Run in stand/dyno build.

[Wasted wages]

do you think that router is going to stayed glued together at 28k + rpm ?

 

[Brad Christy]

Frank,

My router runs at closer to 40K..... Just sayin'.

Besides, it looks like terry has planned to disengage the spin-up motor after it's gotten the flywheel up to speed.

Thanks. Brad.
Titan Racing Components
BlackJack Hydros
Model Machine and Precision LLC

 

[Steve White]

Deleted.

 

[Terry Keeley]

How do you disconnect the router? If you don't, it becomes part of the inertia wheel and adds unmeasured inertia and friction.

Lohring Miller

Yup, it's hinged and can swing up to ditch the belt, also to vary the load by hand as the wheel spins up.

That little Makita is sweet, soft start and variable speed from 10 - 30K. Our plastic sewing machine belts melt when slipped that much but an industrial "2L" holds up, although the pulley gets hot. Hope to wind it up to 10K or so before firing the motor making it easier on the clutch.

https://www.makitatools.com/products/details/RT0701C
I should know tomorrow it this is all gonna work.

 

[Wasted wages]

Frank,

My router runs at closer to 40K..... Just sayin'.

Besides, it looks like terry has planned to disengage the spin-up motor after it's gotten the flywheel up to speed.

Thanks. Brad.
Titan Racing Components
BlackJack Hydros
Model Machine and Precision LLC

Had no idea they spun that high...!

I remember seeing a Sullivan starter throw the windings out once, wasn't pretty..

 

[Brad Christy]

Had no idea they spun that high...!

I remember seeing a Sullivan starter throw the windings out once, wasn't pretty..

Frank,

Yup. they're wicked little beasts.

Thanks. Brad.
Titan Racing Components
BlackJack Hydros
Model Machine and Precision LLC

 

[LohringMiller]

I see that now. I've been starting gas engines with 2L belts for years. I doubt if that will be a problem.

Good Luck.

Lohring Miller

 

[Mike Bontoft]

I rigged a small Makita router motor to spin up the wheel, works pretty good. Humpty Dumpty's back together again.

That sure is looking sexy!

 

[Terry Keeley]

That sure is looking sexy!

Thanks. I got to try out my new Vargus internal threading tool, sweet!

 

[Terry Keeley]

One step forward two steps back as they say.

The router wasn't up to the task, let the magic smoke out after one run. I'm going to put something else in there, I like the mount instead of hand holding it. Dynatron doesn't seem to mind a bit but was hoping for higher rpm, it only spins the wheel to 7500 or so.

Something's slipping badly now, I think it's the one-way bearing. I put more weight on the centrifugal clutch so doubt that's it. I might spend big bucks on a German make or try a needle bearing like Mikey Ross is using.

Good news is the motor collet hung in.

 

[Terry Keeley]

How the heck do distributors justify their prices?

I'm looking at a Ringspann FZ 6202 PP one way bearing, 29.39 euros on their site which is US$35.50:

https://www.ringspann.com/en/produc...n-on-the-outer-ring/internal-freewheels-fz-pp
I talked to the N. American distributor and they have stock but don't sell direct, here we go.

Get a quote from Motion for US$201.39. Shopping Cart

It gets better. One distributor here in Toronto (Wajax) quoted C$348.54 (US$276.26) and another (Canadian Bearings) said C$462.33 (US$366.45).

Bend over Rover!

 

[Steve White]

I must applaud you for sharing all this Terry. Quite an interesting read and the surprises at every juncture are quite unanticipated. Your commitment to the project and determination are commendable, not to mention your machining skills and overall engineering expertise.

Thank you sir - much respect!!!

 

[Ray Sametz]

Hang in there Terry, if only it were this easy!!!!

 

[Terry Keeley]

Ha!

Another crazy Canuck:

 

[LohringMiller]

I second all your sharing. I was thinking of using a one way bearing if I built a new dyno. We were lucky that we didn't use one in our dyno. We copied earlier successful gas engine designs by Mike Hoffmeister and Cornell Cirilia (sp?). The combination of clutch and key isn't as protective if an engine seizes, but otherwise worked well. Aeromarine square inserts wore, but are cheap.

I'm looking forward to the day you get the bugs out and can share data on nitro engines. That will be very valuable to the hobby.

Lohring Miller

 

[Terry Keeley]

Thanks for the encouragement guys, I'm an open book, you get the good, the bad and the ugly, lol.

Thinking some more I've changed my mind, I think it's the centrifugal clutch that's slipping. The one-way bearing is rated for at least ten times the torque put out by the motor.

I think when I added the weight I put them in the wrong place out near the end of the fingers, I should have put them near the middle where it engages.

 

[RaceMechaniX]

Terry, My guess is the router cannot handle the high load at lower speeds. I have two suggestions. Assuming you want to keep a router for the flywheel mass spin up, try using a Variac or small VFD to incrementally increase the voltage to the router motor. This should limit the current and reduce the chance of cooking the stator. Does this router have a viable speed switch on it? If yes, perhaps try starting at the lower end of the range and bump up the speed as the flywheel speed comes up.

A second option is ditching the router motor and using a 1/5 scale car motor and ESC like a Castle Creations 2028 motor and XLX2 controller. You could mount the motor in a similar pinch fixture and control it's ramp up speed. You would need 8S worth of lipo's, two 12V car batteries or a stout 24V supply.

Castle Creations Mamba XLX2 and Castle 2028 motor

 

[Terry Keeley]

Terry, My guess is the router cannot handle the high load at lower speeds. I have two suggestions. Assuming you want to keep a router for the flywheel mass spin up, try using a Variac or small VFD to incrementally increase the voltage to the router motor. This should limit the current and reduce the chance of cooking the stator. Does this router have a viable speed switch on it? If yes, perhaps try starting at the lower end of the range and bump up the speed as the flywheel speed comes up.

A second option is ditching the router motor and using a 1/5 scale car motor and ESC like a Castle Creations 2028 motor and XLX2 controller. You could mount the motor in a similar pinch fixture and control it's ramp up speed. You would need 8S worth of lipo's, two 12V car batteries or a stout 24V supply.

Castle Creations Mamba XLX2 and Castle 2028 motor

Yup my buddy Rudy said the same, I started at the lowest speed which is 10K but it was still too much. It also tries to maintain the rpm which I think would cause the current to spike, it smoked and tripped the 20A breaker.

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll have a look but I'm thinking I'll just mount a Dynatron with a slightly bigger pully to get to the 10K idle speed of the motor. It doesn't seem to have a problem spinning the wheel up letting the belt slip for the first 5K or so...

 

[dwilfong]

How the heck do distributors justify their prices?

I'm looking at a Ringspann FZ 6202 PP one way bearing, 29.39 euros on their site which is US$35.50:

https://www.ringspann.com/en/produc...n-on-the-outer-ring/internal-freewheels-fz-pp
I talked to the N. American distributor and they have stock but don't sell direct, here we go.

Get a quote from Motion for US$201.39. Shopping Cart

It gets better. One distributor here in Toronto (Wajax) quoted C$348.54 (US$276.26) and another (Canadian Bearings) said C$462.33 (US$366.45).

Bend over Rover!

Have you looked at the ones on Ebay?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-PCS-CSK1...264367?hash=item5b230093ef:g:IXoAAOSwZ8ZXB1ybFor the price you could blow one up every run and still be a head.....LOL
Get the 10 pack [10PCS] CSK15PP (15x35x11 mm) One Way Clutch Bearing w/Dual Keyway Groove 6202RS | eBay

 

[Terry Keeley]

Have you looked at the ones on Ebay?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-PCS-CSK1...264367?hash=item5b230093ef:g:IXoAAOSwZ8ZXB1ybFor the price you could blow one up every run and still be a head.....LOL
Get the 10 pack [10PCS] CSK15PP (15x35x11 mm) One Way Clutch Bearing w/Dual Keyway Groove 6202RS | eBay

$6 each, how about $5 each:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-New-CS...657631?hash=item1c87eec99f:g:IJsAAOSwnTdaC7LX
Seriously, how do they make chit that cheap?

The over-running rpm rating for the $5 China bearing is about the same as the German equivalent, 8400 rpm. Load rating for the German bearing is 21 Nm (15.5 ft-lb) and 13.5 Nm (10 ft-lb) for the China copy, a 67 makes about 1 ft-lb at peak. I also just tried to get one to slip by hand, no way. The main concern was it letting go at 25K so it doesn't unscrew the motor collet but I think I've got that fixed.

I think the clutch is slipping, I'll try weights near the middle but if it keeps doing it I might try a Zenoah or CY like Mikey Ross is running, he's run a 14 hp twin on his dyno with one: