3.5 outboards aussi

[theringwah2002]

If i want to race my modded7.5 ss or my pro tunnel,What class would i be in.

Thinking of going to the Vic's

Has anyone got a good 7.5 tunnel for sale?

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I would doubt tht there will be any 7.5 tunnels running, nearly everyone runs 3.5's

Probbly have to rin with the hydro's.

Comments guys?

Mark

 

[Tim_Duggan]

Hi rmprecision,

The rules state 5 boats to make a class - if there are 5 x 7.5cc O/B tunnels there, then that would constitute a class and you would be all set. However, if there are not enough to make a class then the race director might give you the option of running with 7.5cc hydro.

Best idea would be to contact the race organisers and have a talk with them.

Hope this helps.

Tim.

 

[David Kingston]

What about mixing up electric with nitro.

THere are several electric boats that i know of that would be able to keep up and go the distance with the nitro boats.

I have had this discussion before...

Just want to know if you have to be moving in the mill time or not.

Cause with electric to make the finish of the race, i'd (and other electrics) would have to sit off to the side of the course and wait till the starting clock.

If you class a boat as still in the water as a dead boat and out of the race then what about moving it blip the throttle every 10 seconds or so, just to keep it moving and not to waste the battery.

I am asking all this as i will be at hunter valley. I will have my electric tunnel there but wont be running against nitro unless i get some positive (and or negative) feedback on everyones thoughts and feelings towards electrics running with nitro.

Daivd

 

[Tim_Duggan]

What about mixing up electric with nitro.
THere are several electric boats that i know of that would be able to keep up and go the distance with the nitro boats.

I have had this discussion before...

Just want to know if you have to be moving in the mill time or not.

Cause with electric to make the finish of the race, i'd (and other electrics) would have to sit off to the side of the course and wait till the starting clock.

If you class a boat as still in the water as a dead boat and out of the race then what about moving it blip the throttle every 10 seconds or so, just to keep it moving and not to waste the battery.

I am asking all this as i will be at hunter valley. I will have my electric tunnel there but wont be running against nitro unless i get some positive (and or negative) feedback on everyones thoughts and feelings towards electrics running with nitro.

Daivd

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David,

I don't think it's particularly fair or appropriate to put them together. Nitro outboards would be at a disadvantage in a points for place type of race - no question. Speed and milling are not the only factors here. Nitro boats do not have the ability to sit in the water waiting for the clock to run down, they have to contend with getting the engine started within the pit window (not just turning on a switch), getting the needle valve right, circulating during pit and mill time to get in the right spot for a good start, avoiding getting hosed down and putting out the flame in the engine etc. etc. etc. All stuff the electric boats can avoid.

As for milling - I think stopping dead in the water is not a good idea - throwing the boat in at the end of pit time and circulating the course would be safer and fairer for everyone on the water at the time. it's only 30 seconds on top of the race duration. If the batteries and speed controllers aren't up to running for that duration at speed - then thats enough argument not to merge the class at this point in time.

This class has been all but dead for the last few years. I don't think now is the time to be talking about merging it with electric as it is still in it's early stages of a resurgence ( why compromise / jeapardise it?). Maybe having this discussion when there are specific rules in place for the electric tunnels that would cater to such a merger, and when the nitro class is more consistent, it would be more appropriate.

Just my opinion at this time.

Tim.

Alternatively - you could get 5 electric outboards to commit to a race meeting and have your own class without any concerns about parity.......

 

[David Kingston]

Tim,

I see your point,

>>>As for milling - I think stopping dead in the water is not a good idea - throwing the boat in at the end of pit time and circulating the course would be safer and fairer for everyone on the water at the time. it's only 30 seconds on top of the race duration. If the batteries and speed controllers aren't up to running for that duration at speed - then thats enough argument not to merge the class at this point in time.

What is the total race time for a nitro from the time of the count down to zero till the flag?

>>>This class has been all but dead for the last few years.

I know. There has been little action in QLD with OB tunnels for years and i dont think that much has changed. I went electric as there is a large club and noise regulations with no IC boats able to run on the lake.

I dont want to have this boat participate in any compition for points, i am interested in doing a heat, to see the difference between the two sorts of boat. Nitro vs Electric. As i said before, the boat will be at Hunter Valley champs, but will not run. I hope to get it out on the water in practice time if alowd.

I understand where you are coming from in that the class is making a come back, and if there are more sanctioned events (some in QLD also) then i will consider getting a nitro engine and bolt to my tunnel.

I just keep reading about more 3.5 tunnels wanted in AUS. Well there are heaps of tunnels, just the wrong power plant.

David

 

[Tim_Duggan]

Normally a 3.5 O/B race is about 1min 30 sec to 2min depending mainly on the water conditions. Add 30 seconds mill time to that - 2 minutes 30sec. would be about the longest you would have to run. There is 2 minutes of pit time at the beginning also if you wanted to go in earlier.

I really believe the move to electric power is inevitable. Unfortunately electric competition currently has nothing in comparison to the Nitro and Gas scene in Australia.

It's my opinion that something similar to the NAMBA Limited Sport Hydro class would be ideal to begin bringing electric into the fuel based races. A control class with scale appearance - 12 cells, 700BB engines to keep the initial entry cost down and to gain interest from the existing membership.

18 cells, brushless motors and controllers on a tunnel is not really going to win the people over - sure it's impressive speeds for what it is, but that alone won't win them over. Get 1 class happening 1st and then the others will grow from that. You only need to look at the popularity of the gas classes to see that first hand.

 

[David Kingston]

Normally a 3.5 O/B race is about 1min 30 sec to 2min depending mainly on the water conditions. Add 30 seconds mill time to that - 2 minutes 30sec. would be about the longest you would have to run. There is 2 minutes of pit time at the beginning also if you wanted to go in earlier.

4mins run time - could even muck about in the mill

lol

>>I really believe the move to electric power is inevitable. Unfortunately electric competition currently has nothing in comparison to the Nitro and Gas scene in Australia.

Gas and Nitro is big but mainly in the southern states. Nothing much up here apart from boral lakes with rod smith but i have not heard much about that for some time.

>>It's my opinion that something similar to the NAMBA Limited Sport Hydro class would be ideal to begin bringing electric into the fuel based races. A control class with scale appearance - 12 cells, 700BB engines to keep the initial entry cost down and to gain interest from the existing membership.

yeah - that is most of the classes 700 mono, tunnel and hydro, then Open clases are Brushless motor.

>>18 cells, brushless motors and controllers on a tunnel is not really going to win the people over - sure it's impressive speeds for what it is, but that alone won't win them over.

The reason it was built was to compete agianst nitro. The cost to set up the boat is actually cheeper than a setup in 3.5 stock. Maintaince is a can of WD40 after the run, no extra cost with fuel. It might not sound like a nitro boat but would keep up with one.

ANy how, im not trying to argue with you here. There are positive and negatives with both engine forms. Im just really keen to make the trip down to the HV champs and meet some other tunnel hull racers.

It was hard enough to convince other in my club to run some Brushless boats, let alone try to make a class for AMPBA racing.

David

 

[Tim_Duggan]

4 minutes - no problem. No need to stop on the water other than the "peak" from your cells at the beginning. Just put it in the water at the end of pit time, do a lap and go for the start. Mill time is there to get the boat ready for the start of the race - 30 seconds should be plenty of time for you to get around the course in readiness.

There are a few guys who are regular racers in S/E QLD / northern NSW. I can think of 4 guys that attended the Winter Spectacular in Sydney a few weeks ago. There are a few AMPBA clubs in QLD and Northern NSW with very active racers.

"It was hard enough to convince other in my club to run some Brushless boats, let alone try to make a class for AMPBA racing." You will have the same problem convincing guys with nitro or gas engines.

"The cost to set up the boat is actually cheaper than a setup in 3.5 stock."

You know - I don't think that is quite correct. What does 18 matched cells, a charger, a brushless motor, a leg and a speed controller cost these days? A new stock O/B engine costs under $400 AU.

You have an exceptionally good boat in the villain - it would be extremely competitive with a nitro engine on it if you can bring yourself to doing it.

 

[Kris Flynn]

Hey Tim, I can tell you that Villain of Davids runs EASILY in rough water at 40MPH+ (on 12 cells!);-)

Then take my Villain running at 43MPH is hair raising because it is so light! I would personally like to see him (and maybe me also ;-)) to 'fill' up some vacant spots with the nitro guys...we just need more input from the other 3.5 guys...

Hey David, I might be able to bring 2 BL 12 cell boats up ;-) so we only need 2 more to have a class LOL How about it Andrew G??

Kris

 

[dion26]

Hey Tim, I can tell you that Villain of Davids runs EASILY in rough water at 40MPH+ (on 12 cells!);-) 
Then take my Villain running at 43MPH is hair raising because it is so light!  I would personally like to see him (and maybe me also ;-)) to 'fill' up some vacant spots with the nitro guys...we just need more input from the other 3.5 guys...

Hey David, I might be able to bring 2 BL 12 cell boats up ;-) so we only need 2 more to have a class LOL How about it Andrew G??

Kris

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hey all i wouldnt mind seeing that just as long as the elc's have 2 run by the same rules as us just try it at 1 meeting 2 c how it gose if every 1 likes it then keep running it like that if know 1 dose the leave it how it is

laters dion

 

[rmprecision]

Seeing i am new to the sport after racing powerboats the last 12 years

could i run my 7.5 with no points the 3.5 class just for the experience.

Not at national events just club days in Victoria

 

[Tim_Duggan]

Hey Tim, I can tell you that Villain of Davids runs EASILY in rough water at 40MPH+ (on 12 cells!);-) 
Then take my Villain running at 43MPH is hair raising because it is so light!  I would personally like to see him (and maybe me also ;-)) to 'fill' up some vacant spots with the nitro guys...we just need more input from the other 3.5 guys...

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Kris - I don't doubt it at all - read my posts again. I'm not saying they aren't exciting or anything negative toward electric at all - just they have an unfair advantage if they are competing in an existing and established NITRO O/B class.

Let's put a different perspective on this. You and David CHOSE to build these boats that do not conform to our existing rules. You are asking us to essentially let you bend the rules. I merely outlined why I don't think it is a good idea. Would you be doing it if you had no chance of being competitive? I doubt it.

Why am I taking this stance - because I am sticking up for all the new guys that have chosen to stick to the rules and spent their hard earned $$$ appropriately. If someone doesn't - they won't be racing boats for long

Why is it that people are so desparate to Screw UP a class that is going thru a minor resurgence :blink: :blink: Leave it alone, let it get established, and then discuss this stuff when more appropriate. So far all we have had is 1 heat at the nat's, and 1 heat at the NSW champs with this class - hardly established.....

Tim

 

[theringwah2002]

Guys,

I tend to agree with Tim,

I feel that the FE's would be running with huge relibility advantage. Who cares on club days, no one! But at championship events, thats another thing.

Mark

 

[dion26]

hye greg iam planing on making a 7.5 ob i just need a hull any 1 got 1 they r not useing

Tim what i ment about th fe ob's was that they can just race 2 get some number but not race for a title or things like that laters dion

 

[Kris Flynn]

Tim and others,

I Understand we shouldn't 'stuff' with this class (3.5 OB) What i think David (and I) are suggesting is to run them for show, remember we did not state we want to be in the points race, just to be able to run with the nitro would be good enough! I think you dont want to be beaten by the future NO 1 power source ;-)

DONT DELAY THE IN-EVITABLE (spelling sucks some times LOL)

 

But Seriously tho we (well I) am not fussed, I will be running 3.5 OB tunnel with a nitro boat for points, but it would be a good test of FE to run against some nitro.

 

BTW Tim, I am not having a stab at anything you say, you make VERY good points! Just trying to open others eyes to what else is out there ;-)

 

Kris

 

[Kris Flynn]

Greg, Soccer season is ALMOST over, so i will have just about all/every weekend free to run boats ;-) So we can race, that is if we dont get blown out as per usual at Cherry Lake....

Kris

 

[David Kingston]

Tim

so have we come to any decision.

Would any electric boat be alowed to run at the HV champs.

Like i said for demo, and just to race, not wanting to go for any point. Would even be happy to only run practice friday.

You mentioned cost.

400 bucks for a nitro 3.5 stock.

BL motor and ESC - $320.

18cell - zapped - non-matched 3300's $150

Charger - $120

Cost $590.

My villain apart from paint cost me $800 bucks on the water with 3 packs.

That is everything including a ballanced prop.

Nothing more to spend on it unless damaged hull.

30 bucks for a 1L bottle of nitro fuel hurts. (Not to mention $1.30 now for car fuel but that is another topic lol)

Im not trying to stuff an class up and i wont try to convert any nitro folk to cross to the dark side. Kris and i would just like to run against some ppl. If there is only a few people there with 3.5 (i wouldnt know the numbers) what are the posibilities?

Kris,

you have 2 Electric, I have 2 that i could bring, Another block could bring one if finished, and Andrew - you need a tunnel.

Daivd

David

 

[poolschool]

Kris, Dave and others,

I have read, and re-read this post with amazement. Basically I agree with everything that Tim has said in regards to 3.5 O/B nitro tunnel. I'm sure you guys running the FE o/b tunnels could find some willing nitro guys to run speed comparisons against at your local club level. Sanctioned events however, as Tim and Mark have said, FE and nitro are 2 disctinct individual classes.

No, I don't fear of being beaten by an FE, as a matter of fact would love the opportunity to run against one, but as Tim has said, and I speak for the o/b tunnel guys of MBC of NSW, we continue to invest large sums of money into the class in the hope that the resurgeance will continue. So unfortunately, FE is blanketed by the same rules as nitro at sanctioned events - 5 boats to make a class.

In my opinion, this is the "gun" statement

" Why is it that people are so desparate to Screw UP a class that is going thru a minor resurgence blink.gif blink.gif Leave it alone, let it get established, and then discuss this stuff when more appropriate. "

My AU$2.25 worth.

Gino

 

[HOOTERS Racing]

hi all

im only new to the nitro o/b tunnel scene but i have to say i agree with tim,mark,gino and others leave it as it is and if its needed revise the rules later just my 2cents worth

thanks

ian

 

[dion26]

hey all i do agree with tim but i also think we should just try it omly if we dont have the numbers for some good racing let the FE's race but not for any points i think it would be good just for show

laters dion