Wow! Prices.

[HTV Boats]

The hybrid has the smallest battery and the plug in has a for lack of better description has a medium to smaller battery than a full EV. In 5 years this discussion will be moot.
Look at the Lucid 1050 hp and 500 mile charge. only 150K https://www.lucidmotors.com/
They are working on a 300 mile charge in 20 minutes. Miles per minute will very competitive in the EV market;

What we do to generate electricity is also a consideration. Oil hopefully will just become a lubricant.
Mic

 

[FloridaScaleBoater]

Speaking of batteries, have you seen the mining operations for the lithium for these batteries? BIG AZZ hole in the ground.
Great for the environment??
What do you think the disposal yards will look like when the batteries go bad?
Another, Great for the environment!!

 

[LARRY LAHUE]

I suppose this is all Joe Biden's fault too?

View attachment 304819

 

[Don Ferrette]

Sure the EV technology will get there but we are nowhere near close enough to have the current administration trying to force it down everyone's throats like they are. There is a far bigger issue that all the pro EV folks don't want to talk about (the typical elephant in the room) and that is our current power grid infrastructure. Right now we can't handle a 15% increase nationally in EV vehicles as far as charging, it will cripple the already fragile grids. I am not against EVs but before you try to force them you better be able to properly support them and right now we can't.

Another avoided topic of EVs is the extreme safety hazard they present, especially in crash situations. I've had some very interesting conversations with a good friend who is a firefighter/EMT that specializes in hazmat situations. The stuff he has shared with me is downright scary. Here is a quote from one his posts on a EV battery fire thread on FB-

From a firefighters perspective EVs in general are a nightmare. Traditional firefighting tactics for vehicle fires don’t work and can even make the situation worse, you can’t bring enough water to stop a thermal runaway and foam firefighting agents don’t work. There is a significant risk of electrical shock working around a crash damaged EV. If the battery bank is damaged it turns into a legit hazmat situation requiring special equipment and protective gear to even get near it. Even if they don’t light off at the scene they have a nasty habit of thermal runaway hours to days after a wreck sitting in someone’s tow lot. They present challenges to patient extrication because of the materials they’re made from and not knowing where high voltage lines might be, you can’t just go cutting into them like a normal car making extrication a lengthy and careful process.

 

[Wasted wages]

Look at the Lucid 1050 hp and 500 mile charge.

$ 107-169K
You gotta be outta your mind....

 

[HTV Boats]

Lucid is targeting the Mercedes luxury crowd. One of the Tesla engineers is involved with ownership and trying to one up his former employer. I'm in the KIA market
What is crazy is a gas half ton pickup close to 80K.
As for firefighters ask them about magnesium VW's
Mic

 

[Don Ferrette]

Lucid is targeting the Mercedes luxury crowd. One of the Tesla engineers is involved with ownership and trying to one up his former employer. I'm in the KIA market
What is crazy is a gas half ton pickup close to 80K.
As for firefighters ask them about magnesium VW's
Mic

Oh please magnesium fires aren't even remotely close to the many hazards of EV batteries. Nice try, no cigar for you.

 

[John Seybold]

At least prices at the pump are headed lower. President Biden promised he will do everything in his power to reduce the cost at the pump.

During his press conference he said he will face many challenges throughout his presidency but lowering gas prices will be one of the easiest to tackle. In fact he said an I quote “It’ll be as easy as riding a bicycle“

 

[Hydro Junkie]

Oh please magnesium fires aren't even remotely close to the many hazards of EV batteries. Nice try, no cigar for you.

Sorry Don, can't quite agree with you on this one. A magnesium fire is very difficult to borderline impossible to put out. The Navy used to put the sailors through a course on how to deal with one. The easiest way to deal with a magnesium fire was to use a firehose to push it over the side if it happened on a weather deck. If it happened below deck, it could do enough damage to sink the ship

 

[Don Ferrette]

Sorry Don, can't quite agree with you on this one. A magnesium fire is very difficult to borderline impossible to put out. The Navy used to put the sailors through a course on how to deal with one. The easiest way to deal with a magnesium fire was to use a firehose to push it over the side if it happened on a weather deck. If it happened below deck, it could do enough damage to sink the ship

When magnesium burns it does not create the biohazard that lithium does. Even if the lithium battery just gasses off and doesn't burn it's fatal to anyone trapped in the vehicle. Yes magnesium burns super hot, yes the flames are vitually impossible to see with the naked eye and yes it's damn near impossible to put out but still not the same.

 

[HTV Boats]

So we should not even pursue EV's for battery hazards. I guess gasoline is much safer in a crash. You are not being forced to drive an EV. All I see is a Biden blame fest. He is promoting the future with an alternative and should be crucified for it. I guess you all injected bleach rather than a Covid vaccine.
Mic

 

[FloridaScaleBoater]

Ok Mic, this thread started off as a "WOW the price of stuff today"
I had asked these VERY easy and direct questions previously and received NO answers!
1: Who is to blame for the high price of gas?
In my mind it is Joe Biden. His first day in office he shut down the Keystone pipeline.
Canceled drilling permits on federal land, hand cuffed the offshore drilling in federal waters.
What did this lead to? Dependants on Russia, Venezuela, and some other little corrupt 3rd world country for crude oil at extremely higher prices.
So, who is to blame?
2: How in you mind is the flood of illegal immigrants OK coming across our southern border and who is to blame?
Joe Biden shut down the construction of the southern border wall, leaving already paid for materials sitting on the ground and paying off the previously negotiated construction contracts.
How is this GOOD for the U.S.?
I did have other questions but can't think of the others0

As far as the "Bleach Vaccine" no!
I opted to forgo the ***!!

 

[Hydro Junkie]

When magnesium burns it does not create the biohazard that lithium does. Even if the lithium battery just gasses off and doesn't burn it's fatal to anyone trapped in the vehicle. Yes magnesium burns super hot, yes the flames are vitually impossible to see with the naked eye and yes it's **** near impossible to put out but still not the same.

Don,
Now that I know where you were heading, I can totally agree with your clarification. Thank You

Mic,
Both batteries and petroleum products have their own risks. Don, in his last post, laid out those associated with batteries themselves. The power cables create a serious risk to both passengers and rescue personnel in the event of an accident. When you switch over to petroleum powered vehicles you have the possible chance of of a fire and/or spillage of the various fluids and the environmental hazards associated with said spills but you also don't have the electrical issues to passengers or rescue personnel. If the fluids do catch fire, there are well known, effective ways to put out the fire quickly, such as a powder style or CO2 fire extinguisher, fire fighting foam or just plain water.

 

[Hydro Junkie]

Ok Mic, this thread started off as a "WOW the price of stuff today"
I had asked these VERY easy and direct questions previously and received NO answers!
1: Who is to blame for the high price of gas?
In my mind it is Joe Biden. His first day in office he shut down the Keystone pipeline.
Canceled drilling permits on federal land, hand cuffed the offshore drilling in federal waters.
What did this lead to? Dependants on Russia, Venezuela, and some other little corrupt 3rd world country for crude oil at extremely higher prices.
So, who is to blame?
2: How in you mind is the flood of illegal immigrants OK coming across our southern border and who is to blame?
Joe Biden shut down the construction of the southern border wall, leaving already paid for materials sitting on the ground and paying off the previously negotiated construction contracts.
How is this GOOD for the U.S.?
I did have other questions but can't think of the others0

As far as the "Bleach Vaccine" no!
I opted to forgo the ***!!

As much as they say it's "Putin's Fault", the "oil company's greed", which it isn't in either case, or any of the other groups being blamed, the Biden Cabinet is responsible for all of the issues we have right now with

1. the southern border, which wasn't being over run prior to January 20, 2021, which was, ironically, the day Joe Bident took the office of President. I'm not saying we didn't have illegals coming across the border, because we did, just that there wasn't the THOUSANDS PER DAY that we have now
2. unparalleled inflation, due to the Biden/far left attack on fossil fuels. What these idiots seem to have forgotten is what all fossil fuels are used for:

• Making fuel for cars, trucks, buses, ships, trains and planes needed to transport products to the consumers
• Making fuel for the equipment used to cultivate, mine, harvest, etc the raw materials needed to supply food and products to the consumers
• Making fuel and equipment for the Military to operate
• Making materials, such as plastics, needed to make products for consumers
• Powering electrical generating plants so that a majority of the country has electricity for a wide variety of uses
• Powering the heating and cooling equipment for homes, offices, manufacturing facilities
• Making materials like plastics that are used to make products

I wonder how long it would take for the Biden cabinet to repeal the executive orders used to stop fossil fuel production if they had to pay for everything they use instead of letting the taxpayers foot the bill? Just think,

• John Kerry couldn't be flying all over the world in his private jet in the name of "Climate Change"
• Joe Biden wouldn't be able to fly in Marine One to his estate in Delaware or Camp David for his three and four day weekends, use Air Force One to go anywhere, or have the use of the armored limo used to travel on the ground
• Everyone would have to buy the food and drinks they have enjoyed for free
• They would have to cut down on the lighting used at the various government supplied homes as well as what is used to heat and cool them

Sounds like something that needs to be instituted, taking all the costs out of the cabinet member's paychecks. I wonder how many would go bankrupt and, then again, how fast would it happen?

 

[Don Ferrette]

So we should not even pursue EV's for battery hazards. I guess gasoline is much safer in a crash. You are not being forced to drive an EV. All I see is a Biden blame fest. He is promoting the future with an alternative and should be crucified for it. I guess you all injected bleach rather than a Covid vaccine.
Mic

Just stop Mic. NOBODY is saying not to pursue it, we need to do MUCH MORE before it gets forced down everyone's throat as the current administration is trying to do now. We need massive improvements in both our national power grid and the ability to protect that grid (do some actual research on how vulnerable it is RIGHT NOW). There needs to be ways put in place to deal with the safety of rescue/EMT crews in handling EV crashes and the hazmat situations they create. And finally you need to have the ability to safely and effectively charge these vehicles across the ENTIRE country. And you did what so many Dems do when facts come into play..... you come on with a childish statement about bleach/covid. Nice. Back at ya- maybe that *** whacked your brain to not see the hard truths in how we are not there yet to go all in on EV.

Have a nice day.

 

[Hydro Junkie]

Okay, getting back to what I computed for range on the F-150 Lighning, I figured about 250 miles per charge. Just watched a video where they took the battery all the way up to 100% and ran it until the truck shut down. I was surprised, I was off by only 10 miles as shown in this video:

Even with the Lightning being able to go 10 miles further than I figured, I still can get 60 or so more with my S-10 and not take over an hour to gas up

 

[zboter1]

Okay, getting back to what I computed for range on the F-150 Lighning, I figured about 250 miles per charge. Just watched a video where they took the battery all the way up to 100% and ran it until the truck shut down. I was surprised, I was off by only 10 miles as shown in this video:

Even with the Lightning being able to go 10 miles further than I figured, I still can get 60 or so more with my S-10 and not take over an hour to gas up

tests should be done with a load. I feel like its false info. if your just gonna drive around in it why would you buy a truck? specially for milage?
kinda like the E85. most people think they will get better gas milage out of E85. its as high as gas. even though we are only getting 90 percent of a gallon of gas cause sign says gas may contain up to 10 percent methanal. and a 10.$ sheet of OSB is 40+ dollars a sheet.
I have also seen a 25$2x12x16 at 98$ 250' roll of 12-2-g 150$+. Sorry Junkie and all. was reading all this and my pantys got bunched up.

 

[HTV Boats]

My facetious statement on bleach originated from your "fearless leader" who was not making a joke. Then again to dismiss what trump said about grabbing women as locker room talk. You might want to explain that to your wife or daughter. Doesn't fly in my world.
And yes, we are not up to speed on EV support at this time. But no one is making anyone buy one. If you start out just criticizing, you never will go forward. Kind of where politics is right now.
Oil is driving most of the prices. It still is a traded commodity worldwide. Supply and demand we all know the drill. I remember in the 80's we were supposed to run out by 2000 something. It is still out there, and I wonder how much drilling is just capped for more money later. Someone is making a lot of money. Who is a good question? The answer will be there, and "money" leaves a trail that can be proven. Then again some find ways to manipulate and hide things. Who's hiding financials. Biden or trump.
Mic-

 

[Al Hobbs]

The growth in energy demand is faster than our ability to produce more energy. As neighborhoods develope, the need for natural gas, electricity, asphalt streets, and automotive fuel grow just as fast if not faster.

This means we have to emphasize the growth of energy supplies. Reducing the amount of crude oil produced in the USA is a huge problem, both for product avalabilty and for cost.

I do not see how we can increase electricty production to keep up with energy demand. We will be faced with a real problem just having the electricity supply to keep our houses liveable, much less add the extra demand to charge EVs.

So, how do we best make use of the facilites we have today?

Our friends and neighbors in Canada have a huge crude oil supply. Because the oil sands crude oil is heavy and sour, it is priced well below crude oils produced in the USA, the MidEast and Africa. Heavy, sour crude oils are difficult to refine. Something must be done with the sulfur. Large crude oil molecules must be broken down into smaller molecules.

Pre-2000 the USA imported a lot of Mexican Mayan crude oil. It is a heavy, sour crude oil, difficult to refine. Huge refineries along the Gulf Coast refined Mexico's Mayan crude oil.

However, the Mayan crude oil supply is about gone. We have huge Gulf Coast refineries developed to refine heavy, sour and cheap crude oil and a lack of supply. The heavy, sour crude oil in Canada can not move efficiently to the USA refineries able to make good use of it.

Build the pipelines to move the Canadian crude oils to the Gulf Coast refineries. This increases supply available to the USA and reduces average crude oil costs.

Someone please explain this to Washington, DC.

Al Hobbs

 

[Hydro Junkie]

No apology needed Paul. You're just giving your opinion and, last I knew, that was part of what internet forums are for.
Now, with that said, when you look at the new trucks, some of them are worthless for carrying cargo. A full-sized crew cab used to have a bed that could carry a full 4X8 foot sheet of plywood lying flat in the bed. Now days, a majority of the crew cabs have a four to five foot bed that requires the tail gate to be down and the ply sticking out the back. In the case of the Lightning, I just did a google search and was almost shocked at what I found:

• The F-150 Lightning is offered only as a crew-cab with a 5.5-foot bed. While it's possible Ford could offer Regular (two-door) or SuperCab (rear half-doors) configurations later on, we think most buyers will appreciate the roomy four-door cabin.

Seems kind of stupid for Ford to only sell a vehicle as a half ton that only comes in one configuration, other than the amount of batteries it has. To me, it's not a half ton truck but, rather, a four door sedan with an oversized body and open air trunk. Granted, it can tow a 10,000 load for maybe 130 miles but is it really worth the price tag?
For $40,000, I bought a 2011 Tahoe, rated as a half-ton as well, that will tow the same amount of weight for twice as far and not require the long recharge time. If I wanted to buy a new 2022 equivalent, I would be looking at $72,500. The difference would be I would lose some tow weight capability as the new one would have 4WD(my 2011 doesn't) and it would only pull 8200lbs instead of the 10,000 my 2011 can handle. What really sucks is that, in the Silverado line up, you can't get an eight foot bed unless you buy the work truck with a standard cab. In fact, the spec sheet lists the following:

• short bed is 69.92"
• standard bed is 79.44"
• long bed is 98.18"

I guess GM doesn't see the average person needing a full eight foot bed any more