Tunnel Hull Design

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Thanks Rodney,

Hey Tim,

Yea, just looking for a ballpark no. before tha hook'n starts...........

Gene
 
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Slideblues,

Always run the O/S or lower unit on the Lynx or a lower unit that has the same prop placement +/- 1/8".

-Carl,
I found the best speed and handling for my Lynx with a K&B 7.5 lower unit.
That is a very interesting gear drive you have on your outboard. What ratios have you experimented with? Is that your own design? Eliminates the need for an outboard kit altogether......... ;)
 
Hi James

have you thought maybe it has got to do with boat design,

that you are having issue's turning!

also i think the x640 will have less lift

P.S guys great thread.

cheers Luca
Hi Luca,

I think it definitely has to do with boat design.... and prop, prop cut, weight distribution, engine angle, the list goes on. Maybe there's a slight warp in the boat designer too ;)

As James said, the hull is in development and we're experimenting with props and understanding their effects.

I'd love to sit down with you some time and pick your brain on hull design. Do you run tunnels? Where in the world do you live? Maybe some time we'll get to run boats against each other. After all, you've summed it up brilliantly.. "It's all about the fun!"

And I agree, this is a great thread!

Cheers,

Dave
 
Hello Bob,

Okay...All of us have tried the K&B lower unit on the Lynx to see what it would do. Talley, Rushing, Sanders and I all put 7.5 stock outboards with K&B stock engines on the Lynx one weekend just to see what would happen! It was a HOOT! We tried the 7.5 lowerunits with 3.5 engines, we put 2 stock 7.5 O/B's on 7.5 size hulls, then 2 3.5 O/S on the Shaman. We go out of the box on everything to see where the limit is plus it is just insane to bring some crazy idea to the pond on Sunday.

Nothing performed like the O/S or Outlaw units. Not to say the K&B won't push the boat around the track but will it give you the best of everything that the boat requires?

The Lynx is a small boat and some of the most important things to the setup are, Prop placement and pivot pin location. I have found that if you get the prop too far back (past 6 inches) it stiffens the ride too much to suit me.

But I am glad to hear that you are running one. Bring it to Huntsville.

-Carl,
 
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Slideblues,

Always run the O/S or lower unit on the Lynx or a lower unit that has the same prop placement +/- 1/8".

-Carl,
I found the best speed and handling for my Lynx with a K&B 7.5 lower unit.
That is a very interesting gear drive you have on your outboard. What ratios have you experimented with? Is that your own design? Eliminates the need for an outboard kit altogether......... ;)
The gear drive is from England. It is slightly under driven. The Orion CRF will pull an Octura X646 easily and is quite fast. Did you notice the OPS3280 pipe cut and sectioned to wrap around the back? Any .21 thru .28 car motor will fit this drive.
 
Slideblues,

Always run the O/S or lower unit on the Lynx or a lower unit that has the same prop placement +/- 1/8".

-Carl,
I found the best speed and handling for my Lynx with a K&B 7.5 lower unit.
That is a very interesting gear drive you have on your outboard. What ratios have you experimented with? Is that your own design? Eliminates the need for an outboard kit altogether......... ;)
The gear drive is from England. It is slightly under driven. The Orion CRF will pull an Octura X646 easily and is quite fast. Did you notice the OPS3280 pipe cut and sectioned to wrap around the back? Any .21 thru .28 car motor will fit this drive.
That drive is very interesting. I would like to try it with some of NovaRossi's high end .21 engines such as the Flash .21!!! Is the contact in England on IW? I did see the pipe as well. Is that one of your creations? I have one of those in my garage but I'm not sure if it's the same. The one I have looks to be for a 40 size engine considering the diameter of the tuning band. I really enjoyed our conversation today. I hope you can get something to me this week. Let me know what I owe you for the pipe once you come up with something. I am also excited about the opportunity to drive another one of Tommy's boats, the one that didn't make it to production!!!!!!!!........ ;)
 
James,

The X-640 will have more lift in it with the 1.6 pitch ratio.

The Lynx-cut propellers are all custom to the motor and set up.

The Novas like around 3.46" of cup and some of the O. S. Set ups

Like a lot less like 2.90" of cup. They are all back cut 6 mm up and

3 mm in. The biggest issue is the diameter of the propeller. Some

Like more than others. I think 38 mm is just right for a 21 tunnel.

You will have to test a few to get the performance that you are

looking for. I would not run the X-442 Lynx-cut with stock cup

On a X-442, way too much cup for a tunnel boat.

Thanks For Reading,

Mark Sholund
 
I dont want to sound mean or destructive, but perhaps we could start a prop thread also? I dont want this thread to get too side tracked and away from the actual design aspects of the tunnel hulls. There is some excellent information here from some of the design masters of the r/c boat world, and would like to keep it flowing in that direction if at all possible. Thanks for understanding :D
 
Guys,

Something I've been wondering about for a while now is secondary ride pads and their function. I've noticed their inclusion on several tunnels, especially the Woodstuff / ML Boatworks hulls. I know these hulls work very well so I'm guessing the ride pads must be doing something right! Would be interested to hear the theories and practical findings.

Thanks,

Dave
 
I dont want to sound mean or destructive, but perhaps we could start a prop thread also? I dont want this thread to get too side tracked and away from the actual design aspects of the tunnel hulls. There is some excellent information here from some of the design masters of the r/c boat world, and would like to keep it flowing in that direction if at all possible. Thanks for understanding :D
Agree with RP 100% on this.
 
Guys,

Something I've been wondering about for a while now is secondary ride pads and their function. I've noticed their inclusion on several tunnels, especially the Woodstuff / ML Boatworks hulls. I know these hulls work very well so I'm guessing the ride pads must be doing something right! Would be interested to hear the theories and practical findings.

Thanks,

Dave

Do any of you guru's have any insight on these secondary ride pads? I would also like to know, and was wondering the same thing.
 
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I had two Woodstuff tunnels. One had the secondary surface, the other did not. They were different sized hulls so I couldn't do a apples to apples comparison, but my 29" sport tunnel with out the added pads was a far superior hull to the 32" B tunnel with them.. Currently in my tunnel fleet are 2 Nemesis hulls, one with the original sponson design the other the updated version, a Lynx, and a soon to arrive Vision...None of these hulls have the secondary ride surface.

Larry
 
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David, If you would like some insight to why I use secondary ride pads, and why they work, shoot me a PM and I will give you some details. Mike
 
My SAW boat has them because i wanted a deeper tunnel and a thinner ride pad but the boat was already built.

Hey Mike, why cant you post your thoughts here?

Cheers

kris
 
I guess I can Kris. I just don't want it turning into an argument like it normally does when I post in a tunnel thread. These are my views and I have tested them.

First, I would like to discuss why you would, or would not need a secondary ridepad. As Larry Mentioned above, none of his current hulls have secondary pads. Probably a good reason for it. A typical tunnel design specifically built to carry the light load of a nitro setup would not necessarily need wide primary pads to begin with or large sponsons for that matter, so the overall benefit might be pretty low if you primary pad is narrow to begin with. One of those hulls Larry mentioned has a mild problem with extremely slick water conditions, it gets "sticky" on the water, and could probably benefit from a secondary pad, but slick conditions don't really exist to often in race water, so its not a big deal. It also happens to have the widest primary pad of the group...so think about that.

Next, in discussing the Woodstuff hulls. I actually owned both Larry's 32" and the 28" (His actual hulls). Larry's 28" was an older design of the Woodstuff line without the secondary pads, and I just happened to own the newer 28" with the secondary pads before purchasing Larry's. I can say the newer model performed better with the secondary pads. The one without felt like it was struggling to free itself of the water. It always felt kinda sticky. The 32" was just plain fast and handled it great, and it turns great. The 32" Woodstuff, I can honestly say is one of the best all around hulls I have owned as its big enough to handle rough conditions and 5s power. Now, I ran all mine with FE setups, and I am pretty sure Larry's were Nitro, and maybe that lead to his opinion in how he liked it running. Again, these are opinions and my experiences.

Finally, why I use the secondary pads. The secondary pads on my boats, and the Woodstuff hulls, help them out because both the hulls use wide primary pads and larger sponsons than that the typical other hulls on the market. Mike Crawford uses large sponsons on his hulls because of rough water conditions he experiences up north. He found a larger platform could complete races better in high seas. He added secondary pads to free up that surface area on the wide primary pad so the boat could regain speed in the straights and not be a burden of its own design. My purpose for wider ride pads is simply because my hulls start out as FE hulls, and then they get back converted for nitro. Not the norm in the market. I have tested many different hulls and did not like having small sponsons carrying around battery weight. I felt a larger platform under all that weight was a good idea, so a wider sponson was the choice. Like Mike Crawford at Woodstuff, I needed to free up the large primary pad, so a secondary pad was installed. This also makes the hull more efficient in the straights as well, and anyone that runs P-Limited knows efficiency is how you gain an edge with that class of hull. You are limited to your power plant, so you have to gain advantages in other areas. Now, it just so happens the Nitro version of the 295 is currently in position to win (Or may have if they do not do a makeup race for the last race that was cancelled) District 12 with stock power. The boat was really fast and people have made mention it looked like it second staged down the straights. I have a feeling that was the boat popping up on those secondary pads and becoming more efficient and faster!

I am currently testing a new design hull that actually utilizes secondary pads theories even more and some other ideas I cannot discuss at this time but I will say its looking good so far. Lots and lots of testing left to do.

I hope this helped enlighten those that were interested, and didn't offend anyone that disagrees. Again, these are my views. They work on my boats, so I use them, not trying to push anyone into anything.

Thanks, Mike

ML Boatworks
 
i'm no tunnel design guru by any means, but mike's 295 nitro design is a VERY fast, stable hull. i know, because i have to race against it in d-12.....nice work, mike. it is a tough hull to beat in ANY water conditions.
 
Anyone still using strakes?

Sand down for desired effect, I would think free up the wider profile surface,

Or is that different......

Gene
 

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