TS2 kibbles and bits

[Ronald van Essen]

JD, the after repair pointed nose looks good, like it...

BTW, got the chance to run today, i'm getting 34-36 mph with 45% nitro...what is the expected speed of TS2 with stock OS XM, muffler and prop?

Don't know the exact secrets of Ron Byrd, but mr Racecraftbearings TS2 with OS was running some 50 mph I believe at the tunnel shootout this year.

Ronald.

He modified his engine, had a tuned pipe on it and had it trimmed very light. It was fast but he was constantly challenged to keep it on the water. He was right at 50-51 mph.

Isn't Mr Racecraft Bearings now the proud owner of a Lynx?

Mark

As far as I know he has an orange Lynx.

This one:http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/rmhalliday/detail?.dir=/c646&.dnm=e845.jpg&.src=ph

I don't know if he is proud.

Ronald.

 

[Nitrolizer]

Hello all!

Ok, so now I have been reading through this whole thread and also the other TS2 thread (http://www.intlwaters.com/index.php?showtopic=12576), and I would like to thank everyone for their posts. I bought a TS2 about a week ago, and after intensive reading I now feel a little more prepared for the last assembly needed (havn't started on it yet, it's still in its box), and also a little prepared for the first testruns.

I've been interested in RC stuff all my life, but am new to boating. This is my first tunnel hull and my 2nd nitro boat ever.

I do have some questions that came to mind, which I was hoping you guys could help me with.

Radio box:

The instuction manual says NOT to glue the radio box to the hull. Why is this?

JD said in a post (post #84) that the radio box is secured into place by the cowling. But even so, is there actually a reason not to glue the radio box to the hull? What negative effect would that have? Wouldn't the radio box be even more secured if it was glued to the hull? As I can see it, you can still access the radio equipment without having to remove the radio box... correct?

Pulling out the head shim:

I've seen a lot of talk about doing this, and if I understand it correctly it will increase the performance to some point. I am going to mount an OS outboard, but have actually got no clue even about what the head shim is So if anyone would be so kind and explain the correct procedure of pulling the shim, as detailed as possible, it would be really cool

Shoboat wrote: "Pull out the head shim, turbo the crank,get a oiler on the motor w/Slick 50,add some 70%"

Pull out the head shim?? Turbo the what??? :huh: "Olier" on the motor...?? What's my name??? :blink: Where am I?? WHO am I????? Heeeelp! :lol:

Btw... There will be no tuned pipes for me, since that would prevent me from participate in the 3.5cc catamaran outboard class, which this boat runs under here in Sweden. But I guess I could always pull the shim and maybe also "turbo the crank". But I'm not really sure if even that's allowed, I will look into it.

Water cooling:

Does it matter which two of the cooling connectors I use as an inlet and outlet for the waterflow? And can I leave the outlet unconnected? Since it's an outboard, the water will go back into the sea/lake from the outlet anyway, right?

Water types:

This is also kinda a water cooling question; How about driving the boat in salt water? I guess the hull should have no probs with either salt or fresh water, but I was thinking more about the cooling system in the engine. If I run the boat in salt water, do I afterwards somehow have to pump in some "clean" water through the cooling system from my sink at home, just to clear out the remaining salt in the engine?

Prop question:

What's the difference in performance between a 2-blader and 3-blader of the same kind? For example, the X440 and X440/3? According to the Octura Prop Chart, the characteristics for these two props are 100% identical. Any advantages/disadvantages between 2-bladed or 3-bladed props, and what exactly is the difference?

I am thinking of starting out with a X440 or X440/3 for the first testruns and the break-in, and see how it works.

And as for the break-in:

How do you guys break in your OS outboard? Have you removed the shim already before the break-in? Should I use a different type of fuel when breaking in than I would use otherwise? If so, which fuel should I use? (With this question, I am mostly thinking about the % of oil, and the type of oil used, not the % of nitro.)

I'm thinking about starting out with just 25% nitro for the break-in, and maybe try more nitro later when the engine break-in is completed and I've managed to get good settings for the thrust and all that other stuff. Sounds OK?

I am not very used to boat engines (only planes and cars), hence my question. I don't want to shorten the life of my brand new engine due to a bad break-in the first thing I do, so I hope you can help me out.

The fuel tubing:

Can I use the tubing provided for both the tank and the water cooling system? Or should there be a special tubing for the water cooling? If so, which?

Does this hull need to be prepared with some kind of nitro-block? My first nitro boat with an inboard engine had to be prepared with this, I had to buy nitro-block on a spraytube and spray the whole inside of the hull. It probably wasn't very healthy to breathe in the fumes... :unsure:

About the GP tank provided in the earlier shipments:

How do I know if I got the GP tank or the newer one? I don't know which one I got since I don't know how they are supposed to look.

And how do I know if I got the new and improved version of the hull or the older one? Is there any way of telling, just by looking at the hull?

I bought my TS2 about a week ago, so it's most likely I got the new hull with the new tank, right? How long ago was it the new improved hull started shipping? And when was the GP tank replaced with the other (newer?) one?

With the manual, I got the tech note on a seperate sheet of paper. But the corresponding original page in the manual has the same sizes for the drill holes, the page in the manual and the manual update sheet is exactly the same (except from the "MANUAL UPDATE" headline)

I guess Aquacraft have changed the drillhole sizes to the correct size in the original manual also....?

I know this is a lot of questions, but please feel free to answer as many of them as you guys like. Any help at all would be appreciated.

Oh yeah, Mak and Pulsetech... I really feel sorry for you guys about having so much trouble with your TS2s. I certainly hope I don't have to go through all those problems. And I sure hope everything works out for you guys.

If anyone is interested, I'll post some info about how my boat's running as soon as it made it into the water .... .. .

Thanks in advance for all your help.

Thomas

 

[Ronald van Essen]

Hi Thomas,

Nice of you to introduce yourself a little. What part of Sweden are you from?

A couple of things:

-headshim: if you take off the cooling head there is a very thin piece of round circle metal, that you can take out, the head shim.

-running in new engines: rich, thats the keyword. Do not lean it to early or too much. If you have a course, one way half throttle, the other way full. Probably a 2 litres is fine for running in

-cooling nipples. There is no particular in or out. Some engines or guys make sure that they can see the water is coming out, by having one nipple pointing up or even adding a smaal tube.

- as for salt water, well lots of cleaning I guess. It will start too corrode in a short time. If at all possible try to run it only in fresh water. You have lots of both in Sweden, I know.

-props, there is difference in the 2 or 3 blade, if you try the 440 its always good to startwith that one, since it will bite also on launching the boat. If you want and try the 3 blade, I guess its better to take the 437. The 440/3 might be too big for the engine. As for props some boats only like one prop, but for many tunnels the 1440 pitched and cupped will give some extra km/hr, more topspeed. Depends on what you want.

-oiler. Well you have too lubricate the flexshaft. There are a couple of oiler systems on the market that you can fill with lubricant for the race. It uses gravity toogrease the shaft.

Well so far some aswers to your questions. I am sure the real pro's will add some more.

onald.

 

[Jerry Dunlap]

The boat you have is most one of the latest ones that is built a bit heavier than the original TS2. That should also mean you have the latest fuel tank.

Check the Tech Notes on the AquaCraft website for the correct drill size.

I hope you enjoy your TS2.

JD

 

[Nitrolizer]

Hi Thomas,

Nice of you to introduce yourself a little. What part of Sweden are you from?

A couple of things:

-headshim: if you take off the cooling head there is a very thin piece of round circle metal, that you can take out, the head shim.

-running in new engines: rich, thats the keyword. Do not lean it to early or too much. If you have a course, one way half throttle, the other way full. Probably a 2 litres is fine for running in

-cooling nipples. There is no particular in or out. Some engines or guys make sure that they can see the water is coming out, by having one nipple pointing up or even adding a smaal tube.

- as for salt water, well lots of cleaning I guess. It will start too corrode in a short time. If at all possible try to run it only in fresh water. You have lots of both in Sweden, I know.

-props, there is difference in the 2 or 3 blade, if you try the 440 its always good to startwith that one, since it will bite also on launching the boat. If you want and try the 3 blade, I guess its better to take the 437. The 440/3 might be too big for the engine. As for props some boats only like one prop, but for many tunnels the 1440 pitched and cupped will give some extra km/hr, more topspeed. Depends on what you want.

-oiler. Well you have too lubricate the flexshaft. There are a couple of oiler systems on the market that you can fill with lubricant for the race. It uses gravity toogrease the shaft.

Well so far some aswers to your questions. I am sure the real pro's will add some more.

onald.

Ronald,

Lot of thx for your reply.

I am from the outskirts of Stockholm, which is the capital of Sweden. I just took the train in to town and bought the TS2 in one of the two hobbyshops you can find in Stockholm. Good thing I didn't need to order the TS2 from the US or something... Shipping would probably have cost a lot. :unsure:

Ok, so THATS the shim. Thx! But how could just removing the shim affect the engines performance? Doesn't the shim act as a gasket, preventing leakage in the engine? Is it really safe to remove it?

(Sorry for asking so many noob questions)

Yeah, running it rich is the key when running in plane and car engines also, so I'm used to that part.

I will not be running a course for the first testruns, but you're saying about 50% running time on half throttle and 50% on full throttle should work fine when running in? Ok, got it! I'll keep that in mind.

Do you usually pull the shim right away on a brand new engine, or do you wait until after the break-in?

What about the halt of oil in the fuel? Should there be more % of oil in the fuel during the break-in to provide more lubrication? Or is a standard oil mixture fine?

Will I see any difference in the performance that could act as a sign which tells me that the break-in is starting to get completed? Or is it more just about guessing, like "That's the 5th tank emptied, it should be broken in now, let's try to lean it and see what happens."?

Yes, we have both salt and fresh waters here. But I live about 1 km (1000 meters, maybe 1200 tops) from a shore, so I'm gonna run my boat there to start with. I can be there in approx. 20 mins or less if I walk there in normal tempo, which is very convenient. B) When I reach the water, it's a beach there with swimmers sometimes in the water, but it I continue futher I reach a glade with no people nearby, which really provides a great launching point. There is even a kind of wooden watchtower there, where you can get a great overview of the water once the boat is launched. The only problem is... it's salt water. :unsure:

I always use the shower at home after a run with a boat to wash away the salt/fresh water off of the hull anyway... But that won't clean the inside of the water cooling system. I guess I'll have to force some water into the water cooling head of the engine somehow to make the salt come out... An engine with a corroded cooling head is not what I wish for.... .. <_<

440 2-blade version and the 437 are the ones I will start out with then for my initial setup. Thanks.

Which props would you say works best on your TS2? The ones you suggested? Any other props you managed to get good runs with?

Bite on launching: You mean, on some props it's very common that they start to cavitate a few secs after reaching the water?

If I was to use an oiling system, would that mean I need to have an extra little tank in the boat for the oil supply?

Thanks for helping me out.

Thomas

 

[Nitrolizer]

The boat you have is most one of the latest ones that is built a bit heavier than the original TS2. That should also mean you have the latest fuel tank.

Check the Tech Notes on the AquaCraft website for the correct drill size.

I hope you enjoy your TS2.

JD

Thanks Jerry!

Don't worry, I will be sure to double-check the size of the drill holes when it comes to mounting the engine

Maybe you could tell me if the hull needs to be prepared with nitro-block or something similar? I don't know about fiberglass hulls, maybe they don't need to be prepared with fuel resistant spray? Or maybe the yellow finish on the hull is fuel resistant?

I'm also a little curious about the radio box...

The manual says on page 9: "Do NOT permanently attach the radio box to the hull as you will need to remove it from time to time."

In what situation would it be convenient to be able to pull out the whole radio box? Do you glue the radio box in your boats?

Sorry to hear about your 'RX not on'-crash.

One thing that struck my mind was... Since you're the designer of this cool boat, don't you get a major discount on new hulls from Aquacraft? There is already a great price on the hull as is, and thinking that you would get it even cheaper... Is it even worth the effort to fix a crashed hull when you could get a new one almost for free?

The repair looks really good though, I can't even see any sign of the repairs. It's the red boat with "180" on it, right?

Don't you worry, I'm sure I will enjoy this boat very much, I don't doubt that for a second! B)

 

[BigRed]

Hi thomas...

Just to add a little more info... The designer of the boat recomends the Octura M440 2 blade prop so that one will be a great start on the boat... Remember to sharpen and balance the prop... very important otherwise the vibration will wear out the prop shaft...

Salt water... I guess it will be ok if you take the engine apart after running it... keep in mind that the salt water not only goes into the cooling head but also inside the lower unit where the flex shaft is and prop shaft etc... a rusted flexshaft will most likely break...

Oiler as I've seen on pics is a little 2oz bottle that is held up next to the engine that has a tube connecting to the little hole the lower unit has to grease the flex shaft... this will be oiling the shaft as it's running... Some people use that... other people like myself just get a grease gun and I lube up the shaft before every run... On the OS engine the mufler is also conected to the prop shaft and that will also push some oil that is left behind from the burning nitro into the shaft to lube it... but I guess having more lube there never hurts...

THe break in is no different from cars I would say... make sure you run rich don't overheat your engine and lean little by little.. I would suggest breaking in with the shim on to not have too much compression.. since the engine is new you will have plenty of that plus running rich may give you problems to turn that flywheel to start it.. Oh yeah the Shim!!

The Shim... This washer not only acts as a gasket but more as a spacer... this separates the head button (where the glowplug is) from the top of the piston... so if you get your piston going closer there creates more compresion and more power.. Not sure what's the exact clearence you get removing the shim but everyone does it on this OS engine so it should be just fine..

Radio box I attached to the hull with a little silicon on the corners to make sure it stays there... that will be just fine... One thing what you may want to make sure is that the buttom of the hull is flat... there's alot of info on that on another thread..

http://www.intlwaters.com/index.php?showtopic=15944&st=45

Hope this helps you... people here are great so don't hesitate to ask..

Javier

 

[Nitrolizer]

Anyone...

Take a fast look at this pic. This is the tank I got with the boat. It looks like the newer tank and not the GP planes tank, right?

Plz verify...

(Btw, it's written "260 c.c." on one of the sides, don't know if that helps... Same size for both tanks?)

Thx

Thomas

 

[BigRed]

Anyone...

Take a fast look at this pic. This is the tank I got with the boat. It looks like the newer tank and not the GP planes tank, right?

Plz verify...

(Btw, it's written "260 c.c." on one of the sides, don't know if that helps... Same size for both tanks?)

Thx

Thomas

View attachment 5397

Yeap that's the new tank

 

[Nitrolizer]

BigRed / Javier,

Thank you for your reply, it contained a lot of useful information for me.

As for balancing and sharpening, the only problem is I've never done it before. My 1st nitro boat I had was more like a toy, it had a plastic prop with only an .16 inboard engine and didn't go fast at all. :lol:

It seems to be a lot more to it when it comes to these faster boats. Looks like I have much to learn.... Thank god for internet and community forums

I will ask the guys at my boat club if they can help me balance and sharpen some props for me, so I'll get a good idea of how it should be done.

Take apart the engine after every run in the sea?? Oh well, I guess I have no choice if I don't want a rusted flexshaft But hey, guess that's part of the sport, right?

Oiler sounds like something I could wait with a little, at least until I've completed the break-in and got a good setup on the boat.

You don't really have to use an oiler system if you don't want to, do you? It won't hurt the engine if I just mount it on the boat and then fire it up, breaking it in when it's completely stock? (which means no extra oiler)

"....conected to the prop shaft and that will also push some oil that is left behind..."

So what you're saying is that the OS engines have a very good self-lubricating system without any additional oils? Cool! The TT and K&B are not as good at this as the OS?

I will look into the whole oiling thing a little more later, right now my main goal is just to get it into the water, then try to do a decent break-in and manage to get a good setup.

Maybe I will get back to you with some more questions about oiling systems a little later if that's OK

Thanks, I think I got a good clue now on how to break in the engine properly. I will leave the shim on during the break-in period, and maybe start experiment with removing it later.

That was a very good explaination, I can see now how removing the shim can affect the performance.

But wouldn't not using the glowplug washer give the same effect? (The glowplug then going lower, coming closer to the piston)

I hope there is a standard length on all glowplugs regardless of manufactors. Otherwise, if I buy a glow plug that goes pretty low maybe there would be a risk it hits the piston with the shim removed... But if a lot of ppl have removed the shim without problems then I guess I have nothing to worry about.

Thanks for the advice, I will try to take a look at the bottom of the sponsons, and all other parts of the hull for that manner, to check that everything is in order. I'll take a look on that thread too.

Lot of thx

Thomas

 

[BigRed]

I'm glad the info helped you...

On the engine shim and the lenght of the glow plug I believe it's been run with a long reach plug like the Mcoy59 or the KB-1L with the shim removed and keeping the plug washer... Keep in mind that when you remove the shim yo make the whole head button further into the sleve not just the plug...

I'm not very familiar with any other engine than the TT since that's what I got and I'm also very new at this... I have gather lots of info from this forum and I'm sure you will too...

On the prop balancing if there's a boat club that's great... that way you get the explanation right there and also see how to use a prop balancer... key is for the prop to be in perfect symetry along with both blades the same weight and... well in this website you can read all you need to know about balancing and a bit more...

http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/prop_balance.htm

 

[Jerry Dunlap]

re: removing the head shim

Doing this decreased the head clearence and can provide more power. I would suggest you run at least a 1/2 gallon(or whatever that amounts to in liters) through the engine before removing the head shim.

re: fuel proof

You don't need to apply any sealer to the boat. The paint is fuel proof to at least 65% nitro - the the highest nitro I've spilled on one of my boats. Just clean up the boat after you are done running for the day.

JD

 

[Nitrolizer]

Javier,

Ok, I'll be better off not experimenting with removing the glow plug washer. I don't want to endanger my engine in any way since that's the most expensive part of the boat.

But removing the shim... Since that has been throuly tested I guess I could always try that after the break-in. And besides, like you said... Removing the shim lowers the whole head, but removing the plug washer wouldn't. I guess taking away the plug washer wouldn't give any effect. It will probably just do more damage than good. I'll leave it on.

No problem, I'm very grateful for the info you already given me, and the info you probably will give me in the future. Thanks.

For how long have you had your TS2 along with your TT? Do you have the improved hull? Did you have to spend a lot of time testing different setups before you found the right settings for your boat?

Yes, we have a boat club here which I recently joined. I will try to contact the person in charge of the club and ask if he thinks anyone at the club might be able to help me with the balancing procedure. I'll buy an X440 and maybe an X437/3 prop and bring them to the club. Maybe I'll also buy a balancer while I'm at it... I'm not shore the hobbyshops here in Stockholm has the M440 in stock, I will check it out. X440 and M440 definitely sounds like the two best props to start out with, so if I only can get my hands on them, I'll start out with those.

Yikes, that website contained a lot of info about balancing. Cool! But I'm not sure I understand everything of what that guy is talking about. But that's probably just because I'm new to this, it will hopefully make more sense to me eventually

Jerry,

Thanks man, just what I needed to know. Especially the part about the fuel-resistant paint.

Thx all for being so helpful

Thomas

 

[BigRed]

Well I'm fairly new to the hobby... I bought the TS2 back in May.. with the TT... my very first boat... I've been into Nitro Touring for about 4 years already but 0 experience in RC boats... just some experience from real boats..

Getting the right setup... well I'm still working on that By human nature you always want to be better and better... so I had my boat running the Prather 215 that came with the TT engine and I got that working kinda good... Now I'm using a X640 and the speed is awesome but the boat is blowing over... So I need to start setting up for that prop now...

One issue I did encounter at the begining was the buttom of the sponsons... they were not completely flat and that caused some very bad bouncing... you may want to check on them before mounting the engine... it will be easier to sand, handle and check on flat surfaces...

 

[topfuel443]

Man.... sounds like you guys are on top of it.

Just one point to make, on the oiler system... If you are going to run the OS in stock configuration (no pipe), then you dont need an oiler system. OS has designed the muffler to allow the unburned, fuel/oil to drain down into the lower unit so it automatically lubes the flex shaft and prop shaft bushing. If you keep the shaft rust free, it will last quite a while using the stock system. No other engine has this integrated system, so that is why guys use oilers. Here is a photo of my old oiler system that I used on my .45 tunnel ( I had the same setup on my .21 mod boat also)

~James

https://www.intlwaters.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=5&pos=2

There are a few more photos of it in my album as well.

 

[Nitrolizer]

Javier, sounds like you have learned a lot about RC boating in a short period of time. Good work, man!

Are you using a pipe with your TT? Is the engine stock? What other modifications have you made? You must have pretty good Top Speed ( ) on your boat if you get it to blow over.

I'm only a beginner, but what about trying a little more neg thrust to keep the bow lower to the water surface?

If you feel like it, please tell me of the results when you've done some more testing. I would be happy to hear about what setups you got working the best with the X640.

Yep, I will try to check the hull & sponsons before I mount the engine. How did you manage to get your sponsons completely flat? Did you use sanding paper? Wouldn't sanding on a yellow hull remove the finish, so it's not yellow anymore on the treated area?

Topfuel,

Sounds great that I don't have to use any separate oiling system on the OS engine. But the guys who are running TTs or K&Bs are often using oiling systems? I mean, even though they are running stock?

When running OS, even though it has this integrated lubrication system, it wouldn't hurt to manually lube the flexshaft just a little bit before a run, right?

Thx guys

Thomas

 

[Tim_Duggan]

FYI, The stock TT also has an oiling system from the muffler to the propshaft.

Also - the best stock prop I've tried on the stock OS /TS2 is the ABC 40x53 B)

Tim.

 

[BigRed]

Yep the TT also has a built in oiler system similar to the OS... It's just not obvious since the muffler is part of the lower unit housing but there is a little channel from inside the muffler down to the propshaft and from there it goes to the flexshaft also..

I'm still running the stock muffler but I still lube it at the top where the gears are... the TT uses a set of gears.. the OS and KB don't if I'm not mistaken... I also believe that the OS engine turns clockwise where all car engines I've seen and the TT turn counter...

The only mod my engine has is a reduced head buttom courtesy of Jerry Wyss (thanks alot!)... After removing the shim on the TT there's still plenty of clearance so some material is removed from the head so it get's even closer to the piston... Jerry prepared the head... He knows a lot about TT engines..

I believe the boat is running fairly good for not having a pipe yet.. The main reason of it blowing over I believe is the lack of weight on the nose.. with the previous P215 prop I had best results with almost no weight on the nose but that took me away from a optimal hull balance which I think it's near 30%

When I got the x640 I just putted it on and tried and was running very nose up.. so I brought it and did about 2 deg neg and still blew over so I need the weight back...

If you go to http://video.google.com and search for TS2 there will be a couple of videos of my boat and evolution from running in till my first run with the x640...

Almost forgot... when sanding the running surface you should focus most on the back part that is mostly on the water... get a hard flat surface like a piece of wood and glue some 400-600 sanding paper to get it even... now there's some tricky parts on the TS2 buttom since there is a section that is slightly arched... make sure to gather lot's on info about what needs to be done before you do it... on the thread that said TS2 Possible hull problem there is alot of info on how to and pictures also.. and if you sand a little it will still be yellow.. then it goes white and if you have to go further I guess you will see the fiberglass.. Mine is mostly yellow and white in some small areas..

 

[Nitrolizer]

Tim, I will try that prop if I can get my hands on it, thanks.

Javier,

Very nice videos, thanks for sharing them with us. On some of the clips I would say you got it running pretty good, nice work Maybe just some minor adjustments and I believe you will have it running just perfect.

The sanding you did, was that on the old hull or the new replacement hull?

I have finally started the assembly needed on my TS2. But I couldn't find any lead weights in the package, do you have to buy them seperately? Where can I find them, do the hobby shops usally have them?

Also, how do I attach the weights in the weight slot underneith the front of the cowling? Am I supposed to glue them to place? What if I would like to try and run the boat with less weight in the weight slot, then how do I remove the lead weights if they are glued into place?

 

[Tim_Duggan]

Go to an automotive wheel and tyre place and ask for the stick on lead weights used for balancing alloy wheels. They have a double sided tape applied to them so you just peel and stick.