Seaducer 33" with Neu Motor

[RaceMechaniX]

Hey Guys,

I am thinking about building a 33" SD3 FE mono with a 4S2P Lipo set-up. I will use a Neu 1500 series motor and probbaly a CC Hydra 120 controller. I am somewhat familar with how to pick a motor for a electric heli, but what should I look for to run in a boat? Considering I will not run more than a 4S, do I pick a wind combination that will get me close to the max 60k RPM? And what motor power to go with (i.e. length of motor within the 15xx series)? Seems like the 1509/1.5D or perhaps a 1512/1.5D would be a strong combo.

Who makes the 5mm shaft to 3/16" collet drives for these types of motors.

Thanks

Tyler

 

[Darin Jordan]

Hey Guys,
I am thinking about building a 33" SD3 FE mono with a 4S2P Lipo set-up. I will use a Neu 1500 series motor and probbaly a CC Hydra 120 controller. I am somewhat familar with how to pick a motor for a electric heli, but what should I look for to run in a boat? Considering I will not run more than a 4S, do I pick a wind combination that will get me close to the max 60k RPM? And what motor power to go with (i.e. length of motor within the 15xx series)? Seems like the 1509/1.5D or perhaps a 1512/1.5D would be a strong combo.

Who makes the 5mm shaft to 3/16" collet drives for these types of motors.

Thanks

Tyler

TORQUE and IRON content...

Tried and true combos for this type/size of hullwould be a Neu 1515 1Y (2200KV), or a 1521 1.5D (1800KV)... I think you'll be OK with they Hydra 120 if you stay on the "safe" prop size... These are race-proven motors for this sized hull and are well suited to the task... I'd opt for the 1521...

The 1509 and 1512 would be a little on the small size an wouldn't have the torque... The KV is quite a bit too high on the motors you mention as well... and they'd get pretty hot... You're looking at about 16.8V when the batteries are fully charged... the 1515 1.5D (3200KV) would give you about 53,000RPM! :blink:

A totally rocking combo is the Delta Force 33" hull, Neu 1521 1.5D, Hydra 240, and an X450/3 prop... I would think a Seducer would work simliliarly... We have three of these in our club and they are beasts... and they haven't even totally tapped their potential yet...

Good LUCK! B)

 

[jimi911]

I run the 33" SDS on 4s2p. Great running boat. If you are running a 1515 1Y a Hydra 120 would be fine. The 1521 1.5D is an amp hog. I'd drop a 200+a esc in it to be safe if you plan on pushing it with that motor. The 1515 1Y would be a really good choice for a sport setup ... the 1521 is unholy fast if unleashed. I haven't hit the limit with that motor yet ... not even close.

 

[Darin Jordan]

I run the 33" SDS on 4s2p. Great running boat. If you are running a 1515 1Y a Hydra 120 would be fine. The 1521 1.5D is an amp hog. I'd drop a 200+a esc in it to be safe if you plan on pushing it with that motor.

I agree completely... A Hydra 240 is a safe bet... BUT, for the record... Greg Schweers has been running a 1521 1.5D in a 33" Delta Force all season... pushing X450/3 props and the like, using a Hydra 120esc... I think he finally damaged the ESC the last time out, but we think it was actually a matter of using the BEC feature on 4S2P, rather than actually over-amping the system...

My preference would be to spend the extra $$ on the Hydra 240... it's worth the piece of mind, and gives you room for growth!

Jim... I'll PM you with my latest P-Mono plans... Make sure you are sitting down when you read it...

 

[RaceMechaniX]

I run the 33" SDS on 4s2p. Great running boat. If you are running a 1515 1Y a Hydra 120 would be fine. The 1521 1.5D is an amp hog. I'd drop a 200+a esc in it to be safe if you plan on pushing it with that motor.

I agree completely... A Hydra 240 is a safe bet... BUT, for the record... Greg Schweers has been running a 1521 1.5D in a 33" Delta Force all season... pushing X450/3 props and the like, using a Hydra 120esc... I think he finally damaged the ESC the last time out, but we think it was actually a matter of using the BEC feature on 4S2P, rather than actually over-amping the system...

My preference would be to spend the extra $$ on the Hydra 240... it's worth the piece of mind, and gives you room for growth!

Jim... I'll PM you with my latest P-Mono plans... Make sure you are sitting down when you read it...

Thanks guys for the advice. What about the collets though. Where can I get these from?

TG

 

[Darin Jordan]

Thanks guys for the advice. What about the collets though. Where can I get these from?
TG

Oops... Sorry TG...

You can try any of the following... the part number you are looking for is ocfhe5mm187, which is the longer version 5mm x .187 Hex coupler:

Offshore Electrics => http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/products.php?cat=68

Fuller Fast Electrics => http://www.drcwebservices.com/ffe/

or

FastElectricRC.com => http://www.buyfastelectricrc.com/

All of these are also Neu dealers...

 

[RaceMechaniX]

Thanks Darian for the links,

What would be a reasaonable size pack(s) to run with? 2x-3700's, 2x-4350's or 2x-4900's

I know there is a trade-off in weight.

TG

 

[Darin Jordan]

Thanks Darian for the links,
What would be a reasaonable size pack(s) to run with? 2x-3700's, 2x-4350's or 2x-4900's

I know there is a trade-off in weight.

TG

There is also a trade-off in available amp draw... Basically, the higher the mah, the more amps you can safely draw, and the easier it is on packs...

I'd run 2x4350 minimum, and preferably 2x4900... Believe me... with this package... Weight is NOT your enemy... I'd have to calclate it, but I think you could get by with the 3700s, but for the price difference, you'll be happier with the larger cells...

Here, check this out... http://www.youtube.com/PSFEMBC Look at the two videos for the P-Mono... The white boat is a 33" Delta Force, 1521, 4S2P Neu 4900s, Hydra 240... This was it's first time in the water back in June... Today... it's MUCH faster now that it's dialed in...

"Just do it!"

 

[RaceMechaniX]

Got it, I'll go with the FP 4900 EVO 25's then.

TG

 

[jimi911]

You need to ask for wider rails from Jerry when you order you Seaducer. I would go for 4.5" so the lipos can fit between the rails. This is very important as the height of the 4s packs makes fitting them REALLY tight to the outside of the rails. I run 3" rails and I can barely fit the 4s packs in there. I actually had to trim the rails to get them in. Another option is to get 4 2s packs at wire them together. This would make the fit a lot easier.

 

[raptor347]

Just my .02 here. I like the 1521/1.5d for a second reason: they can be had with 8mm shafts. Use the 8mm-.187 octura flexhex.

 

[RaceMechaniX]

Just my .02 here. I like the 1521/1.5d for a second reason: they can be had with 8mm shafts. Use the 8mm-.187 octura flexhex.

Brian,

Isn't the 5mm shaft plently strong? or is it for the bearing diameter?

You guys have any pics of the your seaducer set-ups?

Tyler

 

[Darin Jordan]

Brian,
Isn't the 5mm shaft plently strong? or is it for the bearing diameter?

You guys have any pics of the your seaducer set-ups?

Is the 33" mono too small for the 1521, shuold I go for the 45 size mono istead?

Jimi911- I would assume its better to widen the stringers so the batteries can sit closest to the centerline and deep in the V. Hence he 4.5" spacing?

Tyler

The 1521 in the 33" works great... and you will be sure to be legal under the proposed IMPBA length restrictions with that one...

The larger shaft will have less harmonic resonance under load and is just generally stronger and more balanced... This is a very powerful setup, spinning BIG wheels... This is more power than even the best 3.5cc /.21 and it's applied from the bottom right through the top of the RPM range... Errr on the side of BEEFY... Again, a little extra weight, in this case, is NOT undesirable if it's being placed in such a way as to help transmit the power and make the boat handle...

Another option on the stringers is to order them NARROW, just wide enough to place the motor between, then place the batteries just outside them... Similiar to the ones in my 25.5" Delta Force 2S2P boat. these happen to be exactly 2" apart:

 

[RaceMechaniX]

I have a 90 SD3 and have seen several nitro 20 SD3's and most admit that there is not much space on the outside of the stringers even if they were only 2" apart. Perhaps I'll ask Jerry if he leave the stringers out and I glass them in after test fitting the batteries and motor.

TG

 

[Jay Boyd]

Jerry was saying he puts the rails in when it's in the mold to maintain the hook in the bottom. I wanted mine without for the same placement issues. Jerry knows his stuff so go with whatever he says.

 

[RaceMechaniX]

Jerry was saying he puts the rails in when it's in the mold to maintain the hook in the bottom. I wanted mine without for the same placement issues. Jerry knows his stuff so go with whatever he says.

That makes sense about glassing in the stringers while the bottom is still in the mold. Would you guys recommned placing the motor closer to the rear like Darian's pic or further up front where the nitro engine normally sits? Since the batteries will sit outside the stringers, the motor placement is free.

Tyler

 

[David Kingston]

Jerry was saying he puts the rails in when it's in the mold to maintain the hook in the bottom. I wanted mine without for the same placement issues. Jerry knows his stuff so go with whatever he says.

That makes sense about glassing in the stringers while the bottom is still in the mold. Would you guys recommned placing the motor closer to the rear like Darian's pic or further up front where the nitro engine normally sits? Since the batteries will sit outside the stringers, the motor placement is free.

Tyler

Tyler,

Easiest way would be to get the boat, cells and motor and move them about till you find COG then make sure you are happy with the layout and everything is easy to get at and remove. Then install the parts from there.

I put my motor mount in my 33 mono 3inch from the transom. The batteries then are in the keel infront of that.

ESC off to the left (port) receiver and servo mount on the other side.

Will try to get a picture on here. If not i will email you.

Darian,

Can you shed some light on how you did the plugs for the 4s/2p setup?

Can each pack be seperated?

What did you use?

Do they get warm?

Thanks

David

 

[Darin Jordan]

Darian,
Can you shed some light on how you did the plugs for the 4s/2p setup?

Certainly, but first let me address the motor placement...

I used to mount my motors toward the back, but with the lighter batteries, the motor is now the heaviest portion of the boat.... So, I now get everything together and mock-assemble EVERYTHING... then I try to place the motor RIGHT ONE the CG of the hull... This way, the motor has the least effect on the overall CG, and I can balance it with the cells... I think there is something in there about roll-centers and torque centers, etc... but I just like the way the hull balances doing it this way...

Keep in mind that the picture is of a 25.5" hull, so it's considerably different in space, but the idea is the same... If Brian has a picture of his, that's what you'd want to model after... Same idea as mine, but in the larger hull... and with a MUCH tricker motor mount!! (which I'll have one of shortly for my P-Mono... )

David,

Here is a picture of the adapters I made... So far, they haven't gotten any hotter than anything else in the system... The work well, but you have to be careful that the heat shrink stays in place or you'll short out the packs, etc... These are the 6mm connectors that Neu sells for soldering directly to the ends of sub-Cs... I just soldered them together into adapters... I then use Two 2S1P packs and parallel them together for 2S2P... I also have some series adapters to turn them into 4S1P if I need to... And YES, the wires separate just like with any plug...

And here is an adapter I made to allow me to hook my cells with 6mm plugs into an ESC with Dean's on it (for my SV27, by 19T N2-Hydro, N1-Mono, LSH, etc...)... Again, you have to make **** sure the shrink is on there well, but they seem to be doing the trick... Also work GREAT for using my existing Deans equiped charger leads to charge my Lipo cells...

Hope this helps!

 

[RaceMechaniX]

Thanks Guys, several more questions:

What are good CG values to shoot for?

preferences/pros/cons for cable or wire drive?

Good distributor for Neu motors?

Tyler

 

[Darin Jordan]

Thanks Guys, several more questions:
What are good CG values to shoot for?

preferences/pros/cons for cable or wire drive?

Good distributor for Neu motors?

Tyler

CG = Depends on the hull... 30% is a good starting point... Not sure what the SD3 likes...

Wire or Cable => I'd stick with at least .187 cable (that's what I'm using...)... Wire is finicky and doesn't withstand the shocks as well... I have a wire in my 25.5" N2-Mono, and it works well, but the P-Mono is a much bigger beast...

Neu Motors: In the USA, these are the two that immediately come to mind:

Offshore Electrics

Fuller's Fast Electrics