20 boat pushing 80 plus

[Andy Brown]

Couple of great runnin boats in the videos but we are talking during a race here , whole different ball game

Not sayin that it can't be done , or hasn't been done just hav'nt seen it .

I must correct myself if my memory is correct Mr Bill McGraw ran 82mph at the Spring Nats in 1994 ?

I'll never forget watching his boat.

Tim K

Tim I held Bills radar gun on that same Boat Many Many times @ 82 & 84 mph. Just a little ripple on the water would knock off 3 mph. It would run 84mph on Smooth water. if it was coming towards a large area of a little ripple you would see if fall off 2-3 mph. It did not take much to unhook a little boat. Frank Orlic engine every time. Bill studied the Sleeve on a V block with a dial indicator stationary to the V Block intensely. 3 1/2 lb boat Ralph personally built for Bill`s specs. Many times he would enhance the engine timing numbers by machining the piston height down & Longer rods. Some of the fastest engines were long stoke engines with the Older N/R Big Bore SS P/Liners. They would ROCK........ To tell you how good the Boat Was... a BONE Stk Out of the Box SS N/R engine would run 68 mph in the same boat.

A thing of beauty Joe , something I will never forget.

Tim k

Tim, I do remember attending the 1994 Spring Nats, but are you guys sure that 16 years time has not added 10 MPH to Your memory?? In 1994 Bill held the SAW record @ 75 MPH with a purpose built SAW boat, not his Race boat.

1994 was also the same year that the Internats were held at Ft.Worth Texas. I won SAW in 20 hydro with a 75 mph average, just 2 tenths under Bill's record. Second place was 70 mph with a Pinckert boat powered by a Picco 21 and S-15 prop that I set up. Marty was there, Ralph was there. I don't know about Bill, but everyone participated in SAW time trials and all the rest of the boats ran in the 60's. Oh except for Marty! Marty out smarted himself and put on a tiny turnfin and managed to find the bank before getting in a good pass.

 

[Tom Foley]

Great stuff here ..keep it coming !

 

[Tim Kish]

Couple of great runnin boats in the videos but we are talking during a race here , whole different ball game

Not sayin that it can't be done , or hasn't been done just hav'nt seen it .

I must correct myself if my memory is correct Mr Bill McGraw ran 82mph at the Spring Nats in 1994 ?

I'll never forget watching his boat.

Tim K

Tim I held Bills radar gun on that same Boat Many Many times @ 82 & 84 mph. Just a little ripple on the water would knock off 3 mph. It would run 84mph on Smooth water. if it was coming towards a large area of a little ripple you would see if fall off 2-3 mph. It did not take much to unhook a little boat. Frank Orlic engine every time. Bill studied the Sleeve on a V block with a dial indicator stationary to the V Block intensely. 3 1/2 lb boat Ralph personally built for Bill`s specs. Many times he would enhance the engine timing numbers by machining the piston height down & Longer rods. Some of the fastest engines were long stoke engines with the Older N/R Big Bore SS P/Liners. They would ROCK........ To tell you how good the Boat Was... a BONE Stk Out of the Box SS N/R engine would run 68 mph in the same boat.

A thing of beauty Joe , something I will never forget.

Tim k

Tim, I do remember attending the 1994 Spring Nats, but are you guys sure that 16 years time has not added 10 MPH to Your memory?? In 1994 Bill held the SAW record @ 75 MPH with a purpose built SAW boat, not his Race boat.

1994 was also the same year that the Internats were held at Ft.Worth Texas. I won SAW in 20 hydro with a 75 mph average, just 2 tenths under Bill's record. Second place was 70 mph with a Pinckert boat powered by a Picco 21 and S-15 prop that I set up. Marty was there, Ralph was there. I don't know about Bill, but everyone participated in SAW time trials and all the rest of the boats ran in the 60's. Oh except for Marty! Marty out smarted himself and put on a tiny turnfin and managed to find the bank before getting in a good pass.

Andy it is very possible that I am not remembering correctly it was 16 years ago (man time flies) and I will be the first to admit that , but one thing I am certain off is that Mr McGraw was in a class of his own at that race .

Tim K

 

[Andy Brown]

Couple of great runnin boats in the videos but we are talking during a race here , whole different ball game

Not sayin that it can't be done , or hasn't been done just hav'nt seen it .

I must correct myself if my memory is correct Mr Bill McGraw ran 82mph at the Spring Nats in 1994 ?

I'll never forget watching his boat.

Tim K

Tim I held Bills radar gun on that same Boat Many Many times @ 82 & 84 mph. Just a little ripple on the water would knock off 3 mph. It would run 84mph on Smooth water. if it was coming towards a large area of a little ripple you would see if fall off 2-3 mph. It did not take much to unhook a little boat. Frank Orlic engine every time. Bill studied the Sleeve on a V block with a dial indicator stationary to the V Block intensely. 3 1/2 lb boat Ralph personally built for Bill`s specs. Many times he would enhance the engine timing numbers by machining the piston height down & Longer rods. Some of the fastest engines were long stoke engines with the Older N/R Big Bore SS P/Liners. They would ROCK........ To tell you how good the Boat Was... a BONE Stk Out of the Box SS N/R engine would run 68 mph in the same boat.

A thing of beauty Joe , something I will never forget.

Tim k

Tim, I do remember attending the 1994 Spring Nats, but are you guys sure that 16 years time has not added 10 MPH to Your memory?? In 1994 Bill held the SAW record @ 75 MPH with a purpose built SAW boat, not his Race boat.

1994 was also the same year that the Internats were held at Ft.Worth Texas. I won SAW in 20 hydro with a 75 mph average, just 2 tenths under Bill's record. Second place was 70 mph with a Pinckert boat powered by a Picco 21 and S-15 prop that I set up. Marty was there, Ralph was there. I don't know about Bill, but everyone participated in SAW time trials and all the rest of the boats ran in the 60's. Oh except for Marty! Marty out smarted himself and put on a tiny turnfin and managed to find the bank before getting in a good pass.

I will add, that I probably would have set a new SAW at that Internats. My first three passes were in the 76-77 mph range, which was the speed I was running in practice the day before. However, the guy on the clock said there was a clock malfunction. He said he was getting readings but they were wrong. He said you can't be running 90 mph. Well it turns out that he was seeing times like 2.922 sec. which is 77 mph. This guy was not used to associating two point something seconds with a .21 boat....especially one running at the Internats in heat trim and 90+ temperatures. He did not write down the times and then I ran out of fuel. They said it was over for me. After a long discussion they finally agreed to give me one set a passes. I made the passes conservatively since I was only getting one shot and I still ran over 75 mph with a pair of two point something seconds passes. I also won Ovals with the same set up which was my race set up. This was 16 years ago....with a 5 port, 13mm crank Picco 21!

 

[Andy Brown]

Couple of great runnin boats in the videos but we are talking during a race here , whole different ball game

Not sayin that it can't be done , or hasn't been done just hav'nt seen it .

I must correct myself if my memory is correct Mr Bill McGraw ran 82mph at the Spring Nats in 1994 ?

I'll never forget watching his boat.

Tim K

Tim I held Bills radar gun on that same Boat Many Many times @ 82 & 84 mph. Just a little ripple on the water would knock off 3 mph. It would run 84mph on Smooth water. if it was coming towards a large area of a little ripple you would see if fall off 2-3 mph. It did not take much to unhook a little boat. Frank Orlic engine every time. Bill studied the Sleeve on a V block with a dial indicator stationary to the V Block intensely. 3 1/2 lb boat Ralph personally built for Bill`s specs. Many times he would enhance the engine timing numbers by machining the piston height down & Longer rods. Some of the fastest engines were long stoke engines with the Older N/R Big Bore SS P/Liners. They would ROCK........ To tell you how good the Boat Was... a BONE Stk Out of the Box SS N/R engine would run 68 mph in the same boat.

A thing of beauty Joe , something I will never forget.

Tim k

Tim, I do remember attending the 1994 Spring Nats, but are you guys sure that 16 years time has not added 10 MPH to Your memory?? In 1994 Bill held the SAW record @ 75 MPH with a purpose built SAW boat, not his Race boat.

1994 was also the same year that the Internats were held at Ft.Worth Texas. I won SAW in 20 hydro with a 75 mph average, just 2 tenths under Bill's record. Second place was 70 mph with a Pinckert boat powered by a Picco 21 and S-15 prop that I set up. Marty was there, Ralph was there. I don't know about Bill, but everyone participated in SAW time trials and all the rest of the boats ran in the 60's. Oh except for Marty! Marty out smarted himself and put on a tiny turnfin and managed to find the bank before getting in a good pass.

Andy it is very possible that I am not remembering correctly it was 16 years ago (man time flies) and I will be the first to admit that , but one thing I am certain off is that Mr McGraw was in a class of his own at that race .

Tim K

Tim, I can agree that Bill had it going on at that race. I only raced 67 hydro there.

 

[Tom Foley]

Couple of great runnin boats in the videos but we are talking during a race here , whole different ball game

Not sayin that it can't be done , or hasn't been done just hav'nt seen it .

I must correct myself if my memory is correct Mr Bill McGraw ran 82mph at the Spring Nats in 1994 ?

I'll never forget watching his boat.

Tim K

Tim I held Bills radar gun on that same Boat Many Many times @ 82 & 84 mph. Just a little ripple on the water would knock off 3 mph. It would run 84mph on Smooth water. if it was coming towards a large area of a little ripple you would see if fall off 2-3 mph. It did not take much to unhook a little boat. Frank Orlic engine every time. Bill studied the Sleeve on a V block with a dial indicator stationary to the V Block intensely. 3 1/2 lb boat Ralph personally built for Bill`s specs. Many times he would enhance the engine timing numbers by machining the piston height down & Longer rods. Some of the fastest engines were long stoke engines with the Older N/R Big Bore SS P/Liners. They would ROCK........ To tell you how good the Boat Was... a BONE Stk Out of the Box SS N/R engine would run 68 mph in the same boat.

A thing of beauty Joe , something I will never forget.

Tim k

Tim, I do remember attending the 1994 Spring Nats, but are you guys sure that 16 years time has not added 10 MPH to Your memory?? In 1994 Bill held the SAW record @ 75 MPH with a purpose built SAW boat, not his Race boat.

1994 was also the same year that the Internats were held at Ft.Worth Texas. I won SAW in 20 hydro with a 75 mph average, just 2 tenths under Bill's record. Second place was 70 mph with a Pinckert boat powered by a Picco 21 and S-15 prop that I set up. Marty was there, Ralph was there. I don't know about Bill, but everyone participated in SAW time trials and all the rest of the boats ran in the 60's. Oh except for Marty! Marty out smarted himself and put on a tiny turnfin and managed to find the bank before getting in a good pass.

I will add, that I probably would have set a new SAW at that Internats. My first three passes were in the 76-77 mph range, which was the speed I was running in practice the day before. However, the guy on the clock said there was a clock malfunction. He said he was getting readings but they were wrong. He said you can't be running 90 mph. Well it turns out that he was seeing times like 2.922 sec. which is 77 mph. This guy was not used to associating two point something seconds with a .21 boat....especially one running at the Internats in heat trim and 90+ temperatures. He did not write down the times and then I ran out of fuel. They said it was over for me. After a long discussion they finally agreed to give me one set a passes. I made the passes conservatively since I was only getting one shot and I still ran over 75 mph with a pair of two point something seconds passes. I also won Ovals with the same set up which was my race set up. This was 16 years ago....with a 5 port, 13mm crank Picco 21!

Picco P- 5 = Bad ass lil motor !!!

 

[Andy Brown]

Couple of great runnin boats in the videos but we are talking during a race here , whole different ball game

Not sayin that it can't be done , or hasn't been done just hav'nt seen it .

I must correct myself if my memory is correct Mr Bill McGraw ran 82mph at the Spring Nats in 1994 ?

I'll never forget watching his boat.

Tim K

Tim I held Bills radar gun on that same Boat Many Many times @ 82 & 84 mph. Just a little ripple on the water would knock off 3 mph. It would run 84mph on Smooth water. if it was coming towards a large area of a little ripple you would see if fall off 2-3 mph. It did not take much to unhook a little boat. Frank Orlic engine every time. Bill studied the Sleeve on a V block with a dial indicator stationary to the V Block intensely. 3 1/2 lb boat Ralph personally built for Bill`s specs. Many times he would enhance the engine timing numbers by machining the piston height down & Longer rods. Some of the fastest engines were long stoke engines with the Older N/R Big Bore SS P/Liners. They would ROCK........ To tell you how good the Boat Was... a BONE Stk Out of the Box SS N/R engine would run 68 mph in the same boat.

A thing of beauty Joe , something I will never forget.

Tim k

Tim, I do remember attending the 1994 Spring Nats, but are you guys sure that 16 years time has not added 10 MPH to Your memory?? In 1994 Bill held the SAW record @ 75 MPH with a purpose built SAW boat, not his Race boat.

1994 was also the same year that the Internats were held at Ft.Worth Texas. I won SAW in 20 hydro with a 75 mph average, just 2 tenths under Bill's record. Second place was 70 mph with a Pinckert boat powered by a Picco 21 and S-15 prop that I set up. Marty was there, Ralph was there. I don't know about Bill, but everyone participated in SAW time trials and all the rest of the boats ran in the 60's. Oh except for Marty! Marty out smarted himself and put on a tiny turnfin and managed to find the bank before getting in a good pass.

I will add, that I probably would have set a new SAW at that Internats. My first three passes were in the 76-77 mph range, which was the speed I was running in practice the day before. However, the guy on the clock said there was a clock malfunction. He said he was getting readings but they were wrong. He said you can't be running 90 mph. Well it turns out that he was seeing times like 2.922 sec. which is 77 mph. This guy was not used to associating two point something seconds with a .21 boat....especially one running at the Internats in heat trim and 90+ temperatures. He did not write down the times and then I ran out of fuel. They said it was over for me. After a long discussion they finally agreed to give me one set a passes. I made the passes conservatively since I was only getting one shot and I still ran over 75 mph with a pair of two point something seconds passes. I also won Ovals with the same set up which was my race set up. This was 16 years ago....with a 5 port, 13mm crank Picco 21!

Picco P- 5 = Bad ass lil motor !!!

I had been running the P-5, but the above mentioned boat had just been set up with a new Picco EXR 21. As did the 2nd place boat that ran 70. BTW- that 2nd place boat was a fiberglass Pinckert Daytona that belong to Stein Tumert from Europe. He came here to race at the Internats and the boat was running about 55 mph. I built him an EXR 21 identical to mine along with an S-15 prop identical to mine. The motor and prop jumped him up to 70 mph. Actually the S-15 did not exist at this time, but the props for those two boats became the mold patterns for the S-15.

 

[Marty Davis]

Couple of great runnin boats in the videos but we are talking during a race here , whole different ball game

Not sayin that it can't be done , or hasn't been done just hav'nt seen it .

I must correct myself if my memory is correct Mr Bill McGraw ran 82mph at the Spring Nats in 1994 ?

I'll never forget watching his boat.

Tim K

Tim I held Bills radar gun on that same Boat Many Many times @ 82 & 84 mph. Just a little ripple on the water would knock off 3 mph. It would run 84mph on Smooth water. if it was coming towards a large area of a little ripple you would see if fall off 2-3 mph. It did not take much to unhook a little boat. Frank Orlic engine every time. Bill studied the Sleeve on a V block with a dial indicator stationary to the V Block intensely. 3 1/2 lb boat Ralph personally built for Bill`s specs. Many times he would enhance the engine timing numbers by machining the piston height down & Longer rods. Some of the fastest engines were long stoke engines with the Older N/R Big Bore SS P/Liners. They would ROCK........ To tell you how good the Boat Was... a BONE Stk Out of the Box SS N/R engine would run 68 mph in the same boat.

A thing of beauty Joe , something I will never forget.

Tim k

Tim, I do remember attending the 1994 Spring Nats, but are you guys sure that 16 years time has not added 10 MPH to Your memory?? In 1994 Bill held the SAW record @ 75 MPH with a purpose built SAW boat, not his Race boat.

1994 was also the same year that the Internats were held at Ft.Worth Texas. I won SAW in 20 hydro with a 75 mph average, just 2 tenths under Bill's record. Second place was 70 mph with a Pinckert boat powered by a Picco 21 and S-15 prop that I set up. Marty was there, Ralph was there. I don't know about Bill, but everyone participated in SAW time trials and all the rest of the boats ran in the 60's. Oh except for Marty! Marty out smarted himself and put on a tiny turnfin and managed to find the bank before getting in a good pass.

I will add, that I probably would have set a new SAW at that Internats. My first three passes were in the 76-77 mph range, which was the speed I was running in practice the day before. However, the guy on the clock said there was a clock malfunction. He said he was getting readings but they were wrong. He said you can't be running 90 mph. Well it turns out that he was seeing times like 2.922 sec. which is 77 mph. This guy was not used to associating two point something seconds with a .21 boat....especially one running at the Internats in heat trim and 90+ temperatures. He did not write down the times and then I ran out of fuel. They said it was over for me. After a long discussion they finally agreed to give me one set a passes. I made the passes conservatively since I was only getting one shot and I still ran over 75 mph with a pair of two point something seconds passes. I also won Ovals with the same set up which was my race set up. This was 16 years ago....with a 5 port, 13mm crank Picco 21!

Picco P- 5 = Bad ass lil motor !!!

I had been running the P-5, but the above mentioned boat had just been set up with a new Picco EXR 21. As did the 2nd place boat that ran 70. BTW- that 2nd place boat was a fiberglass Pinckert Daytona that belong to Stein Tumert from Europe. He came here to race at the Internats and the boat was running about 55 mph. I built him an EXR 21 identical to mine along with an S-15 prop identical to mine. The motor and prop jumped him up to 70 mph. Actually the S-15 did not exist at this time, but the props for those two boats became the mold patterns for the S-15.

That was in Ft Worth wasn't it?

I remember Stein running and running and running. Must have burned 2 gallons of fuel testing before the Nats. I remember your 20 hydro was amazingly fast at that Nats.

 

[Andy Brown]

Couple of great runnin boats in the videos but we are talking during a race here , whole different ball game

Not sayin that it can't be done , or hasn't been done just hav'nt seen it .

I must correct myself if my memory is correct Mr Bill McGraw ran 82mph at the Spring Nats in 1994 ?

I'll never forget watching his boat.

Tim K

Tim I held Bills radar gun on that same Boat Many Many times @ 82 & 84 mph. Just a little ripple on the water would knock off 3 mph. It would run 84mph on Smooth water. if it was coming towards a large area of a little ripple you would see if fall off 2-3 mph. It did not take much to unhook a little boat. Frank Orlic engine every time. Bill studied the Sleeve on a V block with a dial indicator stationary to the V Block intensely. 3 1/2 lb boat Ralph personally built for Bill`s specs. Many times he would enhance the engine timing numbers by machining the piston height down & Longer rods. Some of the fastest engines were long stoke engines with the Older N/R Big Bore SS P/Liners. They would ROCK........ To tell you how good the Boat Was... a BONE Stk Out of the Box SS N/R engine would run 68 mph in the same boat.

A thing of beauty Joe , something I will never forget.

Tim k

Tim, I do remember attending the 1994 Spring Nats, but are you guys sure that 16 years time has not added 10 MPH to Your memory?? In 1994 Bill held the SAW record @ 75 MPH with a purpose built SAW boat, not his Race boat.

1994 was also the same year that the Internats were held at Ft.Worth Texas. I won SAW in 20 hydro with a 75 mph average, just 2 tenths under Bill's record. Second place was 70 mph with a Pinckert boat powered by a Picco 21 and S-15 prop that I set up. Marty was there, Ralph was there. I don't know about Bill, but everyone participated in SAW time trials and all the rest of the boats ran in the 60's. Oh except for Marty! Marty out smarted himself and put on a tiny turnfin and managed to find the bank before getting in a good pass.

I will add, that I probably would have set a new SAW at that Internats. My first three passes were in the 76-77 mph range, which was the speed I was running in practice the day before. However, the guy on the clock said there was a clock malfunction. He said he was getting readings but they were wrong. He said you can't be running 90 mph. Well it turns out that he was seeing times like 2.922 sec. which is 77 mph. This guy was not used to associating two point something seconds with a .21 boat....especially one running at the Internats in heat trim and 90+ temperatures. He did not write down the times and then I ran out of fuel. They said it was over for me. After a long discussion they finally agreed to give me one set a passes. I made the passes conservatively since I was only getting one shot and I still ran over 75 mph with a pair of two point something seconds passes. I also won Ovals with the same set up which was my race set up. This was 16 years ago....with a 5 port, 13mm crank Picco 21!

Picco P- 5 = Bad ass lil motor !!!

I had been running the P-5, but the above mentioned boat had just been set up with a new Picco EXR 21. As did the 2nd place boat that ran 70. BTW- that 2nd place boat was a fiberglass Pinckert Daytona that belong to Stein Tumert from Europe. He came here to race at the Internats and the boat was running about 55 mph. I built him an EXR 21 identical to mine along with an S-15 prop identical to mine. The motor and prop jumped him up to 70 mph. Actually the S-15 did not exist at this time, but the props for those two boats became the mold patterns for the S-15.

That was in Ft Worth wasn't it?

I remember Stein running and running and running. Must have burned 2 gallons of fuel testing before the Nats. I remember your 20 hydro was amazingly fast at that Nats.

Yes Marty, Ft Worth. In case you missed my other previous post, I quietly mentioned your mishap with the bank during your SAW attempt in 20 hydro.

 

[Marty Davis]

Couple of great runnin boats in the videos but we are talking during a race here , whole different ball game

Not sayin that it can't be done , or hasn't been done just hav'nt seen it .

I must correct myself if my memory is correct Mr Bill McGraw ran 82mph at the Spring Nats in 1994 ?

I'll never forget watching his boat.

Tim K

Tim I held Bills radar gun on that same Boat Many Many times @ 82 & 84 mph. Just a little ripple on the water would knock off 3 mph. It would run 84mph on Smooth water. if it was coming towards a large area of a little ripple you would see if fall off 2-3 mph. It did not take much to unhook a little boat. Frank Orlic engine every time. Bill studied the Sleeve on a V block with a dial indicator stationary to the V Block intensely. 3 1/2 lb boat Ralph personally built for Bill`s specs. Many times he would enhance the engine timing numbers by machining the piston height down & Longer rods. Some of the fastest engines were long stoke engines with the Older N/R Big Bore SS P/Liners. They would ROCK........ To tell you how good the Boat Was... a BONE Stk Out of the Box SS N/R engine would run 68 mph in the same boat.

A thing of beauty Joe , something I will never forget.

Tim k

Tim, I do remember attending the 1994 Spring Nats, but are you guys sure that 16 years time has not added 10 MPH to Your memory?? In 1994 Bill held the SAW record @ 75 MPH with a purpose built SAW boat, not his Race boat.

1994 was also the same year that the Internats were held at Ft.Worth Texas. I won SAW in 20 hydro with a 75 mph average, just 2 tenths under Bill's record. Second place was 70 mph with a Pinckert boat powered by a Picco 21 and S-15 prop that I set up. Marty was there, Ralph was there. I don't know about Bill, but everyone participated in SAW time trials and all the rest of the boats ran in the 60's. Oh except for Marty! Marty out smarted himself and put on a tiny turnfin and managed to find the bank before getting in a good pass.

I will add, that I probably would have set a new SAW at that Internats. My first three passes were in the 76-77 mph range, which was the speed I was running in practice the day before. However, the guy on the clock said there was a clock malfunction. He said he was getting readings but they were wrong. He said you can't be running 90 mph. Well it turns out that he was seeing times like 2.922 sec. which is 77 mph. This guy was not used to associating two point something seconds with a .21 boat....especially one running at the Internats in heat trim and 90+ temperatures. He did not write down the times and then I ran out of fuel. They said it was over for me. After a long discussion they finally agreed to give me one set a passes. I made the passes conservatively since I was only getting one shot and I still ran over 75 mph with a pair of two point something seconds passes. I also won Ovals with the same set up which was my race set up. This was 16 years ago....with a 5 port, 13mm crank Picco 21!

Picco P- 5 = Bad ass lil motor !!!

I had been running the P-5, but the above mentioned boat had just been set up with a new Picco EXR 21. As did the 2nd place boat that ran 70. BTW- that 2nd place boat was a fiberglass Pinckert Daytona that belong to Stein Tumert from Europe. He came here to race at the Internats and the boat was running about 55 mph. I built him an EXR 21 identical to mine along with an S-15 prop identical to mine. The motor and prop jumped him up to 70 mph. Actually the S-15 did not exist at this time, but the props for those two boats became the mold patterns for the S-15.

That was in Ft Worth wasn't it?

I remember Stein running and running and running. Must have burned 2 gallons of fuel testing before the Nats. I remember your 20 hydro was amazingly fast at that Nats.

Yes Marty, Ft Worth. In case you missed my other previous post, I quietly mentioned your mishap with the bank during your SAW attempt in 20 hydro.

I convieniently don't remember that.....