Current IMPBA and NAMBA FE Rules.......

[Mike Culhane]

Yeah but can I run my Castle exercise wheel in an IMPBA event? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[HOTWATER]

I am happy with the esc rules in our district and I have yet to hear anybody complain about changes on the esc rule. It just seems to me that there are people that will always complain just to try and throw a wrench into the system...if there are apples being passed out some will still want oranges...with FE being fairly new to the boating scene we just need to try and deal with the club rules and work with it right now....c'mon!!. I am one who will easily comply with the club rules wherever I will be racing at (IMPBA or NAMBA)........No problem!!

Somebody said earlier that if you want to run something with different systems, step up to full P boats (put those "Big Boy" Pants on...) I agree!!....leave the spec stuff for the newer guys and the guys that like running in the spec classes the way they are...aren't we done with this yet!???

 

[Jim Caldwell]

I ran a spec esc and motor in my sport hydro with my datalogger and then changed to a 120 speedo and played with the timing, guess what less, than 2 mph difference and a lot more motor killer heat!

You will be amazed how many F/E guys like my self have been doing this for more than 20 years!

 

[DPeterson]

Dead on correct Jim.

Wish I had the communication abilities to be able to explain to the crossover new FE racers on how the electric racing evolved over the last 15-20 years and subsequently the gravitaion towards the P-Limited classes. Anytime I try to expain it, feelings tend to get hurt.

The Big Boy Pants remarkes really cracks me up. There is a very large contingent of traveling racers and multiple national winners that developed and run these P-Limited classes. We make up the contingent of racers that already have raced the P-Q-S and T classes. A lot of us still have 10's of thousands of dollars worth of high end power equipment collecting dust in the shop. I believe we are waiting for the crossovers and the new guys to try on a new pair of pants.

These veteran FE racers developed these P-Limited classes and race these classes because this is where the action is.

Cheers - Doug

 

[SeanKewley]

I think that a lot of this frustration stems from the lack of FE racing venues in some areas. That is why many of us travel to races. It was not easy getting FE classes on the schedule here in D4 either. It took us 3 years of hard work, promoting, recruiting, and organizing to get 3 P-Ltd classes on the sanctioned race flyers. It does not happen overnight.

Putting an official P-Ltd class in the IMPBA rule book is not going to get you the 3 or more racers needed to make a class at a race. Team work, communication, and education will. It happens because of hard work at the district and club level. Most clubs regardless if they are NAMBA or IMPBA will make room on their heat line up to accommodate a class…As long as it has the numbers show up (3 or more boats… 5 in some clubs).

I will say that it is very inspiring to see so many feeling passionate about growing FE. Bring that passion to a local club/district near you.

 

[RonShaw]

BTW- The exposure the nitro tunnel cross overs have given electric boats are major player in the growth of FE's in the South East. I thank you guys!!!!

Chilli,

You hit the nail on the head. It looks like a lot of tunnel guys, are making the cross over to include FE in a big way, (me too ). Some of the best racing ever can be found in the tunnel classes. That's one hard core fact that I was happy to see, still existed after my return last year. The P-Limited ESC debate will eventually go away, once the masses decide which way will benefit the boaters and the hobby as well. The feedback has been phenomenal. No lack of passion on this thread for sure...........

 

[obrien]

I do not see how a nationwide universal spec class would only benefit a small number of records racers. Most of the elite FE racers are record racers because there are very few heat races to attend. If the classes do not have records on the IMPBA side so be it. But just kicking the can down the road does not help promote more heat racing. Trying something even as restrictive as some districts have done is better than sitting waiting for races to appear. So far I see no real conflict in accepted motors locally or nationally. The ESC debate could be compromised to allow a couple more economic choices without ruining the class and where we have bordering dictricts some compromise would surely bring in more racers and what would be the down side? There seems to be a different picture of racing in the FE community. You can see it on discussions on OSE and RRR vs IW.

Mic

Please tell me how you think making the Limited classes official in the IMPBA mirroring the NAMBA rule set will create more heat racing opportunities? Heat races like anything are powered by people. If you do not have people willing to put themselves out to put on races you don't have anything. Putting additional words in a ruebook will not make more races appear on the calendar. As far as I can see most racers that really want to race are willing to cross over whether it be from NAMBA to IMPBA or vice versa and they are willing to run by the rules of whatever district a particular race is in. At this very moment I'm in D13 ( I live in D3) at the first Grand Prix race of the year and the FE classes at this race are being strongly supported. I'm going to have a good time, bad weather and all.

Chris

Its pretty simple. Why do I want to change my boat? My current setup works great and has been very reliable. I can't say the same for the aq/proboat escs. I have run the same motor and turnigy esc in boat for a almost 2 years with no problems. If the esc rule was uniform between the two groups guys like me would be more willing to travel to the races in sc and ga. Why would I want to carry extra esc's that are more expensive and less reliable. If I am going to travel to an race, I am going to have a spare esc, so now thats doubling the price. I realize that the guys in D12 claim to have not seem the failures on these escs, but there have been plenty in our area that have.

 

[HTV Boats]

Thanks Sean K for a very informative conversation. First I want to address the "big boy pants". Part of building outboard racing is some WWE smack talk. It just works and brings attention to racing events, I am hoping I can push some tunnel and non tunnel guys into looking past spec and making a P or Q class even if we can only run them at one or two events.

What I have come to realize is there are quite a few old time seasoned FE racers who have had the equipment all along and limited events that are long distance and or only time trials to go to. Now the new explosion in FE comes and its with a spec motor and, adding insult to injury the largest class is outboard tunnels which I can attest have been second class rc boat citizens for 30 plus years.

 

[Don Ferrette]

I ran a spec esc and motor in my sport hydro with my datalogger and then changed to a 120 speedo and played with the timing, guess what less, than 2 mph difference and a lot more motor killer heat!

You will be amazed how many F/E guys like my self have been doing this for more than 20 years!

And what is more amazing is how Jim's post has been cast by the wayside by those who still want to argue that the D12/D13 P-Limited approach is so terrible. As for a National set of P-Limited rules in IMPBA......... no thanks. Who is going to tech them at events? For that matter who has the ability to tech them at all? The P-Limited is a great crossover class and makes it easy for those who want to get their feet wet in FE to do so without spending a bunch of $$ and being able to buy a proven combination that works and works well. As far as I know not a single AQ motor/ESC combo has been burned down in either D12 or D13 in what, 3 seasons now? And if the crossover racers want to step it up then there are the already established P,Q,S & T classes just waiting for them. You fellas have a nice day as this one has already been beaten to a lifeless bloody pulp but some just want to keep pounding away...................

 

[Darin Jordan]

Who is going to tech them at events? For that matter who has the ability to tech them at all?

It's NOT brain surgery, Don... Those "dumb" car guys at ROAR seem to have little trouble running "spec" motor classes... Ours are even easier, since the motors aren't designed to be torn down.

With such a limited range of allowable motors, with very little, if any, leeway in what can/can't be done to them... It's NOT that hard to do...

 

[Doug Smock]

I feel very comfortable speaking for D13s FE racers because I have spoken to them. In 2007 when we started the first P limited class, 2008,2009, 2010, November last year, and we had conversations again this weekend, at the race, where these conversations should be taking place.

Here is the bottom line guys.

Racers in D13 that have built the Fast Electric house don't want to change a thing at this time.

Please understand that if, and when, they feel the house needs to be remodeled, it will be done by D13 members, and those racers from outside of the district, that choose to come and race with us.

My suggestion, with all due respect, to those that want to remodel our house, is to build a house of your own and show us that we have put the doors in the wrong place.

If you don't want to race with us, we're very sorry, you're missing out on some good racing, and some great people.

As far as the AQ control failures some say they have experienced, well, like the Thunder Boat class, set up is key when the power is limited.

Got to go fix some things that are broken so I can continue to play with these toy boats.

Have a great day fellas!!

D.

.

 

[Darin Jordan]

Doug... Well stated...

Please don't misunderstand my post above, or my intentions with posting it... You guys can do whatever you want with your "house"... It IS about what the racers want, after all...

My point was strictly aimed at the myth that this stuff can't be tech'd... That's a crock, and after the drubbing that many of us have taken over the issue last season, it's a falsehood that I'm going to fight against, whenever it comes up.

By the way... if someone swapped out an ESC and got more heat in the motor... I'm sure they know that you can't just translate XX-degrees of timing from one ESC to XX-degrees of timing to another, right?? Not all ESC timing is the same...

 

[Dick Loeb]

I feel very comfortable speaking for D13s FE racers because I have spoken to them. In 2007 when we started the first P limited class, 2008,2009, 2010, November last year, and we had conversations again this weekend, at the race, where these conversations should be taking place.

Here is the bottom line guys.

Racers in D13 that have built the Fast Electric house don't want to change a thing at this time.

Please understand that if, and when, they feel the house needs to be remodeled, it will be done by D13 members, and those racers from outside of the district, that choose to come and race with us.

My suggestion, with all due respect, to those that want to remodel our house, is to build a house of your own and show us that we have put the doors in the wrong place.

If you don't want to race with us, we're very sorry, you're missing out on some good racing, and some great people.

As far as the AQ control failures some say they have experienced, well, like the Thunder Boat class, set up is key when the power is limited.

Got to go fix some things that are broken so I can continue to play with these toy boats.

Have a great day fellas!!

D.

.

AMEN Mr SMOCK

 

[DPeterson]

Unless I missed it, I am not seeing where anyone wants to change what D12 and D13 is doing. ?? I believe we are all glad it is working for you all.

When there is talk about going national with a set of rules that may affect what happens in "our houses" there will be discussions period.

Good day. Doug

 

[Doug Smock]

Unless I missed it, I am not seeing where anyone wants to change what D12 and D13 is doing.

It did come up in this thread Doug, and that was the reason for my post this morning.

FWIW, I personally will not support any proposal to make the Limited classes official at this time, nor would I support a proposal to make them eligible for records.

The Limited boats can be made legal for classes that exist if need be. We have twenty six classes on the books for oval racing, thirty four classes eligible for records.

See ya'll at the pond,

D.

 

[obrien]

I ran a spec esc and motor in my sport hydro with my datalogger and then changed to a 120 speedo and played with the timing, guess what less, than 2 mph difference and a lot more motor killer heat!

You will be amazed how many F/E guys like my self have been doing this for more than 20 years!

And what is more amazing is how Jim's post has been cast by the wayside by those who still want to argue that the D12/D13 P-Limited approach is so terrible. As for a National set of P-Limited rules in IMPBA......... no thanks. Who is going to tech them at events? For that matter who has the ability to tech them at all? The P-Limited is a great crossover class and makes it easy for those who want to get their feet wet in FE to do so without spending a bunch of $$ and being able to buy a proven combination that works and works well. As far as I know not a single AQ motor/ESC combo has been burned down in either D12 or D13 in what, 3 seasons now? And if the crossover racers want to step it up then there are the already established P,Q,S & T classes just waiting for them. You fellas have a nice day as this one has already been beaten to a lifeless bloody pulp but some just want to keep pounding away...................

I guess your group of races has been lucky with the esc's then. I have seen them crap out with the stock props being used, so its not always the case of over propping as you guys always seem to believe.

 

[Chilli]

What stock prop? The carbon fiber one that comes with the UL1???

Please, do share the details with us.

 

[obrien]

I had two burn up on my stock black jack when I first started to play with them. When some of the guys started buying the UL1's a couple lost them with stock props and I believe it was 3 or 4 were lost running 442 2 blades. I do realize that was before the larger cap was put on the UL1 esc's. It didn't take me long to start running the castle speed controls. Now that the turnigy's are so cheap and have been reliable, I have been using them.

 

[MrHammerHead]

I do not see how a nationwide universal spec class would only benefit a small number of records racers. Most of the elite FE racers are record racers because there are very few heat races to attend. If the classes do not have records on the IMPBA side so be it. But just kicking the can down the road does not help promote more heat racing. Trying something even as restrictive as some districts have done is better than sitting waiting for races to appear. So far I see no real conflict in accepted motors locally or nationally. The ESC debate could be compromised to allow a couple more economic choices without ruining the class and where we have bordering dictricts some compromise would surely bring in more racers and what would be the down side? There seems to be a different picture of racing in the FE community. You can see it on discussions on OSE and RRR vs IW.

Mic

Please tell me how you think making the Limited classes official in the IMPBA mirroring the NAMBA rule set will create more heat racing opportunities? Heat races like anything are powered by people. If you do not have people willing to put themselves out to put on races you don't have anything. Putting additional words in a ruebook will not make more races appear on the calendar. As far as I can see most racers that really want to race are willing to cross over whether it be from NAMBA to IMPBA or vice versa and they are willing to run by the rules of whatever district a particular race is in. At this very moment I'm in D13 ( I live in D3) at the first Grand Prix race of the year and the FE classes at this race are being strongly supported. I'm going to have a good time, bad weather and all.

Chris

Its pretty simple. Why do I want to change my boat? My current setup works great and has been very reliable. I can't say the same for the aq/proboat escs. I have run the same motor and turnigy esc in boat for a almost 2 years with no problems. If the esc rule was uniform between the two groups guys like me would be more willing to travel to the races in sc and ga. Why would I want to carry extra esc's that are more expensive and less reliable. If I am going to travel to an race, I am going to have a spare esc, so now thats doubling the price. I realize that the guys in D12 claim to have not seem the failures on these escs, but there have been plenty in our area that have.

So let me get this straight. NAMBA D3 is struggling with participation in electrics in your area where open ESC's are allowed so you want your neighboring IMPBA district to change their rules, which are working exceptionally well by the way, for you. If the roles were reversed and the D13 guys wanted to come down and race with you but told you they were not going to come unless you limited the ESC's like they do what would you tell them? The choice is yours comlpy with the ditrict's rules you want to run in and go race or sit behind your computer pounding away at the keys telling everyone how unfair this is. Furthermore, why would I want to change the equipment I have been running for three years without a single failure. The way I see it there is alot more to this problem than ESC's.

Chris

 

[obrien]

They wouldn't have to change their esc's. How is it you see there to be more of a problem than just the esc's? It was probably a period when the manufacturers were having problems with their esc's. Either way, I have seen enough fail. I don't see any problem with participation in D3 when it comes to the open esc's. The biggest problem here is the lack of races. D3 won't even offer electric classes at the 2 day events. The nats last year had over 20 tunnels participating. The local one day events have had penty of participation in these classes as well. I am not crying about it being unfair. I am simply stating that I don't agree with the rule. so keep working on your ideas as to what the problems may be. I will say it one more time. If this rule was really all about saving money, then allowing an esc that is almost half the price shouldn't be a problem. I have presented my stance on this topic enough, so you guys have fun with it.