by staggering their 5-10 entries as fill in spots?
Asking for a future race.

 

[brad nichols]

NO, Lenny Blake usually enters all the classes!! LOL

Brad

 

[Terry Keeley]

I definitely put the health of a race on the number of entries, our Can-Am started out with 70-80 boats ten years ago and we had 168 actually run in 2019, pretty good for this area.

If our race wasn't "healthy", people wouldn't travel long distances to come and we would have a much smaller event.

 

[Brandon Atwell]

Boat counts. When I’m reviewing races I can appreciate seeing a higher number of racers, but I’m more interested in seeing a higher number of boats per class.
If you limit the number of classes racers can enter you limit potentially competitive classes. Now running a class with 5 boats that could have been 8-10. You also make it less desirable for racers to travel farther distances if they are limited to only a few boats they can run.

That’s my definition of a healthy race. Healthy hobby, yes you should work towards more racers. But with the wide range of classes our governing organizations recognize, someone will be more inclined to travel with more chances to race. Believe you spurt potential racer growth if you limit their personal entry numbers due to this as well.

 

[Randy Rapedius]

That’s a tough one. I was going to say that the total boat count is the ONLY way to determine the health of a rc boat race. I do believe that within a “normal” race that the total boat count would determine healthy or unhealthy. However, the example below might say otherwise.

Gas Nats - 77 drivers with 282 boats entered.
Internats - 17 drivers with 198 boats entered.

This is NOT a Gas vs Nitro post. It is an example of how a total boat count can make a race appear to be healthier than it actually is.

 

[John Finch]

I do not like having to wait at my computer to enter a big race because after the race opens up for entries you need to get signed in within 15 minutes or you don't get to race. For that reason I like limiting the number of boats a person can enter. After everyone gets a chance to enter....lets say two days, then additional boats can be entered by an already entered contestant. That covers the amount of drivers who can enter and also fills all the classes. Locally it makes sense at smaller races to run as many boats as possible for one contestant but not the big races.

 

[Danny King]

What makes a race healthy is not the number of boats. The ratio of boats to classes is far more important.
But I’ll fall back onto more contestants per race is healthier.
Back in the day we had 200 boat races all the time. While only offering 15 classes. These races were far healthier then todays races.

Last March at Brandon 4 entrants made up 1/4 of the field. There were Atleast 4 entrants that could not get in. That isn’t healthy at all.
The more entrants there are the more HELP there is available to run the race.

More heats is better then more boats.
Instead of more classes more rounds is healthier.

A great example is the winter nitro race this year. Numbers were lower then previous years. I’m sure several things factored I to it.
But the race was completed in full with decent class turnout. And despite weather. Can’t say that with a packed heat sheet. So would it have been better if everyone brought more boats or if more participants showed up. It took the effort of many to make it happen. It would have overwhelmed it had there been too many more boats without helping participants.

Keep in mind the costs off traveling are through the roof. It is going to effect how many travel much.

 

[dr gary turner]

Years ago our model airplane club, BTW the first in AMA, had a large membership to the extent you had to wait a lot to fly your plane.
SO it was decided to not take in more members.

Well the club eventually almost collapsed.

LIMITING AND RESTRICTING is not a good idea.

 

[P THOMAS]

Well back when I started racing IMPBA Dist 4 There were lots of hydro mono racers so they limited your entry to 2 boats. Then they started to allow a scale boat too, that one of the reason I ran scale. Limiting boat entries allowed more racers to enter. Looks like some of these big races need to limit entries of a racer, but we are down on the number of racers that would go to the races.

 

[SayMikey]

Some racers are attracted by the number of boats in a class. Some racers come to get a trophy anything else is a failure. Some racers come to see there friends and race race breaks out.
Personally I like lots of boats in my class,I dont care if I win as long as I tried. In the end a healthy race is a race everyone wants to attend for there own reasons....

 

[Mark Grannis]

There is not a simple remedy.

John - Possibly a staggered entry of two waves might be the compromise. The days of offering every class with every means of power for district points racing or a nationally attended event is becoming next to impossible for a race to be considered "healthy".

Doc - Consider some classes are already indirectly being limited and restricted by 10 boaters entering 70-90 plus boats. One can view it as limiting or restricting vs. an attempt at inclusion.

Danny - I agree...more people, more friends, resulting in more fun!

Randy - each timed event entered at the US1 Nats is considered an additional boat. It is still early in the registration process. From what I've hear, I do believe this event will be well attended.

Another option is to offer more specialty type events similar to the Nitro Winter Championship or the upcoming (in the planning) Main Event in Tampa this fall.

 

[jaxracer]

5 boat max is reasonable (I honestly don’t know how most keep up with more than 2-3). As John recommended, any additional entries from a single driver, put them on a wait list. Give the race a week or two to fill up, if their wait list classes have additional availability, they can be entered. Might take some help from Bill on the RCracingevents site to figure out how to set up a que from the entry page but definitely think it’s a great idea for the larger events.

As has been mentioned by others, I come to a race to race. I’d rather have 4 full rounds of heat racing than 500 boats and 3 rounds of heat racing. I understand that may be at a detriment to the host club’s financials, so just raise the entry fees. People will naturally enter less boats, and therefore raise competition levels because they’re going to prioritize entering the boats that they know run well instead of something they might’ve just put together the day prior that now becomes a buoy on the race course.

Or here’s an idea, raise the entry fee only on that 4th or 5th+ boat entered. This doesn’t deter some racers from entering altogether, will limit the amount of excessive boats preventing other racers from entering, and keeps a happy medium so the club can still benefit financially from the race.

 

[Tom Foley]

I like the Specialty event simply because as Mark mentioned it is simply impossible to fit all the classes in , even on a 3 day race . There is simply not enough time to run all the major Gas classes and Nitro classes . Look at the offered classes for the upcoming D3 points race in Miami . The only Nitro classes offered are X hydro and A Mono . Yes there is an open Hydro class and I believe Scale have to check . It may as well be a Gas Only race and call it a day .
As far as what makes a successful race ....fun . It boils down to fun as well as competition . We all have seen in what happens when people take things WAY too seriously , sucks the fun right out of it .
as far as limiting entries , I don't like it but have come to see the need for it 6 boats is my opinion on the number of boats a contestant can run . We all spend tons of money on this equipment and travel so I feel we should be given a chance to use it . Have fun !

 

[osracer]

I think limiting entries on the large races is fine. I don’t feel that applies to the internats. I believe everyone should be allowed to race in the Internats if they choose to do so. It shouldn’t be limited to the fastest guys on the keyboard. When the race is filled in a few minutes a lot of people get left out and I don’t think that’s right. My two cents.
Bill

 

[John Finch]

Mitch,

I like your suggestion for the second wave to be a week after the initial registration.

John

 

[Ralph Almirola]

I believe the hobby is healthy but the number of people that are willing to work the events is what's suffering. I have seen it and experienced it, where you only have 3-5 people working and the other club members are racing. Every club has this problem and the event suffers because of it. We must fix that problem first and then the numbers will come back. I agree we have too many classes to host events offering all of them and try to run 4 rounds in 2 to 3 days even with the perfect weather and everyone working. I also believe that if you register for an event you don't get a refund to help eliminate the congestion problem. I don't like the idea of limiting entries but clubs should limit how many times they wait on them! Bottom line if we don't have healthy CLUBS putting on events the racing hobby will suffer and go away.

 

[Terry Keeley]

I believe the hobby is healthy but the number of people that are willing to work the events is what's suffering. I have seen it and experienced it, where you only have 3-5 people working and the other club members are racing. Every club has this problem and the event suffers because of it. We must fix that problem first and then the numbers will come back. I agree we have too many classes to host events offering all of them and try to run 4 rounds in 2 to 3 days even with the perfect weather and everyone working. I also believe that if you register for an event you don't get a refund to help eliminate the congestion problem. I don't like the idea of limiting entries but clubs should limit how many times they wait on them! Bottom line if we don't have healthy CLUBS putting on events the racing hobby will suffer and go away.

I saw this for years so when I started CD 'ing our club's events I scheduled club members to work certain blocks of heats. It was a little tough at first to get some guys to "participate" but now it's just second nature and everyone pulls their weight.

Typically we divide the number of heats/round into four blocks with three guys (2 retrieve boat, 1 pit boss) working each block and two referees working two blocks each. In 2019 we had 37 heats per round so guys worked 9 or 10 heats at a time (about 1:15).

One of the hardest jobs I have behind the scenes is to figure out a running order so our guys can work the event and still run their boats.

 

[Al Papitto]

We just finished our third Melbourne Superboat shootout. We ran a sellout 300 boats four full heats over three days. The next race is Broward, It is also sold out and has a substantial waiting list. Our first district meeting we agreed to limit three day events to 275 and two day to 175. NAMBA D3 has a problem that most clubs would like to have, We have too many boats! We do have a few entrants that run 8-9 classes. I like the suggestion to limit to five entries per and place their extras on the waiting list. We are actively working on ways to make everyone happy, The Rudder busters club is strong and lot of racers pitched in to help get it done

 

[bzubee]

I do not like having to wait at my computer to enter a big race because after the race opens up for entries you need to get signed in within 15 minutes or you don't get to race. For that reason I like limiting the number of boats a person can enter. After everyone gets a chance to enter....lets say two days, then additional boats can be entered by an already entered contestant. That covers the amount of drivers who can enter and also fills all the classes. Locally it makes sense at smaller races to run as many boats as possible for one contestant but not the big races.

I agree with you John key board racing is not the hobby I like. I think any event using the word National should have entries set the way you stated.

 

[Greg Rowe]

First thanks to Mark for bringing this topic up as all clubs face the same issues.
I think most all the response are legit issues, but put all of them in a can shake them and you still will not have a fix.
the big issues I see and to piggy back on Ralphs comments are club member involvement.
you can assign members to different task but they have to show up each day and help clean up after the race is over.
so I'll start here, your club, is it an all everybody race club? Is it a club that promotes RC boating? Both?
For a club to put on a race it needs every member to help, but you have some that are not and do not want to spend a weekend working an event that they have no interest in. That's a problem that can promote a unhealthy club. BMBI lost members this past year for this reason.
Brandon Model Boaters will host a District 3 high points race in October, 2 day event, 16 high point classes 175 max boats, you can already see the problem.
Yes this is a major Gas boat race and a small mix of FE classes, why? these are the racers that attend all the different races, supporting each of the hosting club.
So my humble opinion, I want to support the guys that are chasing D3 points, special or one off races support all the other racers.
Guys that enter multiple boats, must be held to the same standard as the guy that enters one boat, be on time when you race is called, Hosting Club and other Racers should not have to wait. This makes an unhealthy race.
Computer racers that sign up and never plan to attend, Unhealthy so flyers should say PP only, no mail in, no cash the day of the race, and No Refunds.
Racers, follow the hosting club rules, if ask by a hosting member not to do something that violates club rules just do what you are ask to do, each club is different and have different rules set by the land owners, All country parks are not the same, all the surroundings are not the same.
NAMBA has a noise rule, BMBI will have to enforce that rule due to our Neighbors and their HOA that have complained about the noise. so do your part, Quiet pipes or mufflers.
PONDS ARE EASY TO LOSE, AND HARDER TO FIND.
Just my humble opinion,
Greg