Resin for carbon tuned pipe?

[jaxracer]

Hey guys,

Interested at trying my hand molding a tuned pipe out of carbon. Any recommendations on a high temp resin that will withstand the exhaust heat of our nitro motors? I saw some out there rated for 350 degrees but didn’t think that would be near high enough. Any suggestions would be a big help.

Much appreciated!

 

[Terry Keeley]

Been thinking about this too. Found this but apparently it's unobtanium:

http://www.high-temperature-composi...osites-and-fire-barriers-pyrosic-pyrokarb.htm

 

[ricwally]

I think that the EPA has pretty much made any resin that you are looking for obsolete here in the US. I have talked to Jeremy Wooster with SPP about this issue in Australia also. He says that he is still getting it there. But, pricing and availability is higher and more limited now.

 

[Wasted wages]

What's up with the EPA restrictions?
Emissions related?

 

[jaxracer]

After a very tedious Google search I came across this company in Texas. Thoughts on if any of their products would work?

https://www.jetlube.com/deacon

 

[Brandon Atwell]

Been looking at products also, would it be possible to use an easier to find high- heat resin (up to 600 farenheit), utilize a two- piece mold and use a high heat sealant (up to 1300 Fahrenheit) on the inside of the pipes to increase heat resistance?

 

[ricwally]

I really can't help you on that. I am just going off of what Brian Buass has told me. The reason he discontinued making any pipes was because of resin availability. Last he spoke of was some type ceramic application. The concern there was possibility of flaking.

 

[ACTION JACKSON]

I was only wondering if has anybody thought of making a ceramic pipe

 

[RonShaw]

Hey guys,

Interested at trying my hand molding a tuned pipe out of carbon. Any recommendations on a high temp resin that will withstand the exhaust heat of our nitro motors? I saw some out there rated for 350 degrees but didn’t think that would be near high enough. Any suggestions would be a big help.

Much appreciated!

Brandon,
Reach out to Carl. He is now making his own carbon pipes now and it looks as though the material he is using is a very high quality. I looked at this years ago and found the website below very helpful. Good luck.

https://www.compositesone.com

 

[brad nichols]

Try ACP Composites as they had a resin good for 500*

Brad

 

[Terry Keeley]

Try ACP Composites as they had a resin good for 500*

Brad

https://4089920.app.netsuite.com/co...688&c=4089920&h=988fa50a3cc31aed4348&_xt=.pdf

 

[Mike Rappold]

I have been using product from Cotronics Corp. for making pipes for 21 size engines. It is a room temperature cure Epoxy that is good to 500 deg. I do post cure treat it in an oven as directed to bring to full strength. It is thicker than a normal laminating type epoxy but does work. As a result is a little more unique to work with. I do vacuum bag the pipe sections - which I do think helps with the thicker epoxy.
http://www.cotronics.com/vo/cotr/pdf/4461.pdf

 

[Terry Keeley]

Looks like they have some others that are good to 650F:

http://www.cotronics.com/vo/cotr/ea_ultratemp.htm
The 4460 looks interesting.

Got any pics of your post cure oven? Can you post pics of your pipe(s)?

 

[Mike Rappold]

Terry,
The CF pipes I have made have only been 21 size so far. For an oven I use a small Paragon Kiln my wife has that has now been "re-purposed" to the RC engine program. It it just large enough to fit a fully assembled pipe. The kiln is overkill as the post cure is only 250 deg F for 4 hours for the Cotronics 4461 epoxy. For large pipes I will need to come up with something else.

For making the pipes, I first 3D print the molds. The carbon fiber is braided sleeve(s) that goes on the outside of the mold. Each section is vacuumed bagged. Once out of the bag, the parts are eventually popped off the molds and then placed in the oven for 4 hours. After that they are trimmed to size, some light finishing on the outside, and the the sections glued together. I currently make the pipes in 3 sections. This allows me to play with some dimensions/angles for each section without having to make a new mold each time. After the epoxy used to glue the sections together has cured some, the assembled pipe is place in the oven again for 4 hrs to cure.. The pipe is done after that. I am using a telescoping header and aluminum insert for the stinger.

Attached are a few photos.


Mike

 

[Terry Keeley]

Very nice Mike!

I know nothing about 3D printing but was thinking that would be a cool way to do it, great minds think alike, lol.

I'm already seeing temps north of 800F a couple inches from the piston, I see you're using an aluminum header but the drag cars only run a few seconds, right? I was thinking I might make the first 5-6" section from aluminum and bag CF over that? You posted you were getting 550-650F in the belly of your MAC 67 so that resin shud be OK there.

I see the full size kart/bike guys put a lot of worth in material and "ping factor", ie: mild steel, stainless, titanium etc. Is there any "adjustments" in EngMod2T for material? Carbon?

 

[ALLAN YUEN]

Terry,
The CF pipes I have made have only been 21 size so far. For an oven I use a small Paragon Kiln my wife has that has now been "re-purposed" to the RC engine program. It it just large enough to fit a fully assembled pipe. The kiln is overkill as the post cure is only 250 deg F for 4 hours for the Cotronics 4461 epoxy. For large pipes I will need to come up with something else.

For making the pipes, I first 3D print the molds. The carbon fiber is braided sleeve(s) that goes on the outside of the mold. Each section is vacuumed bagged. Once out of the bag, the parts are eventually popped off the molds and then placed in the oven for 4 hours. After that they are trimmed to size, some light finishing on the outside, and the the sections glued together. I currently make the pipes in 3 sections. This allows me to play with some dimensions/angles for each section without having to make a new mold each time. After the epoxy used to glue the sections together has cured some, the assembled pipe is place in the oven again for 4 hrs to cure.. The pipe is done after that. I am using a telescoping header and aluminum insert for the stinger.

Attached are a few photos.


Mike

Look nice good job also are you work for hobbies drag car ?and. Will you sell C/F 21 pipe ? Let me know thanks

 

[brad nichols]

Great job on the pipes, They look very good!!

Brad

 

[Mike Rappold]

Terry,
EngMod2T does not have anything specific for the pipe material. You do have inputs for pipe temperature for a few points.

This where the Dyno would be great to test a few different pipe materials on the same pipe design.

Mike

 

[Buckshot]

Terry,
EngMod2T does not have anything specific for the pipe material. You do have inputs for pipe temperature for a few points.

This where the Dyno would be great to test a few different pipe materials on the same pipe design.

Mike

Very cool Mike!!! Always enjoy seeing your builds.
When you vacuum bag the sections are doing a wet layup or infusion? I just started playing with composites and have vacuum infused some parts. Cool stuff.

 

[Carl Van Houten]

Mike,

You have a nice looking pipe. I have played with carbon pipes for a couple of years now and people don't realize how time consuming they are to manufacture. Your method is quite different from mine and mainly because your making individual tubular sections. I too have vacuum bagged using the two sheets method and sanding the residual material crease that the bags leave can get tiring if you make many of them. I have used some of Cotronics products in the past.

Does your 4461 epoxy have an initial ambient temperature cure prior to your post cure?

Your work is very nice. Thanks for sharing.
-Carl