the 80s, 90s and today

[Marty Davis]

The big difference I see between the 70's-80's and now is choices of classes. Back in the day you ran 20-40-60 mono or hydro and maybe a scale. OB's were kind of tollerated. Now the dam has burst and the choices allow many new racers an opportunity to race. This hobby is still growing and evolving. FE & Gas are on move. Nitro won't die but may have to regroup and specialise races and classes to survive. If your willing to adapt and make changes the future is bright. The internet has accelerated everyones learning curve. Equipment is far superior today and that is also due in part to the internet and knowledged shared.

Races are going from small club get togethers to major events. Better competition for sure or at least more of it. Only drawback is the best competators are spread out further with too many choices.

Mic

I agree, WAY TO MANY CLASSES....

 

[Don Ferrette]

Because of cost (initial and continuing) the Gas boats have taken over. Breaks my heart, but that is just the way it is. With a new Nitro engine costing $400+/- and a new Gas engine costing much less, it is easy for people to choose gas.

And that is the single biggest fallacy with gas boats, they're not any cheaper. I've run them off and on for a long time along with my nitro stuff and they are just as if not more expensive to build and no cheaper to maintain and quite often more. Unless you are satisfied with running 45mph in a "stocker" class a modified race ready gas motor will cost you $600+ and $60 for a motor mount. Another $150-$200 for the latest and greatest tuned pipe, $100 for a no leak exhaust manifold and stainless header and you have spent almost $1000 and don't even have a hull yet. Granted there are some good wood "kits" out there but by far most buy fiberglass hulls that can easily run $400 and up because of their size. Prepped gas props are way more expensive than nitro ones, some hardware is as well ("stinger" drives on monos for example). The only thing "cheaper" is the gas and even that gets pricey when you start mixing AV gas with Coleman camp fuel and custom oils which people are doing. Then there's maintenance..... dunk a gasser running and you can easily trash a motor, from bending a crank to blowing the cylinder clean off of it. I've stuffed nitro boats at full song, blown the water out and kept running, you will not get away with that with a gas motor. Not to mention full on board ignition systems with 2 coils and a very complex carb with multiple metering circuits makes troubleshooting one not running right a nightmare sometimes. Now this is absolutely in no way meant to bash gas as like I said I run them both and have for quite a while but rather just a reality check, the "gas is cheaper" only applies to what goes in the tank and the "gas is easier" part really isn't all that accurate especially when they don't run right ............. been there, done that.

 

[Charles Perdue]

The big difference I see between the 70's-80's and now is choices of classes. Back in the day you ran 20-40-60 mono or hydro and maybe a scale. OB's were kind of tollerated. Now the dam has burst and the choices allow many new racers an opportunity to race. This hobby is still growing and evolving. FE & Gas are on move. Nitro won't die but may have to regroup and specialise races and classes to survive. If your willing to adapt and make changes the future is bright. The internet has accelerated everyones learning curve. Equipment is far superior today and that is also due in part to the internet and knowledged shared.

Races are going from small club get togethers to major events. Better competition for sure or at least more of it. Only drawback is the best competators are spread out further with too many choices.

Mic

I agree, WAY TO MANY CLASSES....

I totally agree, TO MANY CLASSES.

Trying to accommodate everyone by giving every boater his own class, diluting the major classes until there is barely enough boats to make a class, has hurt model boating more than the economy or any other single thing that has happened to this sport.

Until this changes, nothing you can do will change the downhill slide that this hobby is going through.

Charles

 

[Piston1]

Because of cost (initial and continuing) the Gas boats have taken over. Breaks my heart, but that is just the way it is. With a new Nitro engine costing $400+/- and a new Gas engine costing much less, it is easy for people to choose gas.

And that is the single biggest fallacy with gas boats, they're not any cheaper. I've run them off and on for a long time along with my nitro stuff and they are just as if not more expensive to build and no cheaper to maintain and quite often more. Unless you are satisfied with running 45mph in a "stocker" class a modified race ready gas motor will cost you $600+ and $60 for a motor mount. Another $150-$200 for the latest and greatest tuned pipe, $100 for a no leak exhaust manifold and stainless header and you have spent almost $1000 and don't even have a hull yet. Granted there are some good wood "kits" out there but by far most buy fiberglass hulls that can easily run $400 and up because of their size. Prepped gas props are way more expensive than nitro ones, some hardware is as well ("stinger" drives on monos for example). The only thing "cheaper" is the gas and even that gets pricey when you start mixing AV gas with Coleman camp fuel and custom oils which people are doing. Then there's maintenance..... dunk a gasser running and you can easily trash a motor, from bending a crank to blowing the cylinder clean off of it. I've stuffed nitro boats at full song, blown the water out and kept running, you will not get away with that with a gas motor. Not to mention full on board ignition systems with 2 coils and a very complex carb with multiple metering circuits makes troubleshooting one not running right a nightmare sometimes. Now this is absolutely in no way meant to bash gas as like I said I run them both and have for quite a while but rather just a reality check, the "gas is cheaper" only applies to what goes in the tank and the "gas is easier" part really isn't all that accurate especially when they don't run right ............. been there, done that.

I agree. Good post. I run them both too.

 

[JKramer]

What I find odd is the fact that people today talk about the far superior equipment we have now but records set twenty years ago still stand. Are we learning anything or just recycling the old knowledge over the internet????

 

[Tom Foley]

What I find odd is the fact that people today talk about the far superior equipment of twenty years ago and if you look at the records several go back to 1990. Are we learning anything?

The engines are better for sure , the boats for sure , radios for sure , props for the mainstream WAY better . Somehow i still manged to blow up a CMB 90 two weeks ago due to being in a rush !!

 

[Ron Olson]

OK, all of us old farts are checking in! Who remembers using a rawhide shoe lace to start their engines?

The early .21 OB tunnels were amusing to watch as most would end up on their top. The Dumas Hot Shot, Midwest Products Klamop Kai and the Hughey were the main ones up here. Speaking of Hughey, the .21 'rigger that he made is one of the boats that I said that "I gotta get me one of them!" The K&B's were the workhorses of the day, not really that fast but they were reliable.

In the late `70's and early `80's the 100 MPH barrier we thought was unattainable but a few were getting close as a few passes were made around 94-96 MPH.

Andy, remember a guy from Vero Beach named Jim Wilson? That guy built some beautiful 'riggers. I think that he hung out with the Culvert Dodgers. He summered up here in Paw Paw then snowbirded south for the winter.

 

[Norm Doerr]

What I find odd is the fact that people today talk about the far superior equipment we have now but records set twenty years ago still stand. Are we learning anything or just recycling the old knowledge over the internet????

We are still running the primitive fuel systems we were back when I first got an interest in this hobby in the mid 70s.

 

[Chris Wood]

ron jim wilson still runs to this day but i don't think he gets on here much if at all

chris

 

[Ron Olson]

Chris, that's a different Jim Wilson as this one passed away a few years ago. He was a retiree back in 1980 so if he were still alive he'd have to be close to 90 or more.

 

[Charles Perdue]

ron jim wilson still runs to this day but i don't think he gets on here much if at all

chris

Mr. Jim Wilson lives in Fresno, CA, still runs boats and is now in the NAMBA Hall Of Fame.

 

[DON MAHER]

When I started boating in NAMBA there were 4 hydro classes & 4 mono classes only, no sport or tunnel or cat or outboard not even scale.SO LONG AGO Rope starting was the only way known. The only manufactuer I can remember was Marine Specilites. Flyweels,water cooled heads & exhause systems were all custom made by yourself or someone you knew. Times have changed!

Don

 

[Bill Gibson]

A question for the "veteran" model boaters/racers....what differences do you see in the hobby from the early 80s to today.....i remember good turnouts, hardly any enclosed trailers, less classes, way more entries per class...at the'85 Winternatnats i ran in 40 outboard tunnel and i believe there were about 20 boats in the class and that was low compared to other more established classes...boats seemed cheaper, engines too....i did say seemed! I could be VERY wrong about that! :lol:

You were newer to it then as was I . Ignorance is bliss . Basically we ran junk , boats were heavy and slow with the exception of a few FAST guys . motors blew up all the time , your K / B stuff although new to you then and cherished ...was... and is JUNK compared to the power and reliability of todays motors . You personally own some of the trickest state of the art boats out there , but pining about yesterday is a waste of time and should be saved for BS sessions after the days run with your new and VERY fast boats . I need to get out more myself but model boats is only part of the equation for me ..but when you get in the zone with your Macs , Piccos , CMB's or Zenoahs thats all that matters . Looking forward to getting IN THE ZONE for 4 days in Charleston ...gonna be a barnburner .

Hydro Junkie ...in 82 there were many other kits than trhe Pay N Pack ...i started boating in 1981 with a Drag N Fly 40 with HB 61 Side exhaust and went to my first race in 82 in Hagerstown Maryland ...been in it pretty solid since then .

NOT SO FAST THERE MY BROTHA BOATA....I Started runnin boats in the year NINETEEN HUNDRED AND SEVENTY-NINE....Dumas Hot Shot/exhauxt throttled K&B short skeg O.B... I was runnin 20 hydro in 1980,and while i had my share of slow boats, my 40 Tunnel with an Equalizer pipe was competitive with any 40 Tunnel in the state back in the day and i dont even know why....and i ran the CRAP of those boats....never had an engine failure! But i do ABSOLUTLY agree with you that the equipment today is far better....i still feel that proper care and maintenance makes ALL the difference in the world...even back then. And there were alot of boat kits available....i seemed to remember having a 1980/81 Tower Hobbies catalog that offered not only Steve Muck hulls, But CRAPSHOOTER hydros! The first 20 hydro i built and raced i purchased from Don Pinkert for a WHOPPING 57.00, and it was a very nice kit! I do love the new stuff and you are 100% right about how much better it is than what we used to run...but i had such a good time back then....the last several years have been a blast for me thanks to people like yourself, Marty, And SEVERAL others who have helped me step up despite myself, but it has always been and will always be just a hobby for me.....THOUGH IT IS ONE HELL OF ALOT OF FUN ON THE RARE OCCASION (i said rare)TO KICK ASS! :lol: :lol:

 

[Andy Brown]

OK, all of us old farts are checking in! Who remembers using a rawhide shoe lace to start their engines?

The early .21 OB tunnels were amusing to watch as most would end up on their top. The Dumas Hot Shot, Midwest Products Klamop Kai and the Hughey were the main ones up here. Speaking of Hughey, the .21 'rigger that he made is one of the boats that I said that "I gotta get me one of them!" The K&B's were the workhorses of the day, not really that fast but they were reliable.

In the late `70's and early `80's the 100 MPH barrier we thought was unattainable but a few were getting close as a few passes were made around 94-96 MPH.

Andy, remember a guy from Vero Beach named Jim Wilson? That guy built some beautiful 'riggers. I think that he hung out with the Culvert Dodgers. He summered up here in Paw Paw then snowbirded south for the winter.

Yes Ron! I remember Jim Wilson well. His riggers had real short front sponsons. A great guy a good boater.

He is a different Jim Wilson than the Jim that is a long time great boat racer in Northern California.

 

[Andy Brown]

What I find odd is the fact that people today talk about the far superior equipment we have now but records set twenty years ago still stand. Are we learning anything or just recycling the old knowledge over the internet????

Hmmmm.....I suppose there may be an odd record that is 20 years old, but most current records are WAY faster than the records from 20 years ago.

AND if you are speaking of records that were canceled out when IMPBA adopted automatic timing equipment in the early 1980's, the current records are much faster than those. Ed Baker had the fastest SAW records with the old timing system around 96 mph circa the late 1970's. That system was manually operated and had room for human ERROR.

The fastest IMPBA oval time for F hydro in 1985 was about 22 seconds. I think 21 mono is not far from that today.

 

[Tom Foley]

[We are still running the primitive fuel systems we were back when I first got an interest in this hobby in the mid 70s.

They work pretty good don't they !!

 

[RaceCraftBearings]

[We are still running the primitive fuel systems we were back when I first got an interest in this hobby in the mid 70s.

They work pretty good don't they !!

Norm we are waiting for you to develope our next fuel delivery system!

Saw a post mentioning Marine Specialties wow that was back in the day, I used them alot back then. First boat I had was the Dumas Hot Shot with a K&B and I built a Mono which I believe they called the Skeeter if I remember right? Also built an Airboat from scratch and put twin motors on it back to back one with a pusher and the other a puller prop that thing was almost unstaoppable. The first radio I had was a Cox/Sanwa :blink:

 

[carlnoki]

One place that comes to mind that i used to order from was The Pipe Line

out in CA. Oh, and lets not forget International Products Tuned pipes and water cooled head assemblies.

There were boats from JVS, Water Spider, Avenger, Witch Craft, Formula VX,

ect, ect.

Carl

 

[JS_Racing]

Hey Marty,

You are absolutely correct - the Indy Masters was always one of the best races in the season! The best part of the competition was the qualifying and re-qualifying - it really kept you on your toes

Steve Pas

Back in those days we put only a few races on the top of the list to attend.

The Nats, The Indy Unlimited and my favorite by far, The Indy Masters.

Andy and John came every year and it was the most competitive race ever. The A Mains were AWESOME.

The Nats had usually 25-40 boats in your hydro class. 20 Mono usually had 25+, 1/8 scale had 20-25+

Because of cost (initial and continuing) the Gas boats have taken over. Breaks my heart, but that is just the way it is. With a new Nitro engine costing $400+/- and a new Gas enging costing much less, it is easy for people to choose gas.

Maybe something will change all of this, we will see. Glenn has contributed some to the increase in 20 hydro with the cheap 5 port engines and that is very good. Someone will pobably come up with a solution to spur the rebirth of the Nitro Classes - I hope.

Within the next couple years, I hope to see our Tampa Mobel Boat Club come up with some specialty races that should help to spur interest down here. Maybe even an IMPBA Nats in the future. We sure have a great new pond to host almost any type race.

Maybe we can even get John and Andy to make the drive down I-75 and race with us.

I remember the Naples/Ft Myers Club hosting a Thanksgiving Race in Ft Myers. Maybe the Northern People would like a break from the cold around Thanksgiving. I always loved coming to that race.

 

[Norm Doerr]

[We are still running the primitive fuel systems we were back when I first got an interest in this hobby in the mid 70s.

They work pretty good don't they !!

Pretty Good is NOT the best it could be.. Holly carbs work pretty good, but they don't provide a perfect fuel map across the board. Production Automobiles don't run carbs any longer. There is no big return on the time and money invested to develop a good fuel system for little boat engines so no one has gone down that path .....yet.