Roostertail

[Don Ferrette]

Greed?? What & where do you get that B.S. from??? I have watched race site after race site in this org. get lost from noise complaints in the last few years. I've had to put up with those who would rather find ways to cheat the current rule's intent rather than be a part of the solution. It has been said by certain "board" members it "might" be possible for the 2006 season??? ENOUGH!! If being concerned with the future existence of this sport/hobby is being greedy well then I guess that makes me a greedy S.O.B.!! :angry: :angry:

 

[Mike Neal]

Greed? Mark, you just don't get it. Someone who wants to run without a Db limit because it isn't an issue at his pond -- if there's a greed issue, that's where it resides. That approach will weaken the hobby. Don is on the mark here.

IMPBA is supposed to be about setting national standards so that when I travel to one race, I am not disadvantaged because my local club enforces a noise limit, but the club I am traveling to does not. Yet, John Equi suggests that everything is ok, because a local club can still do what they want with noise limits, even though IMPBA takes a couple of years to get this done. If officials in IMPBA are pushing that line of thinking, then they might want to re-read the mission section of the IMPBA rule book. The part about setting consistent standards for all membership. If we are going to do whatever we want at any pond, why do we need IMPBA other than for insurance?

Also, if the Roostertail is always going to have outdated information in it because of the nature of the publication dates, then why don't a few key leaders of IMPBA get on the 3 or 4 message boards and state their position and approach on this and other key subjects once a month. Part of a leaders responsibility is to communicate what is going on. I'm sure the message board managers would be glad to create a page for the president of IMPBA and NAMBA to provide current updates. For that matter, why not just do it on the IMPBA and NAMBA websites once a month?

 

[Tim Kish]

Do you ever get the feeling your banging your head against a brick wall :blink: .

Tim

 

[mark poole]

You guys sound like Democrats trying to use scare tactics on people. There is this "big" concern now that model boating is in danger because sites are being lost. Quit your whining and move somewhere else. The furture of model boating??? IMPBA was started in 1949. RC came about several years later. Model boating and organized events and clubs have done just fine all this time off the beaten path. Model boating membership and products grew and grew for decades without being a spectator sport and run where they did not bother anybody. How is that. I would say that the old guys had a better idea of what "fostering of model boating" meant. Some of you are trying to reinvent the wheel with model boating instead of just admitting that everyone is not going to want it on X lake. This is an amatuer sport/hobby. Then, there are those of you who want to make it a spectator sport with ONLY one thing in mind......selling your stuff. This is not NASCAR or NHRA. You simply don't have what it takes to block a "concerned taxpayer." Even still, the latest NASCAR tracks to be built and the ones being planned are out in the middle of freaking nowhere.

 

[Don Ferrette]

" You guys sound like Democrats trying to use scare tactics on people...." blah, blah, blah. Go tell it to the guys who don't have a site anymore because of noise complaints. It's just like the old saying -"some people you can't reach" & Mark you are obviously one of them. Don't hand us this crap about 1949 & how everything's been just fine. Times are changing- urban & suburban sprawl are an ugly fact now & those sweet running spots aren't in "the middle of nowhere" anymore. So you choose to be out of touch with reality, that's your problem. It's not a matter of if, it's WHEN this will happen & it will be SOON. So you have 2 choices, get with the program or go find somewhere else to be noisy. And BTW- I'm Republican <_<

 

[Joe_Knesek]

Well, I've been looking for a pond on the east side of Cleveland for 5 years now and noise was brought up each time I met with the land owner. The last once asked me to bring my boat so he could hear it so I brought my 20 mono which has a mufled pipe. After hearing the boat, I didn't get permission to use the pond.

I travel 40 miles one way just to practice. I live in a metro area and can't find a pond. Don't tell me we don't have a noise problem.

 

[_laxmasta2039]

mark,

dont mean ta burst your bubble or anything but um, this isnt a conspiracy to sell stuff to innocent passerbys. ask anyone who races with don [including myself] at odmba, and they'll tell you that not once has he tried to sell boating equipment to the handful of people who come by. its more about MOST of the people involved in the sport recognizing that times HAVE changed, and recognizing that rc boat racing has to change with it. it wont hurt anyone to quiet your boat down, but it'll hurt alot of people if you dont, so why not go ahead and do it?

i wasnt gonna get involved again till you started hatin on Dems <_< ...if i sound like one it's cuz i am one

 

[AndyBrown]

MACS, Irwin, Picco, Rossi, CMB, Preswhich, OPS, K&B, Steve Muck, Nova Rossi, Internation Products, Prather, Rum Racing, and some others.

These are names of companies that have been producing Muffled pipes and/or add-on Mufflers for many years. Many where producing Mufflled pipes for years before I ever started boat racing 26 years ago and ALL of them where making muffled pipes long before I got into the pipe business.

When most of the IMPBA Dist. 3 membership including tthe IMPBA dist. 3 Director went NAMBA a few years ago, I was approached by the IMPBA president and asked to please step in as Dist. 3 director, at first I declined, becuase it has been my policy to not be involed in any political position because of my involment in the business of r/c boats. The President was insistent, so considering that dist. 3 now only had few active IMPBA members I agreed to take on the position temporerily.

I had started building Nitro pipes and Muffled pipes a short time before this.

During the time that I was the Dist. 3 director the IMPBA voted for a muffler rule.

At that time some boaters accused me of forcing the muffler rule for my own monatary gain. There are some out there that still think this is the case.

And so be it, they can think what they want. I have been in the R/C boat business full time for 18 years. I do it because I love it. If it was for money I would do something different. I will gladly trade my income for that last 18 year with 95% of the IMPBA membership and be Very happy with the Trade. Even today 75% of the IMPBA membership would not be happy to trade incomes with me.

I now make Muffled pipes ONLY for one main reason and one secondary reason.

#1 they ARE FASTER.

#2 I like the Quiet.

If it were for money I would make Nitro pipes, because the profit margin is higer,

then sell you an Add-on muffler later when someone tells you to quite that thing down.

I just don't know where this idea of Greed comes from. To produce an R/C Boat Racing product that someone wants to BUY takes a tremendous amount of effort.

Because what Wins on Sunday Sells on Monday and if it don't win you can't give it away. And to produce a Winning product takes more effort than most would or could, ever do.

Today the boaters that Buy my pipes, Buy them because they want the performance that it adds to their engine, Not because the IMPBA told them to.

If they where looking to buy a muffled pipe because the IMPBA told them they HAD to, I can direct them to shops that have boxes full of muffled pipes that they would love to sell at any price.

 

[TimD]

I now make Muffled pipes ONLY for one main reason and one secondary reason.#1 they ARE FASTER.

#2 I like the Quiet.

Well put Andy.

I think you stated your case pretty well and it seems clear that you are not basing your opinion on financial gain. Unfortunately others have not been so forthcoming in the past!

I personally have always been of the belief that people with a financial interest shouldn't be involved in rule making - (just ask Paul Stirton - we were on a committee together) I held off taking up a committee position until I no longer had any financial ties with the hobby business.

I saw it wreck car racing in the past.

Tim.

 

[Bart Drieghe]

I DON'T GET IT WHY a DB LIMIT is so darn bad :angry: :angry: :angry: , i mean , some are whining about 90 DB while we have in pretty much 90% of Europe 80 DB . And even then its hard to keep your pond !!!!!! :unsure:

I'm sorry but i can't follow some guys sometimes , we are having those limits for quite some years now ,and yes , in the beginning its an adjustment ( wich i never had cause i'm doing boating for 8 years now ) but after a while its a common thing !

And , why not make it completely general , not like this state so much and this state no rule , no no , everywhere the same , everybody the same rules , its the fairest way for everyone.

Some people have no idea how annoyed people can get after hearing every weekend , the same loud noise while they want to barbeque, their afternoonsleep , etc. ( and those are the first ones to start nagging about it , i can tell you )

We got a saying in Belgium and it goes like this ,

Its better to PREVENT than to heal .

Just think of it ,

Regards ,

Bart

 

[Guest_Joe W]

DON, You can talk till you Ass Falls Off. Everyone is not going to see it your way about the Db Limit. I see a lot of post, I know you went 108 last month at a Speed trail with a Andy Brown Combo Boat. Your CD for that event is saying you were @ 108 Mph One way Pass, (A huge feat No Doubt) NO Two Way Pass. No record. No patch? But the Point is He says you were Over 100DB? What pipe were you running & What mods were done to it? Why are you on here preaching 92 Db and Your Largest pass to date was Over 100DB? Now Before you question my sources. They are Pretty Good & they were at the Event. Also I have seen Andy stand at Races in Slidell and Speak PRO MUFFLER At the Drivers meetings.. But I did not understand why he would put his self in that position. But it has Happened...... if your muffler is Faster Strap it on the boat & Lets Race. The arging and the Bickering Never Brought Boaters back to the Pond Either..... NO one ever Got Rich or Famous Racing Model Boats..... I do it for fun & it Does Not Pay MY Bills....... Dist 5 race boat counts have been off 50 Percent in 2003 due to the Questions & B.S. on Mufflers all the arguing & bickering. I use to race with several Boaters that Now choose to stay home other than Attend a Race @ Argue about WHAT YOU GOT TO DO about Your NOISE.. WHEN YOU TALK LOST PONDS. TALK RACES SITES & INSURED LAKES. NOT PRACTICE LAKES THAT MOST HAVE NO PERMISSON TO RUN ON..... IMPBA IS ABOUT ORGANIZED RACING. NOT LOCAL PONDS IN OUR LOCAL AREA. LOST POND DEAL HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR ABOUT 20 YEARS NOW. HOW MANY PONDS CAN IMPBA GET BACK due to NOW WE HAVE A DB RULE????? I BET NONE.......... BECAUSE THEY WHERE REALLY LOST DUE TO OTHER REASONS BEYOND NOISE? Dont take this as a personal Attack..... I have Respect for Yourself & Andy. & I been reading this thread for a while.. & Some are Very Misleading..... The Muffler Deal has been debated too Death. Lets just get back to Racing.........

 

[mark poole]

Ok i will be the first one to reverse course here and ask questions instead of just typing my mind. I have several questions....but for starters....just what does a DB meter "hear" and how do you enforce a limit at a race using this tool?

 

[Bill Zuber]

Don I am not against setting a new rule BUT I do want it to go out to the membership for a vote it should be up to the majority of the members will ing to cast a ballot not just voice thier opinions on the websites.

Plus the rule needs to be able to be enforced across all of the IMPBA clubs and also enforced easily by the clubs without too much burden laid onto the clubs or their members.

If you look back in the histroy of the board I had a District Four member request I introduce a proposal for reducing noise as an optional rule similar to the one the Gas rule have now. But the board in 1995 at Toledo didn't even let it go forward to the membership since it was simialr to the rule John Equi had worked up prior to 1995. The Florida members almost got into a physical fight at the board meeting held in Florida. The Florida members sealed their own fate when they voted down the first attempt at quiteing down model boats.

John is working on a new rule at the request of the IMPBA board and it will be going out for a membership vote in time to be implmented for the 2005 racing season as long as the majority of the members vote for it.

 

[Randy Rapedius]

Yes Joe. Ponds can come back.

I recently spoke to a Park Supervisor who kicked us off his pond around 8 years ago because of noise complaints. I explained that we now run mufflers and the boats are much quieter. He has asked that we bring a few boats out in the Spring for a show and has even hinted at us having a sanctioned race.

FYI ................... Randy

 

[Chris Thomas]

I think this subject is a lot "touchier" than it should be. I feel some people are taking the other side of the noise issue because they are not affected by the recourse. The hobby is not cheap-inexpensive-or for the meek. Face it you pay thirty plus dollars for fuel!! Alternative muffling is not going to hurt the hobby. Upsetting the surrounding residents WILL bring a halt to the local racing and/or testing. ie- you won't need the muffler (or boat).

I also believe that by clubs enforcing their own, at least less than or equal to the posted-proposed 90 dB level, will get the experimenters into developement mode. "Neccessity is the mother of invention". Everybody was dragging their feet back when they required no open headers, megaphones, etc. Look where the sport is today. Would you think of running without a tuned pipe? I personally think that the level should be less than the proposed 90 dB level. How many of the old timers have hearing problems, let alone problems with the neighbors?

 

[Mike Saleeby]

to Joe W.

Don't know who gave you the info on Don Ferretes boat at the SAW, but his facts are WRONG. Don and I were the only ones there with DB meters, and I never metered his boat so whoever told you that his boat was @ 100 DB's is just pulling a number out of his butt with nothing to back it up. Had I measured his setup, rest assured it would have been under 92DB's, It is that quiet. Don can be a bit vocal at times, but he is truthful. Who ever your "source" is needs to get his facts straight before making untruthful statements. Im kinda at a loss as to who your "source" is since I know everybody that attended the event and can't possibly imagine who would have given you bad info. Oh well. Some folks have grudges, real or imagined.

take care

mike saleeby

 

[Don Ferrette]

Well Joe I don't know who your great source was but they are full of it & what you have posted about my SAW boat is totally non factual. You are basically saying I'm either a liar or you think I'd be stupid enough to argue the need for quieting the boats down then go to a well publicized event like record trials & not practice what I preach. I take offense to both so let's clear it up-

1- I wasn't at ANY record trials last month (which would have been Huntsville). The SAW I ran was at the beginning of November at Elizabeth City, N.C.

2- I ran two different pipes that weekend in Elizabeth City, the Brown 67 parabolic & a 13cc Mac with add on large bore Prather muffler (they make two sizes). The parabolic had a drilled out stinger (to .430) & the 13cc Mac pipe & Prather muffler were stone stock. BTW- the Prather muffler is a solid casing, no screws to allow it to be taken apart & tampered with.

3- In the over a month of testing & practices getting ready for SAW these two pipes never metered out over 91dB (the Mac/Prather combo was the louder of the two)

4- The only people at the Elizabeth City SAW who had dB meters was Mike Saleeby & myself. Mike already told me he didn't meter my boat, he was more concerned with what the gas boats were coming in at as he feels they will be harder pressed to meet a limit lower than 92dB without some better pipe development for gas engines. I didn't need to meter my boat, I already knew how loud it wasn't.

So before you get on here trash talking make sure you have your facts straight. This kind of stuff being posted will only make me speak louder & more often as this type of dis-information & misleading statements is exactly what we don't need. I've never said I would convince everyone why this is needed, that would be a waste of time as some posts here have already proven.

As for racing, you'll get your chance with me at the Internats in Tennessee this year. You'll get to see alot of what my muffled pipes look like as you'll spend plenty of time viewing my boats from behind as you chase me around the pond. Then after a hard days racing we can argue/debate/agree to disagree about mufflers over a few cold beers.......

 

[Terry Keeley]

Think if I'm in a heat with you two I'll just cruise around and watch

 

[Preston_Hall]

Your CD for that event is saying you were @ 108 Mph One way Pass, (A huge feat No Doubt) NO Two Way Pass. No record. No patch? But the Point is He says you were Over 100DB?

Joe_W,

I was the CD and I said no such thing.

You should end this discussion here because IMPBA will evenyually have a db rule and certain people just won't be running in NAMBA or IMPBA. HAHA!

 

[Don Ferrette]

Think if I'm in a heat with you two I'll just cruise around and watch 

You're too funny Terry! :lol: No grudge here, I'll let the boats do the talkin'! B)

BTW- I heard you've has some pretty awesome results recently with the internal stingers you started messin' with a couple months back. You should share it.......